Help re different methods of driving and EQ-ing headphones?

[ADUHF]

The 350$ for everything makes it really tough.
There is only one thing that comes to my mind and that would be something like a FiiO E17 or similar.

If you would need the EQ only for music, then you could get the USB Audio Player Pro on an android Device as source. The parametric EQ costs like 5$ and is really good from what I've heard. However then you still wouldn't have EQ for the other sources.

Honestly the cheapest solution I could imagine which I'd still call "audiophile" would be the entry Schiit Stack Magni + Modi + Loki. However that stack alone costs 350$ and you don't have anything left for a headphone.

Thank you for the reply, ThanatosVI.

The price is a bit of a problem. If my mixer was still working, for example, then I could maybe just get the DAC and amp, and temporarily use the mixer as my EQ. But everything decided to break on me all at once. And unlike some other folks here, I don't really have any other good backup headphones, amps, etc. for when one set goes out. Maybe that's somethin I should think about investing in though.

I like the idea of a more modular arrangement like you describe above. Because that would potentially allow me to upgrade each piece as I'm able, and as I find better gear that I can afford. But I'm pretty much limited to what I can do along those lines to what's available through Best Buy and Guitar Center, for the time being. I welcome any other suggestions that you, and gimmeheadroom, and others have though on that. Or on some of the other approaches discussed above.

I spoke with a salesman from Sweetwater today to see if they had any ideas on my situation. And they also suggested the RME DAC/headamp (which is out of my price range). And also mentioned the Grace Design m900, and walnut Klipsch Heritage Headphone DAC/Amp. Both are in the $500-600 range. And both have TOSLINK optical inputs. It doesn't look like either one have built-in EQ or tone adjustments though. The unit by Grace Design has a digital interface though that allows you to add crossfeed, and adjust the L/R channel balance, as well some different filtering options for the digital inputs. So I may look at some of their other products to see if they have something else I could use. Perhaps they could add some EQ features to the m900's digital inputs via a future firmware update as well(?). Not sure about that though.

The Grace Design m900 uses an AKM 4490 DAC, and the Klipsch uses an ESS Sabre32 DAC btw.

We also talked briefly about interfaces and some of the other hardware options, but that didn't yield too much new info. My next step is probably to go back through all the options via Guitar Center or Best Buy, now that I have a somewhat better idea of the kind of thing I'm lookin for, to see what I can maybe cobble together from those two places.

Thank you both for the help again. It is much appreciated.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

It's impossible make a decision based on the chips alone and I haven't heard either DAC.

As a very broad generalization, AKMs are warmer and ESS are more analytical. It depends on many additional factors though and all modern DACs are very capable. A lot of desktop DACs are using mobile chips to reduce cost and power consumption, much like some desktop PCs use mobile chips. You really have to spend time with each one to assess it.

Grace used to be a real company and Klipsch certainly is. But it is very likely both these DACs are just branded versions of somebody else's DACs. Somebody pointed out the Klipsch is a Fostex DAC which should be capable and good.

 

[ADUHF]

Still probing around looking at some possible dac/headamp+HP, receiver+HP, and mixer+HP combos.

Yamaha appears to make some relatively inexpensive receivers in the $300 range with TOSLINK optical in and Burr-Brown DACs. So that's one option I'm considering. I didn't really think I could get a receiver or AVR with a decent DAC and optical input in that price range.

The Yamaha R-N303 stereo network receiver does not include any video support. But it has a 192 kHz/24-bit Burr-Brown DAC, optical and coaxial in, tone controls on the front, and phono and tape in/out on the back. So it appears to be designed with 2-channel music enthusiasts in mind. Unfortunately, neither BB or GC seem to carry this particular model. So I might look around for another brand with similar features. Or consider a lower-end surround receiver like the RX-V385. The V385 has a slightly better DAC than the N303, with 384 kHz/32-bit support, and also Yamaha's "Silent Cinema" virtual surround feature, among other niceties. It lacks the phono preamp and tape out though. And doesn't have the tone control knobs on the front. (Though I suspect there are other ways of making some similar adjustments on it.)

Yamaha also makes a lower-cost integrated amp called the A-S301 with features similar to the R-N303 (including optical in), and probably a little better build quality for ~$350. So something like that might be another option. Unfortunately BB doesn't carry it, just the more expensive models that are $500 and up. (Grrr.)

