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Headphones for metal music - ultimate solution
Dec 1, 2015 at 1:02 PM Post #2,957 of 12,308
Dec 1, 2015 at 3:31 PM Post #2,958 of 12,308
My point really is more neutral to relaxed in the treble headphones will let you listen to death and black metal longer at the average level they were mixed at (usually 80-90db even if the guitars were tracked ridiculously loud like with Swedish death metal) without ear fatigue as the cymbals and snare frequently are the loudest parts of a good mix, cutting through the guitar distortion. Haphazard drum micing in quick and dirty professional or amateur productions is where most of the recording problems happen which is why you'll often see competent drummers get fully sample replaced like Ken Owen and Nick Menza; they often don't have the money and time to go back and retrack it or just don't care. Those peaks will be accentuated by the frequency response of cans with emphasized treble and since it's metal, there will be a lot of them. If they're clipped like on Demilich's Nespithe, Blasphemy's Fallen Angel of Doom, or Order From Chaos's An Ending in Fire (the latter two reissued by NWN! this year), you might even have trouble listening to an entire album at a realistic level. I had this problem with a DT 880 pro 250 ohms and HD 25s. I couldn't even get through Dismember's Override of the Overture on an HD 800, the snare and cymbals were just too much.
 
Accentuated treble will also highlight recording artifacts that will just be there otherwise that the band might have thought were acceptable enough to not bother fixing. This is what people mean by terms like "treble spikes of false detail" that are deliberately left into some studio cans like the Sony 7506 (meant for location monitoring of spoken word recordings) as they will just bring the flaws to the forefront so they can just fix it right away. For example there's a tape flub or something on the introductory solo to Dismember's "Dismembered" off of Like an Ever Flowing Stream to use a death metal example. On speakers and HD 600s, it's just briefly there and not a big deal. On the HD 800 and Beyers, it's THERE, LOUD, AND IN YOUR FACE! Another example many HD 800 owners have complained about is the cash register in Pink Floyd's "Money" obviously coming from a separate tape. You can tell on near fields (I checked myself) but it's not a big deal; on the HD 800 it's in your face. This is what is meant by the need for pristine recordings with certain headphones. The bands, producers, and engineers simply do not care about if someone can listen to their records on very bright TOTL audiophile headphones that are euphonically voiced for the typical audiophile you see at trade shows listening to warmed over orchestral recordings and Diana Krall. Metal and rock bands usually just mixed/mastered the albums to sound acceptable to great on monitor speakers and will check if they can hear the core of the music (guitars, vocals, main drum beat) on crap like NS-10s, car speakers, and now ear buds. The Beatles used to check test pressings on the standard all in one, British wooded mono record players of the early 60s and the only question was "Does it actually play?"
 
Quote:
hansotek said:
   
Yeah.
 
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Well you could consider the ZMFs to go beyond mods and just be entirely new headphones that happen to share the same drivers. I had no idea they used Fostex T50rp drivers until yesterday despite being aware of the brand's existence. They're still limited by Fostex's drivers and loose manufacturing tolerances for them. Stock T40/50 I've heard have all sounded different (some very good for studio headphones) and all were originally bought by musician and sound guy type friends as they happened to be discounted below stuff like the HD 280, DT 770, and AKG 240/271 or they just wanted to try another brand. Fostex increasing QC might price them out of that market.

I'll have to check them out someday (along with the Fostex x Massdrop) as most of the previous "sounds better than the standard studio headphones" type stuff for >$300 like the Mad Dogs, PM-3, Focal Spirits, and Sennheiser Momentums and aluminum HD 25 variants had issues.
 
