I don't mind spending the money on the lcd-4 if it's worth it. I honestly didn't know there were any reviews of it up yet. I work in photography so I'm used to dealing with expensive gear. I suppose it has more to do with how much it improves over the lcd-3. I know cameras, so I know when I spend 6 grand on a Nikon D-4, I can understand where that money is going. But with headphones I'm lost! For instance the 2 grand difference between the lcd-3 and lcd-4, I don't know where that is going. I wish I could understand headphones like I do cameras. I suppose research and time will change that but at the same time I am eager to jump in. At the present the most I've ever spent on headphones is $100. But I spend a lot of time at home with my music going and I want this wonderful experience people describe.
In the headphone world, anything more expensive than $300-500 is going to be a subject of diminishing returns, very much so. I wouldn't recommend getting head on into the most expensive stuff just because you can.
I can relate, I used to own a Nikon D800 and LCD-2, but now I'm absolutely content with Fuji mirrorless and Fidelio X2, both many times less expensive. Start slow and get there gradually (if you want). But don't expect miracles once you go past certain amount of $$. The hype is too strong sometimes and people jump on the bandwagon, throwing money away like there's no tomorrow.
So I read this over and I found it very helpful. Thanks to all involved.
Still I have one question: If you mostly listen to high quality recordings of doom metal and you could buy 1 pair of headphones, what would they be? I'm not worried about the cost, just the quality.
High quality, eh. SR-009. Barring that, Abyss may fit your taste. At this level, I wouldn't actually recommend buying blind nor going based on a persons or
a consensus judgement. Hear it yourself, however you have to work that out and come to your own conclusions.
I don't mind spending the money on the lcd-4 if it's worth it. I honestly didn't know there were any reviews of it up yet. I work in photography so I'm used to dealing with expensive gear. I suppose it has more to do with how much it improves over the lcd-3. I know cameras, so I know when I spend 6 grand on a Nikon D-4, I can understand where that money is going. But with headphones I'm lost! For instance the 2 grand difference between the lcd-3 and lcd-4, I don't know where that is going. I wish I could understand headphones like I do cameras. I suppose research and time will change that but at the same time I am eager to jump in. At the present the most I've ever spent on headphones is $100. But I spend a lot of time at home with my music going and I want this wonderful experience people describe.
In the headphone world, anything more expensive than $300-500 is going to be a subject of diminishing returns, very much so. I wouldn't recommend getting head on into the most expensive stuff just because you can.
I can relate, I used to own a Nikon D800 and LCD-2, but now I'm absolutely content with Fuji mirrorless and Fidelio X2, both many times less expensive. Start slow and get there gradually (if you want). But don't expect miracles once you go past certain amount of $$. The hype is too strong sometimes and people jump on the bandwagon, throwing money away like there's no tomorrow.
Anything more expensive than a pair of free Apple Earbuds is going to be subject to diminishing returns, homie. It's not like you have to spend $4K to get good sound. You can get awesome stuff for much less. But dude asked about the best of the best. IMO, the LCD-4 is the end game of all full-size headphones, at the moment.
It's also worth pointing out that there is a danger in the other path, too. Headroom nailed it when they said, "It's better to cry once." I can't tell you how many thousands of dollars I've blown on mid-fi side-grades (see the equipment list in my profile). I'd happily trade all of them for one good headphone. You only have 2 ears, after all.
If I had my pick of any headphones, regardless of price, for my four specific needs, they would be the following:
Work: Mr. Speakers Ether
Neutral with a hint of warmth, clean sound and well-defined imaging would give me a good reference for mixing and mastering applications, and still be enjoyable for music.
Home: LCD-4
This is all about maximizing enjoyment, and these are the most enjoyable headphones I have heard. Period.
Mobile: Noble Kaiser 10
My favorite IEM, without question. Does it all - speed, impact, romantic mids - this is my desert island headphone.
Gaming: HD800
The soundstage is so immersive. It puts you in the game world like no other. It's also super light and comfortable for hours on end.
Obviously, that's $8,500 worth of equipment, but if we're talking best-of-the-best, those are the items I would choose.
