[Spareribs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leny /img/forum/go_quote.gif Woo (with their 62% premium for a few capacitors 'upgrade' on the WA6) It stuns me that people keep falling for it. Oh well.

Woo Audio is a small group and makes amps one at a time basically with one amp builder, Wei Wu. They do not mass produce their amps like big industries and in order to survive and to make a living, the mark up should be high. They should be able to survive and be lucrative so they can dedicate their fulltime occupation in consistant quality products and customer service deadlines. In all fairness, Woo amps are priced very reasonable to begin with, with less $600 for an American made tube amp. In the world of tube amps, the price is usually higher unless you are looking at amps made in China which is a different economy.

If I want to, I can buy a great Chinese made amp and save money but I don't mind paying the extra cost of an American made product. I support American made products whenever I can since I live in America.

 

[thejoneser]

FWIW, my first amp purchase was from Headroom - a Micro amp with desktop module upgrade. And this was well before I'd ever heard of head-fi. Now, 2 years later, I've owned the Hornet, Pico, iQube and more and I find myself still going back to the Micro. Great stuff!

 

[Leny]

Ragonix: " What, are the cap upgrades from Woo Audio really 62% more money then if you buy it yourself? "

I just meant that the cost of the upgrade to a few capacitors, as offered by Woo on their WA6, is equivalent to an extra 62% of the purchase price of the basic amplifier. It illustrates how 'upgrades' can be disproportionately expensive.

Still, it's up to the buyer. 'Caveat emptor', as they say.

: )

 

[larry.said]

I have to admit that upgrades do seem appealing simply because the typical audiophile reaction is that price is proportional to quality. This is not necessarily true: expensive chips may sound terrible in certain circuitry while cheap chips can sound magnificent. I guess the one thing you learn from this hobby is that you can't judge until you have listened. Woo audio's craftsmanship is excellent and I don't mind paying the extra dollar to get a quality product that was hand crafted by someone who really knows what he's doing. Not everyone tin coats the tip of their wires before soldering. Its a question of quality.

 

[Drag0n]

Ive listened to Woo Audio amps, and met Jack , and there really isnt much at meets that wow me seriously,...But Woo Audio amps wow me at meets, and ive heard some of the big guns there that didnt wow me at all. My next home amp is a Woo2 for sure.

I want to hear Headrooms amps some time. I just havent seen any at the meets ive been to. Im very curious to hear their Millet, as i have a Mini Millet here, and i love it .

 

[orkney]

No, they aren't. Others have provided some excellent reasons why HR amps are worth the asking price. As a recent owner of a Desktop Balanced w/ DAC, here are mine:

* excellent sound
* elegant industrial/ergonomic design
* flawless day-to-day operation
* terrific customer service
* good resale value
* wide compatibility with a variety of headphones and sources
* compact, bulletproof build quality
* unique, perhaps market-leading product at its price point

I've owned plenty of other amps and some of them have ticked some of the above boxes. But none have ticked all of them like this HR amp has. HR products are among a select handful in our hobby whose balance of virtues appeals to me and I don't mind paying a small premium for that. So no, I don't think HR amps are overpriced. Not at all.

o

 

[Bones13]

You can pay more - you can pay less.
Subjectively you can get good quality - and not so good quality.

If the companies had an add on cost for great customer service, then perhaps your question would answer itself.

Headphone amps are a niche market, admit it, most folks would consider you crazy for not just listening to the headphone out of your motherboard audio system, or from the digital surround amp running your movie system.

Head-Fi signifies that there are some folks who prefer to try and do better. Headroom, to me shows the American quality of finding a niche market, learn from it, and produce the widget that serves that market. This type of company thrives with solid products, and solid customer service.

If you want a Wal-Mart widget (like most of America seems to want now, sigh...), then look for the biggest amp at the smallest price. Just don't look inside the big flashy box.

I have used (its with my son now) the Total Bit Head - still one of the best I have found to trust to a teenage boy, well built, easy to operate. I also have used (the other son uses it as headphone amp, and Dac/Preamp) a Desktop DAC/AMP. Solid device, upgradable if desired. This was my first HiFi headphone amp. I moved up to the Raptor (more expensive, and another nice American product) because I prefer the warmer tube sound.

