[gLer]

And science proofed that nobody can hear a difference in sound quality from 256kbit/s compressed files as long as they are created from the same / equally good source and in a high quality process like all the streaming services do.

Can't agree with you there. I can easily hear the difference between lossy streaming services and local flac files, volume matched. I even did a volume match test between streaming Tidal (lossless) and local hi-res flac files and I can pick our which is which. Even when the differences are small, they're still there, and when I'm spending thosands on a DAP and high-end IEMs to get the best possible quality, why skimp on the easiest and cheapest part to get right (quality lossless files)?

Depends. The R8 was perfectly able to drive my Hifiman Arya, a not so easy to drive planar magnetic. It needs 1W/32Ohms to shine and the R8 delivers. You would need something like a Heddphone or the like to be underpowered by the R8. So, it‘s quite comparable to desktop amps, even more powerful than many (like e.g. L30).

The R8 could easily drive my HD800 loud without breaking a sweat. That doesn't mean it can drive them anywhere as well as a desktop amp with significantly more headroom. Likewise with planars - they need LOTS of juice on tap, and the more you give them the better they sound. Don't get me wrong, the R8 is a very capable headphone driver, but if you want to max out the performance of your full-size headphones, chances are a high-end desktop amp will do it better.

 

[bythebookiii]

Can't agree with you there. I can easily hear the difference between lossy streaming services and local flac files, volume matched.

On the same boat here. Actually I'm on the middle of finding some flac files for artists not too well known because the differences between mp3 or any lossy format and hi-res for me are a game changer between enjoying music with pleasure or not.

Just went back to hear some songs on apple music and HiByMusic with flac files, same albums, same artists...and not even close.!

 

[gLer]

On the same boat here. Actually I'm on the middle of finding some flac files for artists not too well known because the differences between mp3 or any lossy format and hi-res is for me are a game changer between enjoying music with pleasure or not.

Just went back to hear some songs on apple music and HiByMusic with flac files, same albums, same artists...and not even close.!

I've spent the last three years building up a 3TB+ library of flac/hi-res flac/DSD for this very reason. Still a work in progress...

 

[bythebookiii]

I've spent the last three years building up a 3TB+ library of flac/hi-res flac/DSD for this very reason. Still a work in progress...

Me too. Too much time and money, but it's worth the effort. My library late 2019 was up to 20k songs, all lossy, right know I'm down to 13k lossless.. still battling.!

 

[gLer]

Me too. Too much time and money, but it's worth the effort. My library late 2019 was up to 20k songs, all lossy, right know I'm down to 13k lossless.. still battling.!

I have maybe 4 MP3 albums, that's it for lossy. And only because the CDs are out of print.

 

[CharlyBrown]

Can't agree with you there. I can easily hear the difference between lossy streaming services and local flac files, volume matched. I even did a volume match test between streaming Tidal (lossless) and local hi-res flac files and I can pick our which is which. Even when the differences are small, they're still there, and when I'm spending thosands on a DAP and high-end IEMs to get the best possible quality, why skimp on the easiest and cheapest part to get right (quality lossless files)?



The R8 could easily drive my HD800 loud without breaking a sweat. That doesn't mean it can drive them anywhere as well as a desktop amp with significantly more headroom. Likewise with planars - they need LOTS of juice on tap, and the more you give them the better they sound. Don't get me wrong, the R8 is a very capable headphone driver, but if you want to max out the performance of your full-size headphones, chances are a high-end desktop amp will do it better.

If High-Res works for you, great


I own the HD800s (and owned the HD800 before). These Headphones are not hard to drive even if stated otherwise here on headfi for years. 23mw to 300 Ohms will drive them to louder volumes than it would be healthy for many. The difference R8 vs. my RME ADI-2 DAC FS on High Power (delivering 1.5W into 32 Ohms...) is Zero quality wise. I agree with you regarding some planers that can be very demanding. But still, the R8 was capable to drive my Planars (Hifiman Arya - way harder to drive than the HD800) and I couldn’t here a difference to the desktop amp.

But I guess for example, the Hedd Heddphone could not be driven well by the R8 as it demands even more power.

 

[arijitroy2]

I'll be honest, I can properly hear a difference switching from MP3 to FLAC, also when I'm switching from Spotify to Tidal Masters. I'm yet not so sure about MQA actually, I found 24-bit Qobuz to have a bit more dynamic range in quality compared to MQA tracks that I had tested some months before.

 

[CharlyBrown]

I'll be honest, I can properly hear a difference switching from MP3 to FLAC, also when I'm switching from Spotify to Tidal Masters. I'm yet not so sure about MQA actually, I found 24-bit Qobuz to have a bit more dynamic range in quality compared to MQA tracks that I had tested some months before.

Thanks for you answer. Could you please point me to a track on Spotify & Tidal that sounds different to you and describe what differences you hear. I would love to try it out.

