[bagwell359]

This makes no sense at all. So the HD600 is now the measurement rig for imaging and soundstage and all HPs that sound wider are creating an artificial stage then...

Well, first of all, there's no such thing as an artificial stage. Every headphone presents the music acording to it's tuning and acoustic properties, and the HD800s are far from artificial, they just sound wider than most of other headphones. This includes the HD600 series, which are not known for having the best imaging at soundstage at all...

Umm.. I wanted to hear the reasoning, but OK, here goes:. On OTL's the 600 has 5 blobs, on SS amps 3 blobs. I listen to the 600 for timbre, not fun, not bass cannons, and certainly not image specificity, placement of instruments, depth, or really any cues that indicate anything resembling a soundscape. Most headphones are not very good at it, and the 600 is not a reference in the realm of headphones that I have heard.

 

[Harold999]

This makes no sense at all. So the HD600 is now the measurement rig for imaging and soundstage and all HPs that sound wider are creating an artificial stage then...

Well, first of all, there's no such thing as an artificial stage. Every headphone presents the music acording to it's tuning and acoustic properties, and the HD800s are far from artificial, they just sound wider than most of other headphones. This includes the HD600 series, which are not known for having the best imaging at soundstage at all...

I was talking specific about the size of the voice, which is something different than soundstage size (which i never said the HD600 is perfect in).
And yes, i think that the 6x0 series images voices (and instruments) - size wize - very good.
Now the tricky part is to place those images in a correct sized 3D soundstage. And yes, the HD6x0 series's soundstage could be a tad wider at the back of the soundstage else they would have been the perfect headphones (for me).

So in my opinion, headphones that project voices wider (singers get a wider mouth / bigger head so to speak) stretch the whole soundstage artificially wide. A voice has to remain small.
But this is just my opinion.

 

[gubar]

Hi,
Is anyone finding the edition X's very piercing/sharp in certain tracks? I'm running the from an xduo 05 plus and using Spotify/quobuz. 'You can't hurry love' by The Supremes is a good example - some really sharp 's' sounds around 11khz.i find the same on several other songs too. On songs where I don't hear this - they sound amazing But this piece, when it happens, is pretty unpleasant.

I had a previous pair of these a month or so ago which I returned after they developed a fault. I listened to them a fair bit in the 2 weeks I had them.

I've just received the new pair. From memory, the first pair were not like this. They also had a looser clamp - I think. But I'm going from memory and can't say for certain that I listed to the same tracks.

I know I can EQ, but generally don't like to since I end up tinkering endlessly.

The same tracks on my hd560s, I can tell there is a sharpness in certain tracks - but they don't get emphasised to the point it hurts!

 

[Surf Monkey]

I was talking specific about the size of the voice, which is something different than soundstage size (which i never said the HD600 is perfect in).
And yes, i think that the 6x0 series images voices (and instruments) - size wize - very good.
Now the tricky part is to place those images in a correct sized 3D soundstage. And yes, the HD6x0 series's soundstage could be a tad wider at the back of the soundstage else they would have been the perfect headphones (for me).

So in my opinion, headphones that project voices wider (singers get a wider mouth / bigger head so to speak) stretch the whole soundstage artificially wide. A voice has to remain small.
But this is just my opinion.

Comments on this and additional early impressions after about 30 hours under them:

Vocal imaging: it’s excellent. In fact imaging generally is outstanding on these. I’m listening to Jet right now and the vocal is dead center and slightly forward. The drum hits and bass are very wide and defined while the guitars are sitting directly left and right with excellent placement. The images are precise and defined. Not blurry or too large.

The FR on these is very balanced. The overall signature is a U shape with good sub-bass, ample mid bass, just a hint of mid range roll off and a very slightly elevated treble. I notice another member mentioning that he finds them too sharp on some songs. I noticed some of that when the cans were fresh out of the box but it seems to have disappeared over the first couple of hours. These are not sibilant to my ears at all. That said, I’m 58 and my most recent hearing test shows my left rolling off at 13khz and the right at 14, so my perception of the very high treble just isn’t there.