If we are aiming for one headphone under $300, that is a different challenge entirely. I never try and push my own agenda on someone who is asking for a recommendation (I don't really have one anyway, I just want people to be happy). I only recommend a headphone that is over budget if it is within $100-$200 and really nails all the other aspects of their requirements.
High quality, eh. SR-009. Barring that, Abyss may fit your taste. At this level, I wouldn't actually recommend buying blind nor going based on a persons or
a consensus judgement. Hear it yourself, however you have to work that out and come to your own conclusions.
I'm not huge on the SR-009 (don't get me wrong, it is great, just not my cup-o-tea - but it just further illustrates the next point)... +1000 on the rest of the post.
It's not a good idea to spend $2K, $3K, $4K, $5K blind. People hear things very differently and have different subjective preferences. Find a way to hear it. There are no absolutes. If you want to buy a flagship, the manufacturers will be more than happy to help accommodate you. Plus, there lots of meet-ups, shows, etc., which are a lot of fun and let you hear many things.
I'm not huge on the SR-009 (don't get me wrong, it is great, just not my cup-o-tea - but it just further illustrates the next point)... +1000 on the rest of the post.
It's not a good idea to spend $2K, $3K, $4K, $5K blind. People hear things very differently and have different subjective preferences. Find a way to hear it. There are no absolutes. If you want to buy a flagship, the manufacturers will be more than happy to help accommodate you. Plus, there lots of meet-ups, shows, etc., which are a lot of fun and let you hear many things.
We can only share our opinions, which are biased by our preferences. It's up to you to do your best deduction, but hearing it yourself is everything.
my 2c.
The 009 is the best headphone, bar none. It doesn't excel in any one genre, it masters everything.
You want the detail, speed, finesse, resolution to see into the recording. 009 is your ticket. With that, you get all the nitty gritty of schiit recordings.
What's more; the bass on the 009 is very precise and more detailed than any planar I've heard.
But perhaps you prefer more bass quantity at the expense of the rest of the frequency. Well, the LCD's aren't neutral but quite bass heavy. They have shelved treble
and a small stage so you're losing ultimate resolution. But perhaps you would prefer that more intimate presentation.
If you want moar bass, look into the M audio or JVC. If you want more air and detail, perhaps you'd like the Koss 950 as a middle ground. Here you can split
your chain into two worlds.
The 009 is niche. Requires specific amplification. But it's rivaled by none performance wise.
I would not recommend Audez'e. They're simply inconsistent after years they haven't quite gotten QC under wraps.
In that regard, you'd be better off with an HE-6 or perhaps the HE-1000.
But really, if you're serious about 'the best,' whatever that is, pony up, bring the gears into your home. Find your truth, part ways with whatever doesn't fit your taste.
I don't mind spending the money on the lcd-4 if it's worth it. I honestly didn't know there were any reviews of it up yet. I work in photography so I'm used to dealing with expensive gear. I suppose it has more to do with how much it improves over the lcd-3. I know cameras, so I know when I spend 6 grand on a Nikon D-4, I can understand where that money is going. But with headphones I'm lost! For instance the 2 grand difference between the lcd-3 and lcd-4, I don't know where that is going. I wish I could understand headphones like I do cameras. I suppose research and time will change that but at the same time I am eager to jump in. At the present the most I've ever spent on headphones is $100. But I spend a lot of time at home with my music going and I want this wonderful experience people describe.
For camera's, you can do research on the internet, look at some photos, look at the specs, and get a fair idea of whether the D810 or the D4 is what you need, for instance.
For headphones, you can read people's opinions all day, but you still won't know if you'll like the sound. You may get a fair idea of what the headphones may sound like (in general terms, like warm, neutral, bright), but it's all still highly subjective. And there's generally a lot of hyperbole on these forums, and the diminishing returns really do hit hard above the $400-$500 mark. You really need to hear it for yourself in order to know if it sounds like what you want and if it's worth the price.
It gets even worse when you start thinking about DACs and amps. Many here seem to spend more on their DACs and amps than they do on their headphones, but the differences are generally only very slight. Diminishing returns hit even harder in this department.
I'm not huge on the SR-009 (don't get me wrong, it is great, just not my cup-o-tea - but it just further illustrates the next point)... +1000 on the rest of the post.
