[578011]

Wow, 80/100 volume on high gain is really much more I would expected, my IE600 are really pretty loud for me at 30/100 on low gain... Is there really this much difference between these two IEMs?
I "think", there is more body and more musicality, yes, I agree here, but I wouldn't say the difference is huge by any means. And the problem is this one volume step difference between the two modes, so if you just switch, it will always sound "fuller" and have more body, because it's louder. I would like to test it perfect volume matched, but don't know how to do it.

 

[dougms3]

Wow, 80/100 volume on high gain is really much more I would expected, my IE600 are really pretty loud for me at 30/100 on low gain... Is there really this much difference between these two IEMs?
I "think", there is more body and more musicality, yes, I agree here, but I wouldn't say the difference is huge by any means. And the problem is this one volume step difference between the two modes, so if you just switch, it will always sound "fuller" and have more body, because it's louder. I would like to test it perfect volume matched, but don't know how to do it.

I don't think its louder.

The effect of class A is more body, its like that with desktop systems as well.

To me its a pretty big difference, whenever you can blind test it and be correct, I think that quantifies as a big difference.

 

[gmalik]

Are they updateed to the same version?

There was definitely some sound improvement after I updated mine to the latest version.

Also maybe check to see if the MSEB is turned on.

No, same fw, no mseb. :/

 

[gmalik]

I don't think its louder.

The effect of class A is more body, its like that with desktop systems as well.

To me its a pretty big difference, whenever you can blind test it and be correct, I think that quantifies as a big difference.

Little bit louder in Class A, because the output voltage higher than economy.

 

[578011]

It is louder, maybe only one volume step, but these steps in that device are pretty big and I would prefer, if they were a little bit smaller.
And if it is louder, how do you blind test it?

 

[dougms3]

Thats perception.

The class A offers less distortion and noise allowing more of the music to come through and be heard. It will also have a significant effect with low sensitivity iems and also at the limits.

It may seem louder because you're hearing more, the bass also has a bigger impact and hits harder amongst other audible improvements.

This might give the perception that the volume is louder but its not.

 

[dougms3]

It is louder, maybe only one volume step, but these steps in that device are pretty big and I would prefer, if they were a little bit smaller.
And if it is louder, how do you blind test it?

Blind test class A mode not the volume.

 

[578011]

Well, let's agree to disagree, because according to the spec sheet of the manufacturer the max output in class A mode (both single ended) is 2,2 Vrms against 1,9 Vrms in economy mode. So the output power (again, according to the same spec sheet) is 150 to 110 mW. Of course the difference is not as big as between single ended and balanced, but it's definitely there - A amp mode has more power, so I assume is a tad louder, and I hear it clearly.

And distortion, well, good for you, if you hear the difference between THD 0,0006% and 0,0022% (spec sheet again).

So again, if the class A amp mode has more output power and is louder, how did you do the blind test between economy and class A amp mode? I'm just curious, because for a serious test you need the best possible volume match. I would like to make that test for myself.

 

[dougms3]

Well, let's agree to disagree, because according to the spec sheet of the manufacturer the max output in class A mode (both single ended) is 2,2 Vrms against 1,9 Vrms in economy mode. So the output power (again, according to the same spec sheet) is 150 to 110 mW. Of course the difference is not as big as between single ended and balanced, but it's definitely there - A amp mode has more power, so I assume is a tad louder, and I hear it clearly.

And distortion, well, good for you, if you hear the difference between THD 0,0006% and 0,0022% (spec sheet again).

So again, if the class A amp mode has more output power and is louder, how did you do the blind test between economy and class A amp mode? I'm just curious, because for a serious test you need the best possible volume match. I would like to make that test for myself.

Easy way to test the volume is to use a tone generator and microphone with a headphone or speakers and log the decibels.

I don't have a microphone or really care enough to conduct this experiment but feel free to have at it.

Blind test by pressing the class A mode button on and off. Not sure whats complicated about that, if you think the volume is louder in class A turn it down a notch.

 

[578011]

I don't think the volume is louder in class A, because according to the spec sheet it that mode has more power and accordingly to that should be louder, I'm no engineer, but if the relation applies to balanced and single ended (more power > louder), I assume, it also applies here. So you can't test both modes volume matched, and without that you cannot test it at all. Of course you can lower or rise the volume level after switching between the two modes, but this makes no sense for me, because you listen to something, switch to A amp mode, it isl louder a bit, so then after that you lower the volume, then switch to economy, it get's quieter, so you raise the volume... This isn't by any means a test. You never switch the volume up/down exactly at the moment of switching between modes and one step of volume switching could be too much / not enough to match the volume.