Bass wise these are incredible sounding. The transients are super fast, the sub bass and lower bass range is ample without being overly aggressive. I don’t hear any bass bloom, just clear, vivid and sculpted low end.

The soundstage on these is enormous. They’re transparent, clean and very wide/deep sounding. Some say they’re exceptionally tall sounding too. I don’t hear that as much.

Probably the main criticism I hear about them is focused on fit and finish. I can see how that could be a problem for some people. Personally, they fit me very nicely on the first click stop adjustment. My head is pretty average size so I imagine that smaller heads will have issues. The clamp force could be better, but in comparison to my Deva Pro it’s significantly improved. I actually like the non-suspension headband. I have no issues wearing these around the house and for hours on end. The finish on mine is good as well. They’re “b stock” but for the life of me I can’t find any flaws.

Finally, as to these feeling “cheap” I kind of disagree. Yes, the cups are polymer and the suspension system is pretty bare bones. But they do swivel and rotate enough to achieve perfect positioning. Furthermore there’s plastic and there’s plastic, which is to say that the kind in use on these is a lot closer to nice, high end plastic than it is to candy box liner plastic. I feel like the use of polymer for the cups is a weight saving measure and I find that completely acceptable.

So that’s where I am with these so far. I paid $399USD and I’m exceptionally happy with them at that price.

 

[NexusOne]

HEK v2 is well more technical IMO. Headband is much better. But it requires better source. The XS has a pleasing tuning and not too much detail so it can be run by more modest equipment.

The XS is for SS amps. Its quite different from the HD-600, which is more pure for acoustic recordings, but not for metal.

So the XS could be even better for bad or average productions in metal genres? The brightest is the 1000 Stealth and the Arya stealth with the most bass?

Thank you for your help. Your answers helped a lot. I think I will start with XS, E70 (Velvet?, I think i buy the normal one) and L70. Maybe later an upgrade to the more expensive ones.

But one problem: I read very often that Topping is too clinical and bright for the XS. I need a remote and optical in. Is Burson the only solution or is there somethin other to consider? Burson is 3-4x so expensive.

 

[bagwell359]

So the XS could be even better for bad or average productions in metal genres? The brightest is the 1000 Stealth and the Arya stealth with the most bass?

Thank you for your help. Your answers helped a lot. I think I will start with XS, E70 (Velvet?, I think i buy the normal one) and L70. Maybe later an upgrade to the more expensive ones.

But one problem: I read very often that Topping is too clinical and bright for the XS. I need a remote and optical in. Is Burson the only solution or is there somethin other to consider? Burson is 3-4x so expensive.

Not versed in amps enough to be useful here. Burson certainly is spoken of well.

 

[Confuddled]

Anyone from the UK sourced a pair of these from AliExpress ? Any reliable vendors ? Did you get stung with VAT and import charges ?

 

[gubar]

Anyone from the UK sourced a pair of these from AliExpress ? Any reliable vendors ? Did you get stung with VAT and import charges ?

I'm in the UK, though I bought directly from hifiman - b-stock (box was open, but otherwise appeared to be new headphones). You get a regular 1 year warranty (plus an extra 6 months for following hifiman on facebook).

Total cost was £375 including delivery. I'm not sure how much better you can get on ali express? Though I just did buy an am on ali express, from 'Pinellia Audio Store' on aliexpress with no problems, no additional fees etc.

Thanks,

G

 

[Confuddled]

@gubar, thank you, that's very helpful. They've been going for around £360 on fleabay UK, second-hand. Would prefer new, with a guarantee.

I'm seriously tempted...

 

[gubar]

@Confuddled No problem. It's my second time buying b stock on hifiman store - the first time, the box was actually still sealed. They looked brand new in every way. I'd much rather try b-stock than risk no/difficult guarantee claims process, with the distance involved if you had to return, if you bought from aliexpress.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Update: rolling through all genres with these and they’re turning out to be capable all-rounders. They can do all varieties of metal and hard rock, indie, electronic, experimental, orchestral, classical, you name it. They can even do a decent job with EDM as the sub-bass spectrum is elevated and well controlled.

