[Lurk650]

You are not the first and nor will you be the last that "psychologically" assumes that more expensive is always better

While on the subject of the "psychological" effect of assumption, I'm selling some cables that have been sprinkled with angle dust and infused with the magical elixir of Drogon's blood. These cable will transform any headphone from bottom of the line to TOTL and can be yours for the bargain price of "one million dollars" as Dr Evil likes to say

PS: hope everyone is having a great start to the weekend, TGIF

Is it 45 Degree or 90 Degree "Angle" Dust?

I owned the 7xx and got rid of it, was comfy but had no bass whatsoever, EDM was severely lacking with it, the 400i on the other hand can come off as not full sounding but has enough oomph to pass for my tastes

 

[Brahmsian]

What's the proper burn in time?

reduce sibilance

Female vocals don't sound right on the 400i, which remain prone to sibilance even after burn in, so I sold my pair. With instrumental music, however, sibilance was not a problem. Based on that, I ordered the he560 a couple of days ago.

 

[Lurk650]

Female vocals don't sound right on the 400i, which remain prone to sibilance even after burn in, so I sold my pair. With instrumental music, however, sibilance was not a problem. Based on that, I ordered the he560 a couple of days ago.

I'd say source issues maybe, female vocals sound fantastic with good intelligibility to my ears

 

[Slim1970]

Is it 45 Degree or 90 Degree "Angle" Dust?

I owned the 7xx and got rid of it, was comfy but had no bass whatsoever, EDM was severely lacking with it, the 400i on the other hand can come off as not full sounding but has enough oomph to pass for my tastes

That’s the same reason I parted ways with the 7xx’s. They were completely lifeless and had no low end whatsoever to my ears. The 400i’s are definitely a step up from 7xx’s in sonic signature. I have mine outfitted with Ori pads and they are a joy to listen too.

 

[Brahmsian]

I'd say source issues maybe, female vocals sound fantastic with good intelligibility to my ears

Possibly. Some people hear the sibilance and some don't. Might also be due to quality control issues.

 

[DavidA]

Is it 45 Degree or 90 Degree "Angle" Dust?

I owned the 7xx and got rid of it, was comfy but had no bass whatsoever, EDM was severely lacking with it, the 400i on the other hand can come off as not full sounding but has enough oomph to pass for my tastes

Tinkerbell didn't specify the type of angel dust

 

[dweaver]

The 400i is on sale at Visions for $298 in Canada right now.

 

[Lurk650]

Possibly. Some people hear the sibilance and some don't. Might also be due to quality control issues.

I think it's source/amp dependent. Some people call these bright but I don't hear that, pronounced upper treble yes but I've heard way brighter that hurt my ears.

 

[DavidA]

I think it's source/amp dependent. Some people call these bright but I don't hear that, pronounced upper treble yes but I've heard way brighter that hurt my ears.

Possibly. Some people hear the sibilance and some don't. Might also be due to quality control issues.

Probably a little of all of the above: source, amp, ones hearing, headphones being compared to, QC, and version.
If the HD600 is what most would consider "neutral" I would say the HE400i is slightly bright when I compared them and the HE400i can be a touch sibilant to for me while the HD600 which has a slight peak at 4-5kh is also a bit irritating to me with some tracks.

 

[peter123]

Some people here are incorrect regarding the K712 Pro. Claiming that the K712 Pro is thin or lacking bass is completely untrue. In fact, the K712 Pro has more bass than a stock and unmodded HE400i, without question. I know this, as I own both headphones.

LMAO, I don't believe that some people can be incorrect about what those some people hear

Welcome to the subjective world of audio.

 

[siberianmoon]

Some people here are incorrect regarding the K712 Pro. Claiming that the K712 Pro is thin or lacking bass is completely untrue. In fact, the K712 Pro has more bass than a stock and unmodded HE400i, without question. I know this, as I own both headphones.

I think it could boil down to sub-bass vs. "mid-bass". Granted, I don't own either one of the cans, but I do own K812 and HE560. Between them the bass is surprisingly similar – I would even say identical. Except for the sub-bass. There just aren't so many songs with considerable sub-bass that it would hit you in the face straight from the first time trying the cans. But HE400i has smaller magnets so maybe it has less power in bass region. And K812 is said to have more bass than the 700-series cans. (I used to own K701 so I know it's very thin.)

