[Cool_Torpedo]

Dinesh, if you're not familiar with the sound signature of the phones you're being advised, it's quite likely that you end up getting something that's not entirely what you'd like better.
It seems that you like acoustic instruments, and that you might enjoy some correct timbre in their rendition, but it could be that you also wanted some rhythmic snap, or you enjoyed better a "spacious" presentation over an intimate one.

I think that you've been advised interesting phones, but it's important that you try to listen to some of them -IMO mainly the Sennheiser HD600/650, AKG 701/601- and also some others like the Grado GS1000 (especially if you are a low level listener), Audio Technica M40/M50, Denon D2000/D5000, even the Fostex T50RP, then deciding what type of sound matches better your own taste and priorities in sound. Depending on which they are, you'll like better one or other. Once you know what phones are you buying, it's easier deciding if you need an amp and what kind of amp is required.

 

[dgshtav]

Thanks everyone for the inputs. Keep them coming.

A bit more on the sound I like:
* I prefer neutral sound over in-my-face or laid back sound.
* I would appreciate the right presentation of depth and dimension rather than a flat sound. Basically near accurate sound stage and imaging with no alteration (at least not induced by the head phones)
* Am not a boomy bass fanatic. The right bass notes rendered nice and tight with the right SPLs and decays, and I will be happy camper.

Of course, to the merit of the reference argument, all the above (and sound preferences discussed in previous posts) is not to suggest that I expect the headphones to color the sound such as desired; but rather reflect on the fact that all my sonic signature expectations are (to me) pointers to a true-to-source sound, both - tonally as well as spatially, more so given the genres I like.

Am still going through the ton of info here and elsewhere and screening some reviews on Amazon as well to isolate "audiophile/experienced" reviews from consumer ones; but it appears that the following are lead contenders at what seem to be their price points. Please do reflect on the below.

$200 through $300 range:
AKG K701 ~ $225
Senn HD650 ~300
Bey DT880 ~280
Denon AHD5000 ~380 (beyond the range but appears to be good value)

$500 through $700 range
Grado RS-1 ~$650
Grado GS1000 ~$700
Audio Technica ATH-W5000 ~$650

Can you all comment on absolute performance (regardless of the price) and then the price relative/comparative performance of the below?
Denon AHD5000
Audio Technica ATH-W5000
Grado GS1000 (more so in comparison with RS-1)
Bey DT880

Thanks for the feedback so far. I appreciate it.

 

[Elephas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgshtav /img/forum/go_quote.gif A bit more on the sound I like: * I prefer neutral sound over in-my-face or laid back sound. * I would appreciate the right presentation of depth and dimension rather than a flat sound. Basically near accurate sound stage and imaging with no alteration (at least not induced by the head phones) * Am not a boomy bass fanatic. The right bass notes rendered nice and tight with the right SPLs and decays, and I will be happy camper.

Ooooh, this description calls for the Sony MDR-R10.

The other blah suggestions might do, but the R10 would be a better choice. Or an electrostatic. Based on your description it seems you're not really a newbie, you've got refined tastes and there seems to be a large budget to play with. This is a rarity these days and a quite a treat for all of us who have depleted wallets.

If the R10 is rejected and one of the blah choices (RS-1, K701, HD6x0) made, maybe consider a Zana Deux to drive the headphones? Actually, the second requirement (and arguably also the first) should eliminate Grados from consideration. Stax SR-007 could be another option instead.

Hey, I'm all excited about this thread after seeing "reference" and "audiophile grade" and "I don't know what should be my budget."

 

[olblueyez]

This: Driver unit for Earspeaker : SRM-007tII

Plus

This: Open air type Earspeaker : SR-007MK2 (OMEGAII)---New products

Added to your balanced source should end your journey permantly. Its got all the ingredients, its balanced to take advantage of your balanced source (more dynamic and speedy). Its got tubes to add some warmth to your analytical source. If this is too much cash maybe a cheaper Earspeaker/Driver unit Combo would be in order. Just food for thought. http://www.stax.co.jp/index-E.html

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

As Elephas said considering your last comments, if budget isn't a concern, R10 or Stax OmegaII, maybe AKG K1000 could serve you well. Next step could be the about to hit the streets Sennheiser HD800, which I haven't heard but considering the glowing comments, they are interesting to try nonetheless. In this range we could place the new Grado PS-1000.
All those are expensive cans, some very hard to spot, but have big amounts of rightness in timbral qualities, timing, resolution and spatial presentation.

If you want your bass to be right, you'd need to modify the Denon D5000, otherwise despite long burn-in, they still have a resonant and boomy bass in some bands.

Going for budget minded options, I think your best bets are the Sennheiser HD600/650. Both are quite easy to find used, so you could try them without much loss. They scale well and show improvements when swapping amps and sources. IMHO the HD600 is one of the most neutral (tonally and space-wise) phones ever made and a good first step into high-end when used in a well matched rig. The HD650 are a bit darker and need a more proficient amp to really shine, even using them in a balanced setup could be necessary for some tastes.
K701 aren't bad, but again IMHO they have some "tricks" which make their spatial presentation and tonality in the treble not as natural as HD600. However a lot of people love them, so you'd better try them. For any third party it is difficult guessing what you would end up liking better.

