[dgshtav]

Newbie and first post here...

I'm Dinesh and am gradually developing an ear for good music.

I currently have a decent separates setup for music/movies and now I am considering getting a reference/audiophile headphone setup for music. But honestly, I just don't know where to start and what to look for in a headphones setup.

My music tastes are very varied and I really enjoy any kind of good music.

But primarily I enjoy the below the most:
* String instruments (Santoor, Violin, Sarod)
* Percussion (Indian drums/tabla)
* Vocals (Both Indian and Western)
* Saxophone, Flute
* Soft Jazz, Soft Rock.

I am not into electronic, hard rock, etc.

And I haven't got much opportunity yet to listen much of Piano, so I don't know what I am missing there yet.

I prefer neutral, fluid, engaging but not overly bright sound. Coming from my full range speakers experience, I have found the mids to be an area that could do with some improvement on most speakers that I have heard.

That said, to begin with, I will looking for some guidance on the following in the near future:
1. What should the considerations be in a headphones setup?
2. Typical price-points and acoustic returns at those price-points.
3. Given my music tastes, what would be your recommendations for reference/audiophile grade HP-amps and HPs?

I see that there is a ton of information here in the form of "guides" and some recommendations posts. I intend to read through some of that material as over the next few days. This post was primarily to introduce myself and see if I could get some "quick, time-saver" pointers to appropriate resources.

Thanks,
Dinesh

 

[1Time]

Welcome.

What is your approximate budget for these purchases?

What source will you be using, or will you also be buying a source?

 

[Covenant]

Firstly, take any recommendations you get with a grain of salt. No oppinion, no matter how well-informed it may be, is comparable to listening for yourself and trusting your ears.

Based on your stated preference for music and sonic signature I'd say you'd be after a system with present, full-bodied mids, tight and controlled lows and sweet/slightly rolled off highs.

The first thing that needs to be considered is the source. You want something fairly neutral, with good resolution - colouring the sound as you like it is best done further down the chain. The type of source will vary greatly depending on your budget, whether you want a dedicated cd player, if you want to use computer as source, go down the vinyl route, etc.

The amp you want to match to the headphone. Pick your headphone first, and then based on its requirements pick your amp to suit.

Headphone-wise, candidates could be: HD600/650, RS-1, or D5000. Of these, the RS-1 is the least comfortable, but has the most magical mids of the bunch. HD600/650 are considerably more comfortable, but sacrifice some of the midrange magic for a more balanced and 'jack of all trades' presentation. Denon D5000 is bassy, but is also exceptionally comfortable without losing midrange fidelity. I would recommend trying an RS-1, and if the comfort doesn't bother you, buying one.

 

[dgshtav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Time /img/forum/go_quote.gif Welcome. What is your approximate budget for these purchases?

Honestly, I don't know what should be my budget. It's one of the areas I am looking help with and hence my price-points question. I don't want to throw a number out there so as not to bias the responses. But I will say that I am looking for a reference/audiophile grade setup and while I have some room with the budget, I would like to stay away from ranges where the acoustic returns for $$ start diminishing.


Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Time /img/forum/go_quote.gif What source will you be using, or will you also be buying a source?

Sources:
* Cambridge Audio Azur 840c
* Audio Technica PL-120 turn table (Still working on which Cart to go for given the sound I like)
* Digital music from HTPC eventually processed through the DACs on the Cambridge Audio 840c.

Question: Is a HP jack needed on the pre-pro if I would be going through a HP amp?

So I believe the budget would be just the HP and amp. Let me know if I am missing something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant /img/forum/go_quote.gif Based on your stated preference for music and sonic signature I'd say you'd be after a system with present, full-bodied mids, tight and controlled lows and sweet/slightly rolled off highs.

Thanks for the help with describing the sound that I like. It's exactly the sound that I am looking for except I would like to affirm that when you say "slightly rolled off" highs....you mean not too bright but still with a good presentation of the highs without me having to bump up the highs in the pre-pros.

Thanks for the recommendations. Will research those.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

So... you do not want a reference system correct?

 

[dgshtav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove /img/forum/go_quote.gif So... you do not want a reference system correct?

"Reference" is very subjective. More so for someone like me who lacks experience and exposure.

If your question is either in response to my listed sources and/or the diminishing returns statement, then specifically to you (and to you only) I will say - No, I am not looking for a "Reference" setup.

But let me also add that, subsequent to buying a headphone setup, if and when I get few grand (or more), then the only equipment I should need to upgrade should be to exotic sources. The headphones should not be a much too limiting factor in that situation.

 

[kool bubba ice]

501

 

[tintin47]

^he means the akg K501. They are out of production and from what I have heard need a very hefty amp to drive, but now that I think about it, they do seem to fit your desires very nicely. You can find them used on the fs forum for about $150-200 probably.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgshtav /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Reference" is very subjective. More so for someone like me who lacks experience and exposure. If your question is either in response to my listed sources and/or the diminishing returns statement, then specifically to you (and to you only) I will say - No, I am not looking for a "Reference" setup.