Dec 1, 2015 at 3:59 PM Post #2,959 of 12,308
psalmanazar said:
  My point really is more neutral to relaxed in the treble headphones will let you listen to death and black metal longer at the average level they were mixed at (usually 80-90db even if the guitars were tracked ridiculously loud like with Swedish death metal) without ear fatigue as the cymbals and snare frequently are the loudest parts of a good mix, cutting through the guitar distortion. Haphazard drum micing in quick and dirty professional or amateur productions is where most of the recording problems happen which is why you'll often see competent drummers get fully sample replaced like Ken Owen and Nick Menza; they often don't have the money and time to go back and retrack it or just don't care. Those peaks will be accentuated by the frequency response of cans with emphasized treble and since it's metal, there will be a lot of them. If they're clipped like on Demilich's Nespithe, Blasphemy's Fallen Angel of Doom, or Order From Chaos's An Ending in Fire (the latter two reissued by NWN! this year), you might even have trouble listening to an entire album at a realistic level. I had this problem with a DT 880 pro 250 ohms and HD 25s. I couldn't even get through Dismember's Override of the Overture on an HD 800, the snare and cymbals were just too much.
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This is why I bought the LCD-2 after owning Grado SR325is for a while. I love the Grado sound, but I can't listen to metal on those headphones for more than an hour or two without going insane. The LCD-2 has accurate, but slightly recessed treble with a super accurate midbass and warm low end. It makes metal sound so much more palatable and natural. There's no tin can type of effect. There's no shrill crash and ride crap that drowns everything out. I can't think of a better headphone for almost any kind of metal. Reading all of the differeint opinions on how the LCD-2 bothers people is very interesting to me, as well as the HD650.
 
Couldn't agree more about Nuclear Blast as well. It's a blessing and a curse that so many bands are doing mastering for ear buds, because it makes their music sound like crap on our rigs, but at the same time it makes the experience better for probably 95% of metalheads. I only know a couple of metalheads that have decent headphones and everyone else I know either uses the earbuds that came with their phone or they have a sub $50 pair of headphones they bought at a supermarket.
 
Dec 1, 2015 at 4:09 PM Post #2,960 of 12,308
I think this whole fiasco brings up a good point actually. 
 
What kinda irks me about this whole hobby, which don't get me wrong, is quite an interesting and fun one, is the fact how some minute detail could derail all of the positives some gear may have. Yes things can have their weaknesses and they can cripple the overall performance ability of the gear but thats kinda what you have to expect really. Most, if not all, serious gear will do many things right, but they may have to sacrifice certain aspects in order to do so. 
 
I don't know just food for thought. 
 
Dec 2, 2015 at 2:34 AM Post #2,962 of 12,308
emester said:
 
What kinda irks me about this whole hobby, which don't get me wrong, is quite an interesting and fun one, is the fact how some minute detail could derail all of the positives some gear may have. Yes things can have their weaknesses and they can cripple the overall performance ability of the gear but thats kinda what you have to expect really. Most, if not all, serious gear will do many things right, but they may have to sacrifice certain aspects in order to do so. 
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Which is why I prefer speakers most of the time.
 
Dec 2, 2015 at 6:10 AM Post #2,964 of 12,308
henkie196 said:
Which is why I prefer speakers most of the time.
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Are u kidding? NEVER heard a perfect speaker either. Then u have room size, interaction, wall dampening (treatments), frequency response issues....also EXPENSE!! I sold my big amps and B&W 802D speakers and went without for a long time. Then found the JBL LSR308 powered monitors. The JBLs are cheap but sound surprisingly good. Im done chasing perfect sound...yeah right!!!
 
Dec 2, 2015 at 7:50 AM Post #2,965 of 12,308
fido2 said:
Are u kidding? NEVER heard a perfect speaker either. Then u have room size, interaction, wall dampening (treatments), frequency response issues....also EXPENSE!! I sold my big amps and B&W 802D speakers and went without for a long time. Then found the JBL LSR308 powered monitors. The JBLs are cheap but sound surprisingly good. Im done chasing perfect sound...yeah right!!!
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Sure, room acoustics and room size are extra complications when listening to speakers. But comfort issues are also an extra complication for headphones. And frequency response issues is the main reason I haven't really found a headphone that I like as much as my speakers. It's appears to be quite difficult to find headphones that actually sound like they have a flat frequency response curve (to my ears, that is).
 
I've not heard perfect speakers either, but my speakers come a lot closer to perfection (for my ears, at least), than any headphone I've heard. Maybe if I tried a Stax SR-009, it would sound better to me, but that also costs significantly more than my speaker setup. But for now, my HD800 is good enough, though not quite as satisfying to listen to as my speakers.
 
Dec 2, 2015 at 8:43 AM Post #2,967 of 12,308
I generally like the HD800 - and yes, also for metal - but it would be better if there wasn't a peak in the treble. It's alright for me most of the time, partly also because I tend to listen at low volumes, but it can become quite uncomfortable at higher volumes (depending on the track, of course).
 
I also don't really want to drop that much money on a SR-009 setup (+ amp), but luckily for me, I'm usually ok with just "good enough"
wink.gif

 
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