 

[Gamerphile]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif This: Driver unit for Earspeaker : SRM-007tII Plus This: Open air type Earspeaker : SR-007MK2 (OMEGAII)---New products Added to your balanced source should end your journey permantly. Its got all the ingredients, its balanced to take advantage of your balanced source (more dynamic and speedy). Its got tubes to add some warmth to your analytical source. If this is too much cash maybe a cheaper Earspeaker/Driver unit Combo would be in order. Just food for thought. Welcome to STAX Earspeaker

He.. funny just did the calculations and the street price of this setup from the Danish distributor is actually about the same as the balanced one I'm going to use with the HD 800. Well of course you would need a dedicated source component with DAC for the Stax which might tip the balance

But still... scary... 27000 DKK which is about 4200 USD is the Stax system going to set you back as new. The Sennheiser HD800 is 10K DKK or 1400 USD alone.

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

* I would appreciate the right presentation of depth and dimension rather than a flat sound. Basically near accurate sound stage and imaging with no alteration (at least not induced by the head phones)

The general problem with this idea is twofold. It's a very common thing to come in looking for, but you've got to take anything anyone says with a grain of salt and know the following two things.

Firstly, there simply isn't a headphone on the market right now that offers the "right presentation of depth and dimension" because everything has its own distinct way of handling audio.

Secondly, only you will be able to decide which headphone comes closest to offering this kind of presentation.

Again, if you're serious about this, you need to make a short-list of headphones you think MIGHT offer what you want and then be willing to try others as well.

Though honestly, it sounds like you might need to dig up a K1000.

 

[dgshtav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif Based on your description it seems you're not really a newbie, you've got refined tastes and there seems to be a large budget to play with. This is a rarity these days and a quite a treat for all of us who have depleted wallets.

Newbie here on the forum, but I am developing an ear and I am beginning to understand (I think) how to listen to music.

As for the budget, I wish I had a large one, but no I don’t. I do have some room, but as I said earlier, I didn’t want this post to be just a “spend my money” post but rather wanted to learn more about the considerations, options and price-points to come up with the right budget/performance goals balance.

Based on what I am reading, it appears that the $250 to $350 range gives best value for money with the $600 +/- range bringing some audiophile/reference quality options.

Now that I have had some $$ unbiased feedback from you all, let me say that I would like to keep looking between the above ranges.


Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif This: Driver unit for Earspeaker : SRM-007tII Plus This: Open air type Earspeaker : SR-007MK2 (OMEGAII)---New products

Though this is beyond my budget at this point, I appreciate the pointers. Helps me understand what prime-time would be.

Thanks for the links. Maybe some day….

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you want your bass to be right, you'd need to modify the Denon D5000, otherwise despite long burn-in, they still have a resonant and boomy bass in some bands. …. Going for budget minded options, I think your best bets are the Sennheiser HD600/650 ……. IMHO the HD600 is one of the most neutral (tonally and space-wise) phones ever made and a good first step into high-end when used in a well matched rig. The HD650 are a bit darker and need a more proficient amp to really shine, even using them in a balanced setup could be necessary for some tastes.

Some good pointers there. Questions (to you and other with experience on these headphones):
1.Are the Denon D5000 and HD600/650 considered to be in the same league?
2.How would one comparatively describe the sound between those?
3.Denon claims better diaphragm materials and as a result, tighter/crisper presentation with quick decays. Comments?
4.You mentioned that the HD650’s are darker. Can you please elaborate?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif K701 aren't bad, but again IMHO they have some "tricks" which make their spatial presentation and tonality in the treble not as natural as HD600. However a lot of people love them, so you'd better try them.

It appears that you have an inclination for the HD600 over the HD650s, coz. you even compare the K701 to HD600. So,
•How different are the HD600 and the HD650?
•What makes an HD650 an upgrade?
•And then what makes that upgrade a “fussy” one?
•For the right reasons, I might be willing to work on it. So what does it take to make the HD-650 sings.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, if you're serious about this, you need to make a short-list of headphones you think MIGHT offer what you want and then be willing to try others as well. Though honestly, it sounds like you might need to dig up a K1000.

I agree with you. I will eventually come up with a shortlist and evaluate my options. Will look up the K1000 as well.

Not so as to close on the $250 to $350 price range, but one option could be to start within that range and sample a couple of options and then go from there. I am not locking it down to that $$ range yet as I am still intrigued by the $600 range products as well.

Any thoughts/info on the:
Audio Technica ATH-W5000
Grado GS1000 (more so in comparison with RS-1)
Bey DT880

Thanks everyone.

 

[zyxwvutsr]

Here's a brief comparison between the K501 and the following headphones:

AKG K701 balanced - The K701 is somewhat warmer but still share many similarities in sound signature. It's been a long time since I've heard these so I can't help you with a more detailed comparison, though I'm sure you'll find plenty in other threads on head-fi.

