[DavidA]

yeah, that's sort of how I felt about the HD650 compared to the HE400i.  With the Lyr2 and just the right tubes, I really liked the HD650, but even then it was still relatively even with the HE400i.  However, the HE400i was way more versatile amp wise.  The HE400i could be at 90% of it's potential straight out of an iPhone, and 99% out of the Schitt Fulla.  The HD650 didn't pass 90% until it was setup with the Bifrost 4490 and Lyr2.  And even then I'd say the HE400i fought the HD650 to a draw.  I think sometimes people on here think a headphone is trash unless it requires a nuclear power generator to sound its best.  To me the great genius of the HE400i is it sounds incredible out of almost any well made amp.  In a lot of ways I think the HE400i benefits more from being fed a quality DAC than a super powerful amp.  

Agree with most of what you are saying, only thing I found is that the HD-650 will scale much more than the HE-400i and pass it but you are way into diminishing returns territory.  As you say the beauty of the HE-400i is that it sounds good on almost anything where the HD-650 needs a good supporting cast to achieve what it is capable of.
 
Quote:

 
I think of the HE560 as a "diagonal" move.  This is a term I use for a headphone that is objectively better in many ways, but is also different enough that it also comes down to preferences.  I can appreciate that the HE560 has a bit better soundstage layering, better treble micro detail, slightly better bass texture.  However, I prefer the sound signature of the HE400i, and it's warmer fuller presentation for most of the music I listen to on a consistent basis.  

Same here with the HE-560, yes its does almost everything better than the HE-400i but its like the HD-650, a little more though needs to the rest of your audio chain.  And to a point it is also a preference in the sound signature that the individual likes.

 

[Sonic Defender]

 
I think of the HE560 as a "diagonal" move.  This is a term I use for a headphone that is objectively better in many ways, but is also different enough that it also comes down to preferences.  I can appreciate that the HE560 has a bit better soundstage layering, better treble micro detail, slightly better bass texture.  However, I prefer the sound signature of the HE400i, and it's warmer fuller presentation for most of the music I listen to on a consistent basis.  

I would agree, I had an extremely well driven 560 for more than a year and I think a case can be made for the 400i being slightly more enjoyable, but that is both a tough call and highly subjective. I like that the 400i treble was a little softer than the 560, not much, but noticeable, and I like that it has a little more mid-bass impact, at least that is what I thought. The 560 compared to the 400i is like the TH 900 compared to the TH 600, better and more accomplished, but not so much so that the difference justifies price nor does it mean everybody can agree. I can see people preferring the 400i and to a lesser extent some preferring the TH 600 over the 900, but I do think with a decent system the TH 900 is more noticeably better than the 560 is compared to the 400i. Hope that makes sense?
 
I also think the 400i is excellent for electronica to answer a question about 8 posts back.

 

[qrtas]

I think of the HE560 as a "diagonal" move.  This is a term I use for a headphone that is objectively better in many ways, but is also different enough that it also comes down to preferences.  I can appreciate that the HE560 has a bit better soundstage layering, better treble micro detail, slightly better bass texture.  However, I prefer the sound signature of the HE400i, and it's warmer fuller presentation for most of the music I listen to on a consistent basis.  

Very interesting comment. I have never auditioned the 560, nor the 400i. However, I placed an order for 400i instead of the 560 because from what I have red, it seams it iike the 400i will suit my preference (warmer fuller sound). The 560 might be technically better, but in the end to me it comes dawn to naturalness in the sound. I might never know the difference between the 2, but I think I made the right choice.

 

[520RanchBro]

 
I think of the HE560 as a "diagonal" move.  This is a term I use for a headphone that is objectively better in many ways, but is also different enough that it also comes down to preferences.  I can appreciate that the HE560 has a bit better soundstage layering, better treble micro detail, slightly better bass texture.  However, I prefer the sound signature of the HE400i, and it's warmer fuller presentation for most of the music I listen to on a consistent basis.  

 
I think diagonal is a good way to put it. Not everyone will see it as a true upgrade (hell, some people don't even see the HE-X as a true upgrade to the 400i) but in my specific case I think it is. I love how focused and mid-forward the 400i is, it just excels at just about any genre of music that uses distorted guitars and male vocals sound especially clean and natural on them.
 
After listening to the 560 though, the 400i sounds more congested and not quite as natural. I generally hate using the word natural as its meaning is different to everyone but it just sounds like every part of the music has its own space and they are separated in a way that makes them distinct but not distant sounding. The better sense of space and treble energy set it clearly apart from the 400i in my experience. The mids are not quite as strong but not at all recessed like on the 400.
 
The 400i has a slightly better signature for rock, punk, doom and death metal but I don't think it's enough to warrant me having both.
 
I'm still very early on in to my impressions and these things could change but for me, the 560 was a clear upgrade to the 400i. It's also a bit easier to say that because I got the 560 for $450 used and the 400i was $350 used when I bought it, so only $100 difference between the two in my case. I wouldn't say the 560 is worth a move from the 400i if you're purchasing it new.