 

[gLer]

If High-Res works for you, great


I own the HD800s (and owned the HD800 before). These Headphones are not hard to drive even if stated otherwise here on headfi for years. 23mw to 300 Ohms will drive them to louder volumes than it would be healthy for many. The difference R8 vs. my RME ADI-2 DAC FS on High Power (delivering 1.5W into 32 Ohms...) is Zero quality wise. I agree with you regarding some planers that can be very demanding. But still, the R8 was capable to drive my Planars (Hifiman Arya - way harder to drive than the HD800) and I couldn’t here a difference to the desktop amp.

But I guess for example, the Hedd Heddphone could not be driven well by the R8 as it demands even more power.

Fair enough, through the RME is far from what I'd call a high-end desktop DAC/amp. I'm talking $3000+ systems that you can't expect something like an R8, great as it is, to match. And both an HD800 and Arya will scale with that system.

In any case, all I'll add is that the best place to be in Head-Fi is the point where you can no longer hear improvements in the sound. It means you no longer have to spend any money. That point is different for different people, so if you're there already, more power to you!

 

[CharlyBrown]

Fair enough, through the RME is far from what I'd call a high-end desktop DAC/amp. I'm talking $3000+ systems that you can't expect something like an R8, great as it is, to match. And both an HD800 and Arya will scale with that system.

In any case, all I'll add is that the best place to be in Head-Fi is the point where you can no longer hear improvements in the sound. It means you no longer have to spend any money. That point is different for different people, so if you're there already, more power to you!

More Money = better sound
More Bitrate = better sound
Take 2 Pills = illness gone twice as good
Take 4 Pills = quadruple gone!



I respect your insights in this forum but this equation is just plain wrong and that’s why I love audio science so much. It’s all measurable and even the hardcore Goldie-Ears cannot tell apart from a certain level that’s way lower than you think when performing a real blind-test (same source, volume matched etc.).

99$ Hidizs S8 Dongle / 1800$ R8 / 1100$ RME / 10.000$ Fancy Amp will all sound the same with the HD800 volume-matched as long as they don’t color the sound much (then they would be broken by design, anyway).

 

[Deferenz]

More Money = better sound
More Bitrate = better sound
Take 2 Pills = illness gone twice as good
Take 4 Pills = quadruple gone!



I respect your insights in this forum but this equation is just plain wrong and that’s why I love audio science so much. It’s all measurable and even the hardcore Goldie-Ears cannot tell apart from a certain level that’s way lower than you think when performing a real blind-test (same source, volume matched etc.).

99$ Hidizs S8 Dongle / 1800$ R8 / 1100$ RME / 10.000$ Fancy Amp will all sound the same with the HD800 volume-matched as long as they don’t color the sound much (then they would be broken by design, anyway).

What is more difficult to measure is the joy and pleasure many of us get from pursuing the many facets of this hobby, whether that agrees with sound science or not.

 

[CharlyBrown]

What is more difficult to measure is the joy and pleasure many of us get from pursuing the many facets of this hobby, whether that agrees with sound science or not.

True!

Still, we can also talk about facts. And I for one don’t always care for them too much. DAPs are a good example. I don’t need one, still I am ready to pay for it when it looks nice and has plenty power I don’t actually need etc.

 

[gLer]

99$ Hidizs S8 Dongle / 1800$ R8 / 1100$ RME / 10.000$ Fancy Amp will all sound the same with the HD800 volume-matched as long as they don’t color the sound much (then they would be broken by design, anyway).

Technically speaking you're right. Practically speaking nothing could be further from the truth. Each and every DAC and amp that I've come across and used myself has some or other 'flavour', call it different tuning, power, colour, components, whatever. If that means they're all broken by design, then just about every amp and DAC in existence is broken by design. This 'theory' of amps and DACs all sounding the same went out the windows ages ago. Heck you just have to flip between this, the iBasso DX300 and the Shanling M8 threads to see how fundamentally different all three DAPs sound to each other, volume matched or otherwise. Prior to selling my entire desktop system I very carefully volume matched the HD800 between the desktop and my DAP at the time (R6 Pro) and while I got them to sound close with the HD800, there were fundamental differences that no amount of EQ could 'fix', and without EQ, the desktop and DAP sounded very different to each other indeed. Add to that the fact that the HD800 is one of the most amp-picky headphones ever made, and I wish you best of luck trying to convince even a single HD800 owner their choice of source makes little difference (there's a reason there are entire threads discussing the differences between amps for the HD800...).

 

[Elvandarfist]

If someone has the ZMF verite closed, could you please tell me what you think of this association? Is there a good synergy?

 

[gLer]

If someone has the ZMF verite closed, could you please tell me what you think of this association? Is there a good synergy?

I haven't owned the Verite Closed myself but having owned two ZMF headphones before I can tell.you they really benefit/scale with more powerful desktop gear. Zach loves his tube amps, and many suggest that his headphones sound best with tubes. No doubt R8 will give a good account of itself with the Verite, but it probably won't be a match for a dedicated, beefier desktop amp or tube amp.