Senn HD650 - Excluding the headphones that I have owned, the HD6x0s are the headphones that I have most experience with. They have a considerably darker presentation than the K501. The K501 definitely has more clarity. In comparison, the HD650s have always sounded veiled (the HD600 less so), even when driven balanced through amps such as the B-52 and GS-X. Violins sound subdued and less natural on the HD6x0s - I cannot speak for other instruments as I don't have enough experience with them.

Bey DT880 - These phones are really peculiar. The people who love them really love them and the people who hate them really hate them. I'm part of the latter group. I find the treble range of this phone to be incredibly disturbing and sometimes painful (I was unpleasantly surprised as I was listening to a Sarasate piece with them). Do make sure you try these headphones before committing to a purchase.

Denon AHD5000 - From what I recall (I last heard these over two years ago), the D5000s were really fun headphones, but not really suited for acoustic music due to it's relatively v-shaped freq. response.

Audio Technica ATH-W5000 - these are my main headphones right now, but I reach for the K501s whenever I decide to listen to pure acoustic music. The W5000s are technically superior in almost every regard. Resolution and imaging are absolutely superb. Tonality with string instruments is weird (instruments sound more hollow? It's hard to describe). Many people have complained about the imbalanced frequency response of these headphones, but that may be partially due to how terribly picky the W5000s are with head shape and size (Do a search on W5000 fit and you'll see what I mean).

You may want to look into electrostats as well.

EDIT: Out of all these phones, the K501s have by far the widest soundstage, which by comparison makes the soundstage seem shallow, but certainly not any less shallow than the competition (at least not significantly so). Imaging is decent, but not spectacular.

 

[lamikeith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgshtav /img/forum/go_quote.gif I prefer neutral, fluid, engaging but not overly bright sound. Coming from my full range speakers experience, I have found the mids to be an area that could do with some improvement on most speakers that I have heard.

Typed words can not convey, try as we might, what something sounds like. Neither can test data, but test data is better than words. Go to HeadPhone.com and play with their headphone data charts. Read how to interpret their charts. Learn about linear and non-linear distortion. Buy a pair of phones well within your budget (reduced risk). Listen to them. Get to know them. Then you will have a better idea of what you'd like to have. You may like what you have or you may not, but, you won't know until you walk the path. Enjoy the journey.

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgshtav /img/forum/go_quote.gif Grado GS1000 (more so in comparison with RS-1)

The GS1000 is a headphone with an expansive soundstage, good comfort and exceptional bass. However, I find the higher register to be a bit sharp in comparison to an older and well rounded RS-1. In addition, the RS1 has a tighter lower end and can layer music a little better with superior texture.

There are certainly others who feel differently, but that's my general preference. I'm sure I've written far longer comparisons in the past but that's the boiled down version.

 

[dgshtav]

zyxwvutsr : Thanks. That helps.

Mercuttio: I appreciate the concise feedback on the GS1000.


Quote:

Originally Posted by lamikeith /img/forum/go_quote.gif Typed words can not convey, try as we might, what something sounds like. Neither can test data, but test data is better than words. Go to HeadPhone.com and play with their headphone data charts. Read how to interpret their charts. Learn about linear and non-linear distortion. Buy a pair of phones well within your budget (reduced risk). Listen to them. Get to know them. Then you will have a better idea of what you'd like to have. You may like what you have or you may not, but, you won't know until you walk the path. Enjoy the journey.

This is awesome. Haven't got a chance to read how they test, etc. BUT, if the "test bench" in constant, the graphs will help a lot in isolating subjectivity from all the feedback received so far.

 

[Suntory_Times]

I would also consider the HD600, he60 (and if you can afford it) the he90 as possible options. (though I haven't heard the he90 myself I have yet to hear anything bad about it and cant imagine someone being disappointed with it).

Another option would be to look into a stax system.

 

[AmanGeorge]

I think the K701 is the ticket. If you're not looking for huge bass, I find it's spacial presentation, neutrality, quickness, and tonality to be wonderful.

I also own a Denon D5000 and like it a lot, but more for pop (where it's much nicer than the AKG) and jazz (where it's as good as but very different from the K701) than for things like classical or vocals.

I think the AKGs sound about right for what you're looking for, and I agree with folks who say you should pair it with something "tubey" as an amp to warm up the sound a little bit.

 

[dgshtav]

Did a FR comparo between K701, HD600, HD650 and D5000 on headphone.com

WOW....looking at the FR graphs, I can't believe the price tag on the K701! It seems flatter than the rest through 10K.

I can also quantify the "darkness" of the HD650. That +5dB dip from 3K to 7K doesn't look good. Same for the "boominess" of the D5000.

The K701, HD650, Grado RS-1 and the ATH-W5000 would be an interesting to see on one graph as well.

I understand that the FR graphs don't speak much for the tonal and spatial characteristics, but they do help in identifying a well rounded phone.

Thanks again. Can't wait for more comparos and learning about why people don't like the K701 (as some seem to suggest here)