[AxelCloris]

I am not criticizing their offer, I am just saying that it is not a beta test at all.
 
Sometimes one has to call a cat a cat, and this really is a discount offer with a trial period bundled in.

 
I'm not sure how this doesn't qualify as a beta. During the alpha stage of development a company is voicing and designing the product. The beta period is often used to test implementation and build quality. In software development it's when you find and squash any bugs that are exposed, in hardware testing it's much the same idea. By sending out a handful of beta units to testers they can find out if there's any issues with the construction or durability of the design. And as was mentioned before these are expensive headphones and people may contemplate keeping them without prior authorization. A deposit is a great way for HiFiMan to make sure they receive the beta units back from testing.
 

---

 
I'm going to agree with Alchemist and say that anything shared in PM between potential testers and HiFiMan should not be shared in a public forum such as this. By replying to the initial PM and confirming interest in being a beta tester, even if you choose not to continue upon learning additional details, you've agreed to what is effectively a verbal non-disclosure agreement. When anyone is contacted about potentially testing a product there's an unspoken agreement that details should not be discussed unless explicit permission is granted.
 
Just something to think about moving forward.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I am not criticizing their offer, I am just saying that it is not a beta test at all.

Sometimes one has to call a cat a cat, and this really is a discount offer with a trial period bundled in.

I dont agree with this. You are being sent a $3000 headphone. You are a random person on the internet. They are going to want a deposit. What about that notion does not ring with your common sense?

The deposit is refundable. You do not need to buy it. Thus. your argument that they are selling their product to customers is fallacious.

As to the claim that HiFiMAN should have stated initially that there would be a deposit, how many of you seriously would have not tried anyway? Moreover, most of this thread would be devoted to speculation on what the amount of thr depositi would be.

By the way, I was chosen and am not able to afford the deposit either. It sucks, but it's not worth complaining about. I am not going to accuse HiFiMAN for charging a deposit for something that is roughly half the price of a decent used car. FWIW IMO

 

[reddog]

Well, the cat's out of the bag now...though that information really wasn't supposed to be shared publicly in the first place.

+1 well said.

 

[iancraig10]

I have done many tests before for publication and never have I been asked to do as this supposed 'contract' says. When I read it, I instantly felt that it was beyond testing. I would have been quite happy to test them and send them back which is what I felt this might have been.

The hush hush nature of some kind of 'contract in motion' is plain silly and in any case, no one has signed any contract to be worried about ....... Until money changes hands.

There are other conditions set out in the email as well which I am not happy about, specifically about what is 'allowed' to be said. I don't like that at all.

Was this checked with Jude before it went out?

 

[negura]

I can also understand why some/many prospective testers did not agree to go forward. Based on what I am reading here another example where things are not so clear is what happens with customs taxes/VAT paid, which in Europe and other places will be very significant. Good luck returning item, if one does not like it enough or prefers a straight production unit, and getting the taxes back. 
 
And from a  testing perspective putting a deposit down and having some hard cash invested, is this not a practical problem that could add some arguable bias in testing the product?
 
I am not saying this invalidates the testing, but I am sure Hifiman could have organized this better and perhaps found within over 500 "volunteers" both quality members and with impeccable trader feedback.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Since everyone's talking about it already...it makes no sense to send out something so expensive for free, when the person receiving it could attempt to keep it and never send it back. It's a security measure.

 

[s1rrah]

  Since I didn't get a PM from Hifiman, I guess that I wasn't selected.
 
I'd like to hear more from the guys and gals who chose to drop out though. What could make any real HF'er drop out of such an opportunity ?

 
I did get selected and was over the moon at the opportunity until I discovered the monetary committment.  
 
I've since kindly declined on the deal.  
 

 
And I agree, BETA testing, in it's traditionally thought of "norm" ... doesn't generally involve a near full price deposit ... passing around gear as is done a lot around this scene, is something different and is more often described as a "demo program"/etc. ... and the monetary angle is usually put right up front as it's pretty much the main factor in a person's deciding to participate or not.
 
Bad language choice but no biggee .. still want to hear them some day, though.

 

[preproman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah,  
 
I was picked as well.  I was also pick for a beta team for Mr. Speakers Alpha Dogs.  Sure Dan asked us not the tell any information and to keep all conversations between the selected beta team.  It was around 6 of us.  Guess what... Dan sent us the units for free.  
 
All we had to do is pay for the return shipping.  Dan handled that beta testing really well.  A few different things went on.  No one knew the Alpha Dogs was coming out - before they dropped.  
 
This has been a marketing show from the start. A straight dog and pony show.  
 
The only thing we got out the deal from Dan was being able to be first in line when purchase time came.  We also had a group wide PM going.  So the 6 of us would share impressions about the build, color and sound.  We went back and forth with impressions like a true beta team.  
 
Pick 5 or 6 people that has good feedback, send them the units, and only ask they pay for the return shipping. Give them the opportunity to be the first in line when purchase time come around - and welcome "ALL" feedback negative as well as positive.   
 
I declined on this one.  There's no way I'm giving up my money on a unfinished product.  I would rather wait until they start selling them..  

 

[iancraig10]

Precisely. And I'm not paying to do a Beta test. I'd rather they passed just one unit out in each country for review and it's passed on rather than what's going on here.

 

[dxanex]

So by my count I reckon we'll get to hear impressions from, what....1... maybe 2 people now? 

 
There's always a catch.

 

[wmedrz]

I was not selected 

 
For folks that were were selected, do you have to put down a security deposit until you return the headphone, or do you actually have to pay for something? 

 

[reddog]

I am a beta tester, and will get my deposit back afte I am done with the testing. I have made too many purchases, this year, so I will not be getting them, unless I win the lottery or sell a kidney.

 

[Cotnijoe]

  I was not selected 

 
For folks that were were selected, do you have to put down a security deposit until you return the headphone, or do you actually have to pay for something? 

 
Its just a security deposit that also doubles as a payment if you do choose to keep the unit you receive

 

[kapanak]

Another murky area with this are custom and duties for countries outside of the US, as well as terms of the warranty (beta testers usually don't get the full warranty).

 

[Cotnijoe]

Another murky area with this are custom and duties for countries outside of the US, as well as terms of the warranty (beta testers usually don't get the full warranty), and the minuscule discount over the MSRP that people were asked to deposit.

Combine that with the customer service reputation of Hifiman, as well as the fact that you might be getting an unfinished, untuned product to keep, and you have yourself a nice anti-beta test.

 
While I absolutely agree with custom duties being very problematic for those outside the US... I don't see how you can say the the deposit is a "miniscule discount" ...