I think one of the keys to these (and probably all of the egg shaped Hifiman sets) is to wear them a little lower than initially feels comfortable. The bottoms of the cups should come all the way down to your jaw line. If you wear them higher the sound stage is crushed and everything seems to be coning from above. Your ears should be closer to the top of the cups than the center. When they’re aligned correctly they come alive. Wide and deep stage, lots of excellent bass that’s fully controlled without any bloom or overlap. The one area they’re a bit weak in is technicality. They’re a little lacking in detail and some tracks sound a little smeared in the high treble. The mids could have a little more energy too, but as part of the existing tune on these it sounds really great.

Still loving the XS. A balanced cable is on the way so that I can push a bit more power into them, but they sound generally great single ended on all of the sources I’ve tried so far.

 

[bagwell359]

And yes, i think that the 6x0 series images voices (and instruments) - size wize - very good.

Respectfully disagree.

Now the tricky part is to place those images in a correct sized 3D soundstage. And yes, the HD6x0 series's soundstage could be a tad wider at the back of the soundstage else they would have been the perfect headphones (for me).

So in my opinion, headphones that project voices wider (singers get a wider mouth / bigger head so to speak) stretch the whole soundstage artificially wide. A voice has to remain small.
But this is just my opinion.

On SS amps - even big boys such as the Bryston BHA-1 and the Ragnarok 1, its 3 blobs, no matter what the acoustic setting. On my OTL, its 5 blobs - great for quintets with the main instrument in the Center.

 

[ddfcoold]

So I've had them less than a year (7 months to be precise) and right driver started to buzz on low frequencies after about 10 minutes of listening. Of I put a high cut in parametric from 30 Hz it goes away, starting from 31 and up it buzzez. I have had the same issue with Deva before and again less in than a year of use (didn't check the exact frequencies though then). I tend to have listening sessions of 2-6 hours while working, 3-4 days a week. The sound is like membrane touches something somewhere (see attached recording if interested).

I am very careful with my devices, store them in a case with silica gel, not using them when my wife cooking or in the kitchen generally etc.

And still this issue. That's definitely not a pleasant thing and I will return them to the seller since it is on guarantee, but now I am wondering if that's a Hifiman quality thing or planars are really so fragile, even if you careful with them? Did anyone have such problem? Not very happy to wait for this thing to happen again after getting new pair of XS

The second thing is that I really loved XS, though they a bit bright for me, bit this helps on a bad or dark tracks, otherwise I use parametric if needed.

And now I'm starting to think that if that's Hifiman issue, what to look at to move on, I thought about trying Arya and LCD-x before, but there are certain features to consider (like lack of stage on X in comparison) and definitely not without enough listening before buying. Not sure about Arya now and I remember how bulky were lcd2c when I've tried them in the shop...

Please share your thoughts.

I will attach 2 recordings from my smartphone taken from outside of headphones while they on my head. (rec 2 with buzz from right driver and rec3 without buzz from left driver)

tracks .zip here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zkseBPEwCj_8fDPpY3Ez9x5q7cNEb_AU/view?usp=sharing
Odyssey - from 0:32
Mask from start
Nightmare from start - on low hits

P.S. I have tried to switch cables left to right and also other hphones are doing ok without buzz.

 

[BobSmith8901]

So I've had them less than a year (7 months to be precise) and right driver started to buzz on low frequencies after about 10 minutes of listening. Of I put a high cut in parametric from 30 Hz it goes away, starting from 31 and up it buzzez. I have had the same issue with Deva before and again less in than a year of use (didn't check the exact frequencies though then). I tend to have listening sessions of 2-6 hours while working, 3-4 days a week. The sound is like membrane touches something somewhere (see attached recording if interested).

I am very careful with my devices, store them in a case with silica gel, not using them when my wife cooking or in the kitchen generally etc.