The audio signal in this case is the referent, and the sound that comes out of your headphones is the entity that needs to align to it... if you want a reference system. To put simply, a reference system would have an optimum acoustic signature for representing an audio signal. Some elements would be a flat frequency response, infinitely fast transient response, no distortion, etc etc.

Closest imo you can get to that would be digital source (computer w/ Eq?), asynch USB DAC with balanced out, solid state 4 channel amp, and electrostatic phones.

But if you want what sounds good to you, so to speak, then you (most likely) do not want a reference setup.

 

[dgshtav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove /img/forum/go_quote.gif The audio signal in this case is the referent, and the sound that comes out of your headphones is the entity that needs to align to it... if you want a reference system. To put simply, a reference system would have an optimum acoustic signature for representing an audio signal. Some elements would be a flat frequency response, infinitely fast transient response, no distortion, etc etc. Closest imo you can get to that would be digital source, digital EQ, solid state amp, and electrostatic phones. But if you want what sounds good to you, so to speak, then you (most likely) do not want a reference setup.

Now that I see where you are coming from, I think we are in agreement. But we all got work with what we have.

Let me put it this way. I don't want the headphones to be a limiting or an additive factor in the presentation. Beyond that, I perfectly understand that the presentation would be only as good as a product of all equipment in the chain....right from recording to presentation.

 

[Uncle Erik]

What kool bubba ice said. Just get the AKG K-501 and find a decent amp for it. Amping the K-501 isn't that bad. You'll just need a fairly powerful desktop amp. You'd probably enjoy tubes the most with your music, but there are good deals on fine solid state amps, too.

If you go wild over the K-501 and get an itch to spend more, look for an AKG K-1000. But the K-501 will give you almost everything you could want and they turn up used between $100-$150.

 

[cswann1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintin47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^he means the akg K501. They are out of production and from what I have heard need a very hefty amp to drive, but now that I think about it, they do seem to fit your desires very nicely. You can find them used on the fs forum for about $150-200 probably.

These are getting to be a rare bird on the FS forums. But according to the OP's music tastes it sounds like good advise.


In the absence of the availability of the K501, I would suggest the K701. As unpopular as this phone is these days, I believe it to be a solid performer. Good amplification is advised, but I get more than decent sound from my Denon receiver, and my MKIVse does a great job too.

dgshtav, welcome and good luck. The best advise I can give is to audition any gear if possible, and if you can't do that, read as much as you can here on Head-Fi. There are many products that will give most of what the high-priced gear will, for a lot less, but opinions vary so read as much as you can before making a blind purchase.


Also, please do not let any one Head-Fi members enthusiasm for a single product create any unrealistic expectations. In headphone audio (and audio in general for that matter), truly great sound is only achieved through thoughtful assembly of a complete system, no matter what budget you are working with. Remember, good sound must start with a good source.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cswann1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the absence of the availability of the K501, I would suggest the K701.

Isn't the K601 closer to the 500 series vs the 701?

Btw if you did get a 50x you might have to preform a few modifications to get suitable bass response.

 

[cswann1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove /img/forum/go_quote.gif Isn't the K601 closer to the 500 series vs the 701?

Probably, but for the genres listed in the OP, I stand by my recommendation. As time goes by I am more and more impressed with my K701's for acoustic and vocal music.

 

[Mercuttio]

I think most would consider a "Reference Grade" headphone setup to be a bit past the point of diminishing returns. The catch really is that to get "Reference Grade" you're going to have to start paying more for less.

That said, I believe that you'll need to find your own house sound. People may tell you that the AKG 701 is fantastic for classical, but you might prefer the Sennheiser or Grado twist on that music. Just because they say "Grado is for Rock" doesn't necessarily mean you'll need to hear rock to appreciate a headphone from that family.

Take a good look at the following headphones, and audition as many as you can. Once you find your "sound," you can start asking around about an amp to refine the flavor of that headphone, and tweak it to your sensibilities.

Sennheiser HD600 or 650 if you'd like a little more bass and warmth.

Beyerdynamic DT880

Grado RS1

Audio Technica AD2000

AKG K701 / 702, or 501, or 601. If you're really nuts, find a K1000... nothing else sounds quite like that and it's true "reference."

Other headphones will definitely be added to that list, but all of those listed above will be driven to some degree by a standard headphone jack in a stereo amplifier. They won't show you their full potential, but you'll be able to evaluate them to some degree. Unfortunately spending the money or borrowing the phones is the only way to truly say you've found the headphone for you. I've heard a lot of headphones and owned more than any normal person would consider sane, but I can truly say that the headphones listed in my signature are the right ones for me.