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
I think diagonal is a good way to put it. Not everyone will see it as a true upgrade (hell, some people don't even see the HE-X as a true upgrade to the 400i) but in my specific case I think it is. I love how focused and mid-forward the 400i is, it just excels at just about any genre of music that uses distorted guitars and male vocals sound especially clean and natural on them.
 
After listening to the 560 though, the 400i sounds more congested and not quite as natural.

Completely agree, the music you listen to most of the time should be a factor. It has been said that music such as jazz or acoustic music, or music where micro detail and instrument separation is prominent should favour the 560 and I would agree, but again to a point. The 560 can push some high frequencies a little much at times where the 400i steps those back a tad. However; as you rightly noted, compared to the 560 the 400i has a slight congestion or thickness of body that with some music is a positive, and with other music less so. Really both are excellent choices and for $100 difference it is hard to not see the 560 as a solid choice.

 

[NoOneLt]

Hi everyone,
 
By a terrible mistake i got original Hifiman crystaline but with coax (like this but coax  http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/cables/crystalline-cable.html) i don't think i'll be able to sell it for any descent price so i think about reterminating to 2.5mm. Maybe someone came into quality 2.5 mm connectors i can get in Europe online?  Also i don't think there should be any problem after changing connectors?
 
BR, and thanks in advance.

 

[WayTooCrazy]

  Hi everyone,
 
By a terrible mistake i got original Hifiman crystaline but with coax (like this but coax  http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/cables/crystalline-cable.html) i don't think i'll be able to sell it for any descent price so i think about reterminating to 2.5mm. Maybe someone came into quality 2.5 mm connectors i can get in Europe online?  Also i don't think there should be any problem after changing connectors?
 
BR, and thanks in advance.

Switchcraft 850x

 

[chowmein83]

  Really both are excellent choices and for $100 difference it is hard to not see the 560 as a solid choice.

 
Wait, where can you get the 560 for only $100 more than the 400i? (I'm going to assume this is comparing to the 400i at $500 USD.)

 

[520RanchBro]

   
Wait, where can you get the 560 for only $100 more than the 400i? (I'm going to assume this is comparing to the 400i at $500 USD.)

We're talking used here. I bought both my 400i and 560 from head-fi members. My 400i was $350 and this was about a year ago before the new connectors and the black Friday prices. I've seen them go for less now but it was a fair price at the time.
 
I bought the 560 last week for $450 as it was used, had the old connectors, and had a small crack near the connection on one of the cups. Mint and excellent condition 560s seem to go for about 500-550 on eBay.

 

[chowmein83]

  We're talking used here. I bought both my 400i and 560 from head-fi members. My 400i was $350 and this was about a year ago before the new connectors and the black Friday prices. I've seen them go for less now but it was a fair price at the time.
 
I bought the 560 last week for $450 as it was used, had the old connectors, and had a small crack near the connection on one of the cups. Mint and excellent condition 560s seem to go for about 500-550 on eBay.

 
Thanks for the clarification, that makes much more sense than the 560 suddenly dropping to $450 new.

 

[520RanchBro]

   
Thanks for the clarification, that makes much more sense than the 560 suddenly dropping to $450 new.

If it was $450 new I'd be screaming for everyone to go get a pair, they are awesome! If I was only buying headphones at new prices, I'd probably have stuck with the 400i.

 

[hdablin]

Sorry for a silly question: do I need an amp to drive them? Can I use my iPhone as a source without an amp?

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Sorry for a silly question: do I need an amp to drive them? Can I use my iPhone as a source without an amp?

Not very well, can and should are different things. I would think the 400i would be poorly driven by any phone unless you listen very quietly and don't care about dynamics. I know that I drove my 400i with a DP-X1 in balanced which was 150mW. It was surprisingly good, but not ideal. I guess if the phone could put out somewhere near 100mW of power that was fairly clean it would do okay.

 

[fjrabon]

  Sorry for a silly question: do I need an amp to drive them? Can I use my iPhone as a source without an amp?

depends on how loudly you listen.

 

[qrtas]

Sorry for a silly question: do I need an amp to drive them? Can I use my iPhone as a source without an amp?

It depends. To me, and I know to many people here, an amp is not just to give your headphones more volume. These headphones are very efficient and a phone will give you plenty of volume. Unless you want to blow your ears. If fact, I use amps with my headphones, so I can listen to them at lower volume levels. I know this probably doesn't make a lot of sense, but let me explain. A low power source player, like your phone, can't give your headphones a dinamic sound, punchy bass, good instrument separation, airiness, etc. In order to get some of that (not perfect), you need to increase the volume of your phone. So in a way, it is more fun listening experience. The drawback is that it comes accompanied with lots of distortion.

When I listen to a headphone connected to a good amp, a get good dinamics and all those things I mentioned above at lower volume levels. In other words you get the fun factor and better sound and at the same time protecting your ears.

To me, some may not agree, driving well a headphone is not about volume levels, specially with a very high efficient headphones like the he400i. Driving well a headphone is unleashing its full sound potential.

Honestly, and I have tried this, a tiny apple clip shuffle gives me a lot of volume levels to my hd600 for example, but the sound is very distorted, very flat and boring.

I guess everyone have different definitions of what an amp does to audio in general, but this are my 2 cents