[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuroraProject /img/forum/go_quote.gif They can, you give them authorization when you agree to the Paypal TOS.

Can you link me to that? I don't see it in the TOS, but I could be missing it.

I do see this ( http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr.../terms-outside ) :Electronic Transfers. When you make a payment through PayPal that is funded by Instant Transfer or eCheck, and when you initiate an "Add Funds" transaction you are requesting an electronic transfer from your bank account. Upon such request, PayPal will make electronic transfers via the Automated Clearing House (ACH) system from your U.S. bank account in the amount you specify. You agree that such requests constitute your authorization for such transfers. PayPal will never make transfers from your bank account without your authorization.

I may have to reconsider my bank account link if that turns out to be true. But I don't think it is. I'd be surprised if that's in the agreement, and more surprised if that's legally enforceable.

 

[Blitzula]

I found it. That's surprising...I would sue if they did that.

Receipt of Payments; Risk of Reversal of Transactions; Collection of Funds you owe PayPal. When you receive a payment through the Service, unless you follow the steps necessary to qualify for our Seller Protection Policy described in Part VII of this User Agreement, you are not protected against a subsequent reversal of the transaction. In the event that the sender's transaction is reversed for any reason and you do not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy for that transaction, you will owe PayPal for the amount of the reversed transaction plus any fees imposed on PayPal as a result of the reversal. Examples of such a reversal include, but are not limited to, a credit card reversal by the sender of the payment, and a reversal of the transaction because the sender of the payment was using a stolen credit card or unauthorized bank account. PayPal will seek to recover the funds from you by debiting your PayPal balance and, if there are not sufficient funds in your PayPal balance, PayPal reserves the right to collect your debt to PayPal by any other legal means. If you open a Premier or Business Account after October 11, 2001, you authorize PayPal to debit your bank account linked to that PayPal account for the amount that you owe PayPal on transactions which were not covered by the Seller Protection Policy and which were not recoverable from your PayPal balance.

 

[infinitesymphony]

terrymx or others, could you describe what happens on the seller's end when a buyer begins a dispute? The PayPal account is put on hold, but is that all?

 

[GSurge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula /img/forum/go_quote.gif I found it. That's surprising...I would sue if they did that. Receipt of Payments; Risk of Reversal of Transactions; Collection of Funds you owe PayPal. When you receive a payment through the Service, unless you follow the steps necessary to qualify for our Seller Protection Policy described in Part VII of this User Agreement, you are not protected against a subsequent reversal of the transaction. In the event that the sender's transaction is reversed for any reason and you do not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy for that transaction, you will owe PayPal for the amount of the reversed transaction plus any fees imposed on PayPal as a result of the reversal. Examples of such a reversal include, but are not limited to, a credit card reversal by the sender of the payment, and a reversal of the transaction because the sender of the payment was using a stolen credit card or unauthorized bank account. PayPal will seek to recover the funds from you by debiting your PayPal balance and, if there are not sufficient funds in your PayPal balance, PayPal reserves the right to collect your debt to PayPal by any other legal means. If you open a Premier or Business Account after October 11, 2001, you authorize PayPal to debit your bank account linked to that PayPal account for the amount that you owe PayPal on transactions which were not covered by the Seller Protection Policy and which were not recoverable from your PayPal balance.

About a year ago when I opened an account, their recommended method of verifying your account was giving them your online banking login and password. (I'm serious.) You also had to agree to give them power of attorney.

 

[Mrvile]

Wow this is all pretty nuts...first, good luck to the OP. I don't know anything about the legal side of Paypal and can't offer any help, but I will be keeping up with this thread to see what happens. Keep us updated.

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSurge /img/forum/go_quote.gif About a year ago when I opened an account, their recommended method of verifying your account was giving them your online banking login and password. (I'm serious.) You also had to agree to give them power of attorney.

Wow. That's amazing. When I did it, you just had to give your ABA routing number and confirm the amount of some small deposits into your account.

I would imagine that if an amount was withdrawn from your banking account without specific authorization, the bank would reverse the entry upon request. That would be my first route if Paypal tried that.

 

[ecclesand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula /img/forum/go_quote.gif I found it. That's surprising...I would sue if they did that. Receipt of Payments; Risk of Reversal of Transactions; Collection of Funds you owe PayPal. When you receive a payment through the Service, unless you follow the steps necessary to qualify for our Seller Protection Policy described in Part VII of this User Agreement, you are not protected against a subsequent reversal of the transaction. In the event that the sender's transaction is reversed for any reason and you do not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy for that transaction, you will owe PayPal for the amount of the reversed transaction plus any fees imposed on PayPal as a result of the reversal. Examples of such a reversal include, but are not limited to, a credit card reversal by the sender of the payment, and a reversal of the transaction because the sender of the payment was using a stolen credit card or unauthorized bank account. PayPal will seek to recover the funds from you by debiting your PayPal balance and, if there are not sufficient funds in your PayPal balance, PayPal reserves the right to collect your debt to PayPal by any other legal means. If you open a Premier or Business Account after October 11, 2001, you authorize PayPal to debit your bank account linked to that PayPal account for the amount that you owe PayPal on transactions which were not covered by the Seller Protection Policy and which were not recoverable from your PayPal balance.