It is a little surprising that the HE560s move a lot of air but it doesn't really have an impact in audible performance. I can feel the air move when I open the cans and bring them near to my face. It is a funny feeling.

 

[drwlf]

LMAO, I don't believe that some people can be incorrect about what those some people hear

Welcome to the subjective world of audio.

Yeah, YMMV etc., along with definitions for bass, it's quite vague, isn't it? I do consider sub-bass part of bass as well. An extremely important one as well - a mid-bass hump can be achieved with any driver.

@DW75 I don't have the K712 here now.

Did a 5 minute ear-volume matched ass-test with 400i, China Q701, Austria 702AE. Threw in HD650, Austria K612 and LCD-X for the hell of it.


Jon Hopkins - The Low Places, IDM/Downtempo, my go-to test track if I have time for just one song. You'll probably understand why if you listen to the whole track.
Technicalities of K7xx-line show. Mid-bass has the evident hump, and this gives dynamic driver 'weight' to the bass, but as sub-bass is rolled off vs. the 400i, the synthesized bass as an instrument loses texture, almost to the point of not calling it as an "instrument". The 400i does a good job portraying the bass as an instrument.
400i has 'weight' as well, but in a normal planar-way. These differences have been discussed here and on other places before, regarding the technologies and how they produce the sound, different descriptions for weight - the kick, punch, slam, rumble, tactileness, palpability have a difference when it comes to dynamic drivers vs. planars.
Both the 400i and K7xx-line are 'thin' in comparison to the LCD-X, but in a different way.

David Maxim Micic - Nostalgia, Djent/Prog-metalish, unbelievably low tuned bass. Lovely track to test standing waves/room resonances.
Distortion in the bass is evident in the K7xx-line compared to 400i, and it has a certain warmth, pleasant and a liquid feeling. It textures nicely due to the distortion - listen to these on the HD650 and you *know* this song has been mixed with those. It's a speaker-like presentation.
400i and LCD-X 'reveal' the true nature of the bass texture, and it might not be as pleasant to the ear as with the K7xx/HD650.

Lorn - Dipped Into Poison, IDM, face-melting sub-bass.
You probably get a face-melting experience with the K7xx/HD650 and 400i with this song, along with the properties I mentioned above, but try them on an LCD-X, and you'll know what face-melting truly feels like. The 400i and K7xx sound thin, and even anemic by comparison.

The K612 is a joke with all of these tracks, if I want to hear textured bass

If somebody doesn't listen to music with textured sub-bass, I can understand why the "K7xx-line doesn't lack bass, without a question".
The measurements/statements I mentioned above support my quick ass-test - it's also a matter of preference, as bass as a range is quite large, and the nuances are endless.
I'm standing behind my statement that K7xx does not do bass "better" than the 400i.

Edit: -room

 

[drwlf]

@siberianmoon Hi, nice to meet me.

 

[drwlf]

@siberianmoon where from Finland btw? The Finnish Head-Fi'ers are quite few and far between
Thank god it's Saturday, groceries, some good music, friends, wine and food later in the evening! I know @DavidA appreciates this

 

[GirgleMirt]

Some people here are incorrect regarding the K712 Pro. Claiming that the K712 Pro is thin or lacking bass is completely untrue. In fact, the K712 Pro has more bass than a stock and unmodded HE400i, without question. I know this, as I own both headphones.

I've argued similarly for the Q701. I think siberianmoon is correct with sub bass vs mid bass. "better" and "more bass" are rather subjective, and I don't think anyone would argue that the 400i bass goes deeper & is more textured/accurate than the AKGs (well at least Q701). But having both Q701 and 400i and alternating between both, IMHO, you'd have to be drunk to claim that the 400i sounds warmer than the Q701. (Although it might be possible to find some tracks with low and sub bass and very little mid bass, which might give the opposite impression... But that would certainly be a challenge...)

But that said and FWIW. IMHO, alternating on a dozen tracks, the Q701 will sound warmer. Might well be because of the midbass hump, distortion because of the dynamic nature, etc., but they give a warmth* to the sound that the more clinical 400i does not. The 400i bass can 'hit', goes lower and is definitely present, but in relation to its own mids & highs, the bass sounds more recessed/balanced on the 400i than on the AKG. The Q701's (mid) bass is more pronounced and will sound warmer than the 400i, which has a more neutral/bright sound in comparison.

warmth*: That the bass is emphasized and will be in greater amounts relative to the mids & highs.