It's not a good idea to spend $2K, $3K, $4K, $5K blind. People hear things very differently and have different subjective preferences. Find a way to hear it. There are no absolutes. If you want to buy a flagship, the manufacturers will be more than happy to help accommodate you. Plus, there lots of meet-ups, shows, etc., which are a lot of fun and let you hear many things.
We can only share our opinions, which are biased by our preferences. It's up to you to do your best deduction, but hearing it yourself is everything.
my 2c.
The 009 is the best headphone, bar none. It doesn't excel in any one genre, it masters everything.
You want the detail, speed, finesse, resolution to see into the recording. 009 is your ticket. With that, you get all the nitty gritty of schiit recordings.
What's more; the bass on the 009 is very precise and more detailed than any planar I've heard.
But perhaps you prefer more bass quantity at the expense of the rest of the frequency. Well, the LCD's aren't neutral but quite bass heavy. They have shelved treble
and a small stage so you're losing ultimate resolution. But perhaps you would prefer that more intimate presentation.
If you want moar bass, look into the M audio or JVC. If you want more air and detail, perhaps you'd like the Koss 950 as a middle ground. Here you can split
your chain into two worlds.
The 009 is niche. Requires specific amplification. But it's rivaled by none performance wise.
I would not recommend Audez'e. They're simply inconsistent after years they haven't quite gotten QC under wraps.
In that regard, you'd be better off with an HE-6 or perhaps the HE-1000.
But really, if you're serious about 'the best,' whatever that is, pony up, bring the gears into your home. Find your truth, part ways with whatever doesn't fit your taste.
FWIW, the LCD-4 is the only Audeze I've really liked. Have you heard it?
The lack of treble bothers me on the other Audezes, but the LCD-4 is quite, quite good, with a more electrostatic-like treble presentation. I strongly dislike the LCD-3, in my short experience with it, as the air seems choked off to an unnatural level. I haven't made a hard judgement on it though. The pre-fazor LCD-2 can be good, with the right cable, but it's not on the level of some other flagships.
I've heard the SR-009 with 2 setups: the Blue Hawaii and the Woo. Again, it's good, but it has a few specific issues. It's a bit light on impact, but not enough to be a deal breaker. The thing that irked me was the lack of depth. It sounded completely 2 dimensional with zero frontal projection on both setups. Other than that, there's not much to complain about, but that was a bit of a deal breaker. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it did not pass. I'd like to hear it again, but I'm not as optimistic for attempt 3.
I love the HE-6. The HE-1000 isn't great with metal, in my experience. I'm a big HFM fanboy, but if you think HiFiMAN doesn't have QC issues too... well, you should read more.
FWIW, the LCD-4 is the only Audeze I've really liked. Have you heard it?
The lack of treble bothers me on the other Audezes, but the LCD-4 is quite, quite good, with a more electrostatic-like treble presentation. I strongly dislike the LCD-3, in my short experience with it, as the air seems choked off to an unnatural level. I haven't made a hard judgement on it though. The pre-fazor LCD-2 can be good, with the right cable, but it's not on the level of some other flagships.
I've heard the SR-009 with 2 setups: the Blue Hawaii and the Woo. Again, it's good, but it has a few specific issues. It's a bit light on impact, but not enough to be a deal breaker. The thing that irked me was the lack of depth. It sounded completely 2 dimensional with zero frontal projection on both setups. Other than that, there's not much to complain about, but that was a bit of a deal breaker. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it did not pass. I'd like to hear it again, but I'm not as optimistic for attempt 3.
I love the HE-6. The HE-1000 isn't great with metal, in my experience. I'm a big HFM fanboy, but if you think HiFiMAN doesn't have QC issues too... well, you should read more.
So everything is comparative. When I think about the 009 bass - it's completely tactile and satisfying. Compared the the LCD's, which feel more emphasized
the 009 is bass light.
The same with the LCD-4. Is it the most detailed open sounding LCD I've heard, yes. Is it approachable to the resolution and air the 009 provide, no.
Maybe it was the meet conditions? I know I heard the Abyss at RMAF years back and wasn't so impressed. I got to spend time with it in-house and my experience
was quite a bit different. Either way I rather evaluate gear in my home over some time.