The manuals for the above seem to be indicating a 470 ohm impedance for the headphone output, which seems way high to me! It's a bit unclear though whether that's the source or device impedance(?).

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/downlo...b_ZX69330_R-N303_R-N303D_om_URL_EnFrEs_A0.pdf
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/1/1161601/web_AV17-0087_RX-V385_om_UCABGLFP_En_A0.pd
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/8/332208/A-S701_S501_S301_om_U.pdf

Not sure a receiver or integrated amp is my best option though yet. And still lookin at some other possible combinations.

 

[ADUHF]

Another lower-cost dac/amp+HP combo that looked somewhat interesting was the Audioengine D1 dac/amp for ~$170 paired with one of Beyerdynamic's customizable headphones with built-in tone controls, like the Custom Studio or Custom One Pro Plus. The D1 only accepts digital inputs though (via optical or USB). So it is a bit limited. The headphone output on the D1 is 2 ohms. And it uses a AK4396 DAC with up to 192 kHz/24-bit on the optical input.

I believe some Bluetooth HPs also include basic EQ controls. So that might be another option to explore. My TV does not appear to have Bluetooth support built-in though.

Still lookin.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I have several Yamaha minisystems and I think they're good in the sense they have a lot of features and sound pretty good especially with the stock speakers. They're almost always vented to the back though, which I don't like and which prevents them from doing a good job on desks or on bookshelves which seems kinda dumb to me. They're nice systems but they won't drive high impedance headphones well at all and they're not hifi rather just pleasant systems. I can't recommend them as a primary system.

 

[ADUHF]

I think I'm gettin fairly close to a decision at this point. Still not sure exactly what it is though.

One problem is that the stores keep runnin out of some of the items I'm most interested in, esp. the HPs. I am also looking outside of GC and BB now at other options.

Thank you again for all yer help gimmeheadroom.

 

[ADUHF]

Fwiw, I picked up the little Insignia NS-HZ313 digital-to-analog converter from BB to try converting the TOSLINK optical out on my TV to analog. And I can confirm that it works. And it sounds essentially the same as the TV's analog output.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insign...nalog-converter-black/4226000.p?skuId=4226000

The Insignia DAC supports sampling frequencies up to 96 kHz, in (L)PCM stereo only. Presumably 24-bit (though the docs don't actually mention that).

Even though I can't really hear much, if any, difference in sound quality, I'm glad I got this just to confirm that the TV's analog output is doing what it's supposed to. It's also nice to have another option for connecting to other audio gear, if I ever need it. Or if the analog out ever fails on the TV.

The TV outputs audio over both connections at the same time which made comparing them pretty easy. I just ran both connections into separate unbalanced RCA line inputs on a Yamaha MG10 mixer, and switched back and forth between them with the fader controls.

There is switch for selecting either the optical or coaxial inputs on the DAC btw, which needs to be set correctly to hear any sound. An easy feature to miss, if you're not paying close attention when setting it up.

The Insignia is obviously a very low-end DAC, with no support for higher sampling frequencies or multi-channel sound. So I'm not really recommending it. Just reporting my results, in case anyone's curious.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Glad you're making some progress. I guess ideally you would use the optical out right into a DAC and let the DAC handle the conversion.

 

[ADUHF]

Glad you're making some progress. I guess ideally you would use the optical out right into a DAC and let the DAC handle the conversion.

I think the Insignia NS-HZ313 does the same thing as pretty much any other standalone DAC (minus the headamp).

You get what you pay for though, as they say. So you probably won't get as high-quality conversion or sound from a $30 DAC as you might from a more expensive unit at 10 or 20 times the cost. They both serve the same function though.

I wouldn't mind trying a better quality DAC or DAC/Amp with the optical output. But haven't really found one in my price range so far that has all the features I need.

A digital receiver (with optical in) is always another option. But those also seem to be getting scarcer in my area as well. I visited two different Best Buys in a last few days, to see what they had on hand. And they were pretty much out of AVRs in my price range. And also running low on the more expensive models. So that's one of the reasons I've been focusing on some other approaches with mixers, and what have you.

 

[ADUHF]

I also picked up a little rack mountable 15-band DBX graphic EQ, the 215s, to try as well. But I don't think I'll really be needin it with most of the HP's I've been lookin at. The 2 and 3-band EQ controls on the mixers seem to be workin pretty well so far with the two Beyerdynamic DT-770's, and the AT M50x that I have at the moment.

