[aldavey]

There is plenty of pricey gear out there, and I’m sure some people here run spectacular price sources and DACs into Stax and other headphones.

There have been a few posters who salivated at the hint that Mjolnir might produce an over the top electrostatic amp. I do love my Carbon.

+1

 

[astrostar59]

Sure, but in the context of other commercially available electrostatic amps out their, we are presented with something that is 6x the price hike. So it goes without saying we can do one or all of these things:

1. Stand in awe at the absolute best electrostatic amplifier ever created by man to date.
2. Look further than the case work and consider the design of it (mainly by referring to those who know such things over at the other forum) and comparing it with other respected and already established designs.
3. Do some basic maths on how much it may have cost in parts x development x labour and see if it gets to at least 30% of the asking price.

If any or all of these criterion are fulfilled to the best of our knowledge, then it merits a demo or even consider a purchase.

Interestingly, iSquirrel last posts I read, he preferred the Abyss out of the Woo WA234 amp (fed by his Select II DAC). Not saying anything, just if the MSB amp was the absolute best amp ever for the Stax, maybe he would not have that opinion?

 

[SeaWo|f]

i happen to own the MSB Select II with 2 power supplies and the clock upgrade. while not any audio bargain, it walks it's talk in the performance neighborhood it competes in, and is a fantastically satisfying piece of audio gear to live with. if you are ever in the Seattle area you are welcome to come hear it.

not heard the MSB Select II Stat amp so i cannot comment. i have heard the MSB mono block amplifiers a number of times; and they are very fine; and while not cheap either they compete at a high level with other similarly prices amplifiers. if you have not investigated products like these, then realize maybe you are not in a position to judge.

i would suggest to actually listen to the performance of something prior to passing judgement. not that i expect that to happen, it's just my suggestion.

I think you are missing the point, It really does not come down to whether or not it sounds good. The problem comes in the ever increasing unjustified mark ups; we have seen this in the 2 channel part of audio already. It never ends and the consumer loses out. In 2 channel this started to happen well before the advent of the internet age. So as long as neither dealers nor press called out these companies nothing stood in they way of ever escalating prices. Shockingly while this went on each of these 3 parties fed into it because all of their pockets are linked together. The biggest problem with saying something competes well in its price category is that the entire market is hyper inflated and all top of the line gear is at that price. So when everyone is playing at a 1000x cost mark up we are not just calling out MSB; it is a call out of the industry.
Now with online communities the consumers have a place to interact with each other, members of press and the industry to push back against those parties who attempt to take us for a ride. Even in these instances their are a few things that rational consumers have to fight against. The first being the expectation bias set by the price, the manufacturer and press, the second the group think that starts to happen because a large portion of people will simply latch onto what is told to them by those previously referenced parties and third being those consumers who don't want to do any actually research or critical thinking so they simply go out and buy the most expensive thing they can find because that has the best sounding thing right?
I honestly would be overwhelmed by what is out on the net if I was newly entering this market. Trying to make sense of it is becoming an impossible task. There are still a few parties offering top of the line gear at rational prices. IMO Justin is one of those people(look at a BHSE BOM and add in a custom chassis), his BHSE is the finest performing stats amp I have heard. He has his work cut out for him with regards to new stats all tube amp that he is rumored to be working on. I also hope when/if that arrives he can continue making the BHSE as at this level ones personal preference comes into play a lot I think.

 

[DSNORD]

Would appreciate it if a BHSE owner could measure the FOOT spacing dimensions of the amp and PS for me. I don’t need the units overall dimensions since I already have them.

While waiting for my BHSE to be built, I’m looking at some placement options and likely will need to build some secondary supports in certain locations if the units are placed there. With these numbers in hand, I can fire up the table saw now for something to do in the meantime.

Thanks guys.

 

[SeaWo|f]

The exact measurements of both units are under specifications on the head amp BHSE page.

Edit : I would quote them here but I'm at the gym and doing so on my phone is a bit of a pain

 

[alcyst]

Sea wolf, ive no idea where the cutoff for “increasing unjustified mark ups” starts, or ends. I know I have a pair of wheels on my bicycle that most fellow club members think are a bit insane, they are great. Unjustified is a different problem.

Coincidentally, I was just browsing and stumbled across this report;

https://www.audiostream.com/content/rmaf-2017-msb-technology

 

[SeaWo|f]

I live in Reno NV so I am quite familiar with the pricing for road bikes. I can say for me more than is reasonable starts at quite a bit less than 10x materials, machining and labor.
I'm a dirtbiker(enduro cross training type riding) so I don't partake. But I have a friend with more money than he can spend so he builds 1-3 new road bikes a season. He built 2 this year and has only been riding like 8 times. His cost is often more than mine for building a new 300 2T bike.

Home now DSNORD looks like I miss understood what you were asking. What kind of stand are you constructing for it that you need exact foot locations? Sounds interesting!