That's the confirmation I needed. Thank you very much for taking some time to answer me, I really appreciated that. Next week I'm going for the Shure's!
Totally disagree. My D7000s sound great with metal. They give weight and substance to a lot of generally thin sounding mixes, yet they reproduce good mixes in an accurate and very enjoyable manner. LCD-2 also works very well.
High quality, eh. SR-009. Barring that, Abyss may fit your taste. At this level, I wouldn't actually recommend buying blind nor going based on a persons or
a consensus judgement. Hear it yourself, however you have to work that out and come to your own conclusions.
I have agoraphobia at this point in my life and I'm ashamed and embarrassed to admit that I cannot get to a store to hear these headphones. So I have to do whatever research I can and try to make a decision. I don't want to do a lot of buying and reselling so I'm trying to use online resources to make the decision.
In the headphone world, anything more expensive than $300-500 is going to be a subject of diminishing returns, very much so. I wouldn't recommend getting head on into the most expensive stuff just because you can.
I can relate, I used to own a Nikon D800 and LCD-2, but now I'm absolutely content with Fuji mirrorless and Fidelio X2, both many times less expensive. Start slow and get there gradually (if you want). But don't expect miracles once you go past certain amount of $$. The hype is too strong sometimes and people jump on the bandwagon, throwing money away like there's no tomorrow.
The other school of thought. Which I really think is valid, but have not had the discipline to follow is to do your research, save and get exactly what you want. You know like people you see who live frugally for years, even living with their parents for decades and then when the time is right go out and buy a half million dollar home with cash
I see that attitude more in the realm of high end speaker system audio. But, that's my bias. If I were to spend 4K on a component, it would be speakers for sure.
If any one thing I have learned here is that source matters most. I know that today we are blessed with many easy to drive headphone sets which can be diven "OK" off a phone.
That said, I'm always amazed at how hindsight is 20/20 in this hobby. It's like you plug a set of low cost headphones into a portable rig, get excited about the music and sound signature and away you go, excited and blind. Only after six months take the same set of headphones and test them on a clear home rig and notice the major sonic warts.
The word synergy is a word used way too much around here. Though if the "synergy" lets you enjoy a less than perfect rig at close to perfect levels, then all is well.
Once someone attempts to listen to metal in the megabuck arena new stuff starts to become clear. I remember listening to Zeppelin on a 100K system. The system was maybe better for classical and Jazz, but I could hear every part of the drum mix. It was a new experience listening to music I had heard 100s of times. Little tiny drum details were actually there in the old recording. The layers of detail became much like hearing the rows of musicians playing a complex orchestra piece.
In a 100K speaker rig, the focus became not on the music but the tiny details. Zeppelin became a different animal and had a new look. Was it better? Did it reveal the music soul? I came away thinking that your really don't need to hear Zeppelin at such clarity? Still though folks now spend tons of money on new HD recordings and Jimmy Page remixes trying to get to the same sonic place?
In the end it is all about knowing your favorite color. Cameras the same way. Canon has a super detail and Nikon has a warmth. Today you can use Photoshop to correct barrel distortion or color distortion getting fantastic results from kit lens purchases. Much of the time cheaper DSLRs are lighter and easy to use, due to size?
There are no perfect headphones, only enjoyable color to enjoy. Still if your source is not accurate, your wandering in the woods with each new headphone purchase only showing you another view of the fuzzy window glass.
The other school of thought. Which I really think is valid, but have not had the discipline to follow is to do your research, save and get exactly what you want. You know like people you see who live frugally for years, even living with their parents for decades and then when the time is right go out and buy a half million dollar home with cash
I see that attitude more in the realm of high end speaker system audio. But, that's my bias. If I were to spend 4K on a component, it would be speakers for sure.
Research alone will not get you there, unfortunately. I'm actually of the type to look around carefully (and over a longer time), to get exactly what I want. It took me many auditioning sessions and more than a year to find the speakers that I really wanted. Argueably, I still haven't found exactly what I want in headphones, but at least I have exactly what I want in speakers. I would also not spend 4K on a headphone, though I did spend more than that on speakers.
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