I can't really use the M50x without replacing the stock pads though, because they are very uncomfortable on my ears. And make it very difficult to hear what I'm doing, and to get consistent results with those headphones.

An analog EQ like the 215s would certainly be less than ideal for my needs. But it might possibly come in handy in the short term, for trying a couple tweaks on the AKG K371 or Sennheiser HD 280 Pro, if I decide to give either of those HPs a try.

 

[ADUHF]

The other thing that I'm sort of lookin around for right now is just a basic no-frills solid state headphone amp with both balanced +4 dBU pro audio line level and unbalanced -10 dBV consumer line level analog inputs. Something with a nice flat response from about 10 to 25k Hz, and very low noise and distortion. And preferably switchable impedance settings. For the Beyers, I need something below 50 ohms. And ideally more in the 5 to 25 ohm range. The other HPs should work fine with anything in the 5 to 10 ohm range, or lower.

The maximum price I can probably afford is around $200. And I prefer to spend less than that, if possible.

 

[ADUHF]

Placed an order today for the Bellari HA543 headamp.

https://rolls.com/doc/manuals/manual_HA543.pdf

I think I've already mentioned this before, but Bellari is part of Rolls Corp. And they also make phono preamps and tube amps. You can check out the rest of their products here...

https://www.bellariaudio.com/index.php/products/

I asked the chap in techsup which would be better, the HA543 or one of their integrated products with the phono preamps and tone controls. The HA543 is the only one with balanced XLR inputs though. And he said the headamp in this unit is better than on the integrated products.

The output impedance is not listed in the specs, but he said it is ~0.9 ohms at 1 kHz, which is really too low to drive a pair of 250 ohm headphones like the DT-770's I'm using with maximum efficiency. The HA543 appears to have some pretty good power though. Up to 326 milliwatts per channel with a 62 ohm load according to the manual, which is alot more than the headamps on the mixers I'm using. So perhaps it'll work ok.

Comparison of the Bellari HA543 and some other devices with headphone amps. And their damping factors with 3 different pairs of headphones (shown in boldface)...

	Yamaha A/V Receivers (??):	Yamaha MG10 Mixer (110 ohms):	Mackie VLZ Mixers (60 ohms):	Yamaha MG06X Mixer (33 ohms):	Mackie Mix8 Mixer (22 ohms):	Bellari HA543 Headphone Amplifier (0.9 ohms):
Beyerdynamic DT-770 (250 ohms):	??	2.27	4.17	7.58	11.36	277.78
Beyerdynamic DT-770 (80 ohms):	??	0.73	1.33	2.42	3.64	88.89
AudioTechnica M50x (38 ohms):	??	0.35	.63	1.15	1.73	42.22
Max Power per Channel (Left or Right) Before Clipping:	??	100 mW (w/40 ohm load)	??	24 mW (w/40 ohm load)	??	326 mW (w/62 ohm load)

With a damping factor greater than 250(!), distortion should not only be inaudible, but essentially non-existent with the Bellari amp and 250 ohm DT-770. DF with the AT M50x is also quite good, and well below the threshold of audibility at 42.

I believe the "Enhance" option on the HA543 boosts the bass and treble, adding a Fletcher-Munson type effect. When that is turned off, the amp is supposed to be close to ruler flat in the audible frequency range.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I think the amp looks pretty good for the money. And I meant to say you got a nice choice in the dbx eq unit. They make great stuff.

 

[ADUHF]

I think the amp looks pretty good for the money.

The HA543 is about the only thing I can really afford at the moment.

There were a couple other more expensive models I was looking at like the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic. And also this little guy made by Crimson Audio, which appears to be basically a higher-end studio headamp.

https://crimsonaudio.com/products/

I like the combo XLR/1/4" balanced inputs on this unit better than the plain vanilla XLRs on the HA543. But I couldn't find any Head-Fi topics on it, or much other info on it. And couldn't justify spending an extra $250 just for the better connectors. (Plus, I'm a little more familiar with the Rolls products and folks.)

The Cambridge DACMagic has better audiophile features as well for about the same price as the above unit. And also looks like a very lovingly made product. Whereas the Crimson HPA100 looks like it's built more for durability and rougher use in a studio.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

The combo jacks are normally used on audio interfaces so you can run 1/4 inch TRS plugs at line level or XLR microphone cables for mic level.

I am not sure what the use case is on a headamp. Anyway, I hope you will be happy with the Rolls unit.