And still this issue. That's definitely not a pleasant thing and I will return them to the seller since it is on guarantee, but now I am wondering if that's a Hifiman quality thing or planars are really so fragile, even if you careful with them? Did anyone have such problem? Not very happy to wait for this thing to happen again after getting new pair of XS

The second thing is that I really loved XS, though they a bit bright for me, bit this helps on a bad or dark tracks, otherwise I use parametric if needed.

And now I'm starting to think that if that's Hifiman issue, what to look at to move on, I thought about trying Arya and LCD-x before, but there are certain features to consider (like lack of stage on X in comparison) and definitely not without enough listening before buying. Not sure about Arya now and I remember how bulky were lcd2c when I've tried them in the shop...

Please share your thoughts.

I will attach 2 recordings from my smartphone taken from outside of headphones while they on my head. (rec 2 with buzz from right driver and rec3 without buzz from left driver)

tracks .zip here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zkseBPEwCj_8fDPpY3Ez9x5q7cNEb_AU/view?usp=sharing
Odyssey - from 0:32
Mask from start
Nightmare from start - on low hits

P.S. I have tried to switch cables left to right and also other hphones are doing ok without buzz.

I also have the XS which I got about a month ago--no problems yet. I also have a Drop HE4-XX (circa 2018) which, after about a year, developed the low freq buzzing in the right channel. It was out of warranty so I tried fixing it myself. I took it all the way apart and figured it was the mylar film sort of un-adhering to the magnets. I tried kind of pressing it into the magnet (NOT ADVISED--DO NOT MESS INSIDE WITH THE MAGNETS--EASY TO DAMAGE!!!) to re-adhere it and it seemed to alleviate it for a time, but it eventually came back.

From about 70Hz down to 30Hz, to inaudibility, the 4-XX would buzz with those frequencies. Something like yours but mine sounded a bit more uncontrolled. Other freqs were fine and you would never have known it. I gave up and bought the Drop HE-X4 and it hasn't had an issue so far, although I try not to tempt fate by challenging it too much. Same with the XS--I tend to not want to push it with too much hi-energy/low frequency if I can help it.

I think that planars what with the mylar film and the magnets are just more vulnerable to this kind of thing structurally. My opinion is that HiFiMan cans may be, statistically, more prone to this issue as they have a ton of inventory in the field and many are the at the lower end price-wise--not a knock against them--but the QC and design may not be as stringent as, say, more expensive sets from HiFiMan or Audeze, etc.

If you're in the warranty window by all means try to get them fixed or replaced.

I think the bottom line is that the more money you spend, generally, the more longevity you're going to get out of a set. It sounds like you put a lot of daily time in on your XS's and that hard daily use uncovered a vulnerability in yours. I think, if I could, I would easily have chosen an Audeze or higher end HiFiMan, etc. As I go further in this endeavor I think that soundstage size vs. solid (and you pay dearly for it) hardware, I'd go with the solid hardware. I really like my HiFiMan cans, don't get me wrong, but I clearly see that there are certain realities.

 

[ddfcoold]

From about 70Hz down to 30Hz,

Looks exactly like mine

I tend to not want to push it with too much hi-energy/low frequency if I can help it.

That's exactly what I do - i usually listen on mild level with low gain since just don't need more actually, even for lamb of god or other high energy bands.
Also I downmix all the music and cut everything below 20Hz and above 20kHz, so honestly I wouldn't say that I even close to abuse the gear (except the longevity of sessions if that considered long : ))

Just returned my XS to the shop - they took it for diagnostics - said that sometimes something gets inside like a hair. And yep mine is on warranty so I didn't even took off the pads knowing how actually fragile the film is.

Also I've tried Arya stealth for about 20 minutes and i really like it - I usually tend to be rather skeptical about the amount of money you have to spend against the gain of sound quality you get but seems like Arya worth it, at least I hear the difference and it is quite substantial. But still it's a big step in price from XS and I really concerned now that I could get that buzz again in a year or so. Will keep thinking about it while my XS are in the service. Also still need to find LCD-X for listening and how it could affect my neck after 5 hours...

thanks for the input!

Still surprised by Whitigir's mod for dx220 amp - I thought that XS could get the most out of it but now I hear Arya does even better...