Ah...but that's for a Premier or Business Account. I have just the standard run-of-the-mill Paypal account. Does the OP have a Premier or Business Account?

 

[AuroraProject]

I think the best line of defense is to have a separate bank account just for Paypal, and when you transfer money from Paypal to that account, transfer it out and into your "regular" bank account. No funds in the Paypal account, and no funds in the linked bank account.

 

[terrymx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Febs /img/forum/go_quote.gif What did the feedback say? If it said anything at all about the product that you sent him, that would be compelling evidence that he received it.

he just said: fast deal thank you.

I replied three times to his claim already with no reply back, basicly he must know it and is waiting. I just asked him to reply in honesty and explain his situations since I have a vague idea of what's going on his side, and if there are further silence like this I will have to file my own claims to protect myself. It's hard for me to sound that sincere in situations like this.

About the bank account, if they actually is able to withdraw from my account, I won't have money in there, but I fear it will just become a negative balance and make me owe the bank money. But I am going to both the post office and bank tomorrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif terrymx or others, could you describe what happens on the seller's end when a buyer begins a dispute? The PayPal account is put on hold, but is that all?

It's the first time for me, they sent you a vaque email about the claim. You automatically get a negative or minus amount in your account. You cannot take out money, you cannot remove your bank or credit card account.

 

[Clutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif If your dispute goes much further I would contact the local police department (local to the buyer) and ask them what the procedure is for filing a mail fraud complaint. As far as I know it is a federal offense and not treated lightly.

That's an excellent idea. There was another problem with attempted mail fraud on here about a week ago and the police helped clean up that situation very quickly.

Get that scammer!

 

[Clutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuroraProject /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the best line of defense is to have a separate bank account just for Paypal, and when you transfer money from Paypal to that account, transfer it out and into your "regular" bank account. No funds in the Paypal account, and no funds in the linked bank account.

I think that's a good idea to protect yourself, but banks can put your account into the negative even if you don't have overdraft protection on your account. I've had problems with Air Canada when they double charged me for a vacation package (and wouldn't acknowledge it), but thankfully the credit card company backed me up.

 

[GSurge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutz /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's an excellent idea. There was another problem with attempted mail fraud on here about a week ago and the police helped clean up that situation very quickly. Get that scammer!

That involved a money order sent USPS though. I'm not sure how this would apply.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuroraProject /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, that puts you out of luck for the Paypal sellers protection program, they require signature confirmation. Basically they'll contact you to get your side of the story, be prepared to provide copies of everything involved with the sale and shipping. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but without their sellers protection coverage they almost always side with the buyer. I wish you luck with this one.

You do not need any signature, do not scare him, just send them the documents or copy of them and you will be done, USPS is perfectly fine with them indeed it is one of the methods they suggest while you get the payment for goods, UPS and USPS there is no other associated with them...Show them also that you got feedback which he can not withdraw now, as it is posted on ebay and period, I do not see how he could win honestly...Also you can given them a call...

 

[plainsong]

I he doesn't reply, I'd be tempted to go the police route. Paypal doesn't actually have any dispute system, it just looks like they do, and they nearly always side with the buyer.

My husband sells pocketpc skins for between €4-8 through Paypal, and once someone made a purchase, I sent the download info, and that was that. Then a couple of weeks later, that person opened a dispute. I looked up Paypal's terms at that time, and it turns out they aren't even suppose to arbitrate downloadable goods. I got someone by email at Paypal to actually admit this to me. But, there was no tracking number (of course, since it's downloadable), and the excuse the person used was that I never physically mailed the product, so the customer got a free skin suite out of it.

I entertained the notion that something went wrong and that email was never received. However it wasn't easy to find the customer's online presence and I sent to all of his known addresses with read receipts prooving the messages were read... but it didn't matter. None of that proof mattered, not even having Paypal admit they weren't supposed to interfere mattered.

Basically, the customer just wanted something for free and knew how to play the system. We shut down our store for some time after that. It's open again, but anyone else could do the same thing. Why use Paypal when there's Kagi or esellerate or any number of those systems? Because it's cheaper, because it would raise the price of the skins to more than we think people should pay.

I'd call the cops on this stinkyhole.

 

[Filburt]

USPS didn't require a signature due to the use of insurance?