Try not to discount a product because you feel the shot of the innards does not impress you. Read the boards here on the many reviews of this companies many products, which have stood the test of time in both build quality and technology.

 

[Palantiri7]

Um, although Leny did a very good job defending himself, and although I'm not in agreement with some of his views, a forum member's experience in the world of 'audiophilia nervosa' shouldn't be judged as directly proportional to the number of posts she/he has on this forum. I say this at the same time that I acknowledge the wealth of knowledge possessed by the prolific posters. Right, I feel better now...back to regularly scheduled programming.

 

[tfarney]

I can't speak to the whole line, but if the audiophile desktop is any indication, yeah, they might be over-priced. It doesn't take much of an investigation of the low-cost/high-end audiophile underground to know that $899 for a 50 watt class D power amp is way over the top.

Tim

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by orkney /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, they aren't. Others have provided some excellent reasons why HR amps are worth the asking price. As a recent owner of a Desktop Balanced w/ DAC, here are mine: * excellent sound * elegant industrial/ergonomic design * flawless day-to-day operation * terrific customer service * good resale value * wide compatibility with a variety of headphones and sources * compact, bulletproof build quality * unique, perhaps market-leading product at its price point I've owned plenty of other amps and some of them have ticked some of the above boxes. But none have ticked all of them like this HR amp has. HR products are among a select handful in our hobby whose balance of virtues appeals to me and I don't mind paying a small premium for that. So no, I don't think HR amps are overpriced. Not at all. o

Nice evaluation Orkney, but it doesn't hold a candle to the virtues of my vintage Harman Kardon integrated:

1. Very good sound
   Over the top 70s style with a million knobs and buttons
   Nearly flawless day to day operation for going on 12,775 days
   What customer?
   Great resale...but only on Audiokarma
   OK, probably not great for low impedance phones, but who needs 'em?
   Massive, desk-eating quality
   I've only got $55 in it. Well, in the last 20 years anyway
   
   
   
   
   
   Tim

 

[itsborken]

OP, if the value isn't there for you, don't buy it and look elsewhere. No where has Tyll stated his mission is to build the 'Volksamp'. He flys around the country for meets and sponsors Head-Fi. What do you think funds that level of participation?

 

[Soundinista]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Beware? Beware what? This is a good question to ask! [...]

Thanks, Kwkarth! I'm one of those who would have no interest in Head-Fi if a question such as the OP's were not welcome here. I'm not here for the joys of fanboyhood.

To the OP: No, not especially overpriced. (Orkney is just about right, IMHO.) Maybe their products are as overpriced as most good stuff in our hobby. But that's no cause for criticism, of course. It's what we voluntarily got ourselves into. Myself, I've been a satisfied HeadRoom customer for ten years now (several amps later, both portable and home units).

 

[Oberst Oswald]

Being new here and have been out of hi-fi audio for a very long time my opinion will not hold much credibility. But... I was in the market for a DAC and was a mouse click away from buying a HR Ultra Micro at $700. What got me was a $110.00 upgrade to a better power supply that was recommended. It irked me to no end knowing that even with their "Ultra" product they found a way to bleed a few extra bucks by planting in your head that the item you sweated & toiled for is going to be "second fiddle". That reason, for better or worst, had me reconsider my choice and bought a Stello DA100 instead.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberst Oswald /img/forum/go_quote.gif Being new here and have been out of hi-fi audio for a very long time my opinion will not hold much credibility. But... I was in the market for a DAC and was a mouse click away from buying a HR Ultra Micro at $700. What got me was a $110.00 upgrade to a better power supply that was recommended. It irked me to no end knowing that even with their "Ultra" product they found a way to bleed a few extra bucks by planting in your head that the item you sweated & toiled for is going to be "second fiddle". That reason, for better or worst, had me reconsider my choice and bought a Stello DA100 instead.

So in other words, too many choices turned you off. It is a marketing phenomena that has been observed many times before. More choices typically appeals to analytical, engineering types, but chases many others away.

 

[vcoheda]

i actually think most amps if purchased new are a bit too pricey. the FS forum is your friend.