Don't get me wrong, I believe you, that you hear all the stuff you're describing in class A, I "think" "maybe" I'm hearing something too, but I think mostly because I've paid several hundred dollars for this device and would like justify this in any possible way. It would be great, if both modes we're perfectly volume match, but they aren't and that's why I am asking for opinions of users.

 

[dougms3]

I don't think the volume is louder in class A, because according to the spec sheet it that mode has more power and accordingly to that should be louder, I'm no engineer, but if the relation applies to balanced and single ended (more power > louder), I assume, it also applies here. So you can't test both modes volume matched, and without that you cannot test it at all. Of course you can lower or rise the volume level after switching between the two modes, but this makes no sense for me, because you listen to something, switch to A amp mode, it isl louder a bit, so then after that you lower the volume, then switch to economy, it get's quieter, so you raise the volume... This isn't by any means a test. You never switch the volume up/down exactly at the moment of switching between modes and one step of volume switching could be too much / not enough to match the volume.

Don't get me wrong, I believe you, that you hear all the stuff you're describing in class A, I "think" "maybe" I'm hearing something too, but I think mostly because I've paid several hundred dollars for this device and would like justify this in any possible way. It would be great, if both modes we're perfectly volume match, but they aren't and that's why I am asking for opinions of users.

Thats why you test it on someone else. To eliminate any kind of predetermination or bias.

Volume doesnt have to be exactly matched. Even at a lesser volume the class A sounds better.

Just the bass difference alone is easily noticeable, it hits harder with more impact and better texture. Maybe try out a different iem or headphone, its night and day for me.

 

[578011]

Why should I test it with someone else, when the main issue remains, both modes are still not volume matched. I'm pretty sure, if I test it with my friends, they say class A is better, because it will always be a bit louder.
And I don't agree, that volume doesn't have to be exactly matched, because it needs to be, if you make a serious comparison. And of course at lesser volume class A sounds better, it will always at any volume sound better, because it will be always a bit louder than economy.
When the volume levels are different, "better" bass could be easily explained based on the Fletcher-Munson curves.

 

[dougms3]

Why should I test it with someone else, when the main issue remains, both modes are still not volume matched. I'm pretty sure, if I test it with my friends, they say class A is better, because it will always be a bit louder.
And I don't agree, that volume doesn't have to be exactly matched, because it needs to be, if you make a serious comparison. And of course at lesser volume class A sounds better, it will always at any volume sound better, because it will be always a bit louder than economy.
When the volume levels are different, "better" bass could be easily explained based on the Fletcher-Munson curves.

Again, the reason to test it on someone else is to eliminate bias and predetermination. Its obvious you want confirmation bias, to confirm your opinion that class A doesn't sound better...I have disagreed with you and given you an objective way to prove it.

You have your answer, class A always sounds better than non class A on the r5g2. Not sure why you keep calling it economy, its just class A on or off.

I've told you several times already, class A sounds better. I've already tested this with other people to confirm.

Use your ears, if you can't tell the difference between the two modes, maybe you just cant tell but others can. If you can't bench press 225 doesn't mean the whole world can't.

 

[578011]

I call it "economy mode", because the manufacturer calls it that way, that's quite simple.
There is nothing objective in testing it the way you describe, because class A mode is louder than economy mode, no matter at what volume level you test it nor how many other people listen to it and tell you it sounds better.
And regarding the confirmation bias... I don't want to confirm, that class A sounds better or worse. I would like to know the objective truth about it. You are 100% sure, it sounds better, but this is your subjective opinion, because you haven't tested it objectively.
But let's stay that way and I'm glad you're happy with the sound.

 

[schwartzasher]

I call it "economy mode", because the manufacturer calls it that way, that's quite simple.
There is nothing objective in testing it the way you describe, because class A mode is louder than economy mode, no matter at what volume level you test it nor how many other people listen to it and tell you it sounds better.
And regarding the confirmation bias... I don't want to confirm, that class A sounds better or worse. I would like to know the objective truth about it. You are 100% sure, it sounds better, but this is your subjective opinion, because you haven't tested it objectively.
But let's stay that way and I'm glad you're happy with the sound.

Class a puts both outputs at full power so they can run some things a bit better. According to reviews things sound richer, but if you have a pair of earbuds or headphones that don't need a lot of power, class A isn't going to make a difference