 

[Mossback]

I think you are missing the point, It really does not come down to whether or not it sounds good. The problem comes in the ever increasing unjustified mark ups; we have seen this in the 2 channel part of audio already. It never ends and the consumer loses out. In 2 channel this started to happen well before the advent of the internet age. So as long as neither dealers nor press called out these companies nothing stood in they way of ever escalating prices. Shockingly while this went on each of these 3 parties fed into it because all of their pockets are linked together. The biggest problem with saying something competes well in its price category is that the entire market is hyper inflated and all top of the line gear is at that price. So when everyone is playing at a 1000x cost mark up we are not just calling out MSB; it is a call out of the industry.
Now with online communities the consumers have a place to interact with each other, members of press and the industry to push back against those parties who attempt to take us for a ride. Even in these instances their are a few things that rational consumers have to fight against. The first being the expectation bias set by the price, the manufacturer and press, the second the group think that starts to happen because a large portion of people will simply latch onto what is told to them by those previously referenced parties and third being those consumers who don't want to do any actually research or critical thinking so they simply go out and buy the most expensive thing they can find because that has the best sounding thing right?
I honestly would be overwhelmed by what is out on the net if I was newly entering this market. Trying to make sense of it is becoming an impossible task. There are still a few parties offering top of the line gear at rational prices. IMO Justin is one of those people(look at a BHSE BOM and add in a custom chassis), his BHSE is the finest performing stats amp I have heard. He has his work cut out for him with regards to new stats all tube amp that he is rumored to be working on. I also hope when/if that arrives he can continue making the BHSE as at this level ones personal preference comes into play a lot I think.

so you personally feel great about the value equation of the BHSE. great. and I agree. but maybe not everyone would.

I'm just saying the same things you might say to someone questioning how you can be crazy enough to spend over $6k for a headphone amplifier. lots of people would write exactly the same thing you wrote, just change the names. it only depends on where you sit personally as to how you view it.

just like that person, you ignore even the idea that it might be worth it to someone and just dismiss it as some sort of sin against man. and you assume that the buyer has not done his or her homework and made the right buying decision for themselves because you don't understand it.

if you want to really make an intelligent point then investigate the whole picture of the MSB Select II and the Headphone amplifier and make a case that it's not worth it. but wait; that actually takes a little effort and we know it's easier just to shoot from the hip. which is why we need to ignore the price and look at what the darn product does. there will always be laws of diminishing returns. whether it's audio gear, or watches, or boats, or airplanes, or wine......the very best will cost you plenty. and you will pay ever increasing dollars for ever smaller increments of performance increase. the decision to actually pay that cost is personal based on that individuals priorities.

the highest end audio is not purchased by the very rich guys. it's the people who are really committed to the hobby and are all in to it. these are not casual purchases with money found in the sofa. it hurts to spend the money. and lots of thought behind these purchase.....just like a BHSE customer.

 

[SeaWo|f]

Nope you are missing my point. I don't care what the total price ends up being.. if MSB can show me that they spend between 15-20k to build the estat amp I am good with it. Orbitz makes a damn good piece of gum but I am not paying 1k for a pack. YMMV and If they do that and price me out of the gum market you bet I will complain about it. The hot chix in the commercials may sway me but this is unlikely.

 

[DSNORD]

Sea Wolf,

Looks like the BHSE will start out in my home office. I have an L shaped computer desk/ hutch setup with the corner of the L being at a 45 degree angle. That 45 degree section of the shelf is about 11 inches wide and deep. Because of the 45 degree angle, the wall’s corner sits back about 1.5 feet, so I have room to recess the amp to a degree. The amp will sit on it.

If the amp’s front to rear foot dimension is 10 inches or less, I can use the shelf in its present form. Otherwise I have to build a platform for it to extend beyond the shelf, finish it to match the rest of the desk, then bolt it on to support the weight.

The shelf in question is directly above my little Guy’s head where the Sony DST controller and pictures are sitting.

Another option is where the bottom printer on the right is sitting- but that’s a pretty active area with the main printer above it, and I can envision the wife breaking a tube while doing printing/faxing work. I think the original spot keeps the tubes better out of harm’s way and allows for better ventilation.

And yes, that is my original back up Bose system under the monitor- just in case my Yggy, Rag, and LS50s go down!!!

Thanks. DSNORD

 

[DSNORD]

Here’s the main set up- so you can see, I have nowhere to go to the left.

 

[SeaWo|f]

Innerfidelity has some pretty good close up pictures of the amp.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/conte...adphone-amplifiers-headamp-blue-hawaii?page=1

It looks like the spike feet are pretty close to the front and back, so you would need the offset of the center of the spike to be about 1.75 from the edge of the chassis Even if it does make it, you are going to be very close to the edges. Just for my own piece of mind I would end up building the extension. Also the spike feet will mark the desk up IDK if you care about that or not but you can use something like this under those feet if you give yourself more room.

https://www.amazon.com/Sonic-Saucer...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=F50ZKTG9Q02GC66PJM0R

What color did you end up settling on?

 

[JimL11]

Would appreciate it a BHSE owner could measure the FOOT spacing dimensions of the amp and PS for me. I don’t need the units overall dimensions since I already have them.

The amp measures approx 10 3/16" x 9 7/8", the PS measures approx 5 7/8" z 9 7/8"

 

[JimL11]

so you personally feel great about the value equation of the BHSE. great. and I agree. but maybe not everyone would.

I'm just saying the same things you might say to someone questioning how you can be crazy enough to spend over $6k for a headphone amplifier. lots of people would write exactly the same thing you wrote, just change the names. it only depends on where you sit personally as to how you view it.

just like that person, you ignore even the idea that it might be worth it to someone and just dismiss it as some sort of sin against man. and you assume that the buyer has not done his or her homework and made the right buying decision for themselves because you don't understand it.

if you want to really make an intelligent point then investigate the whole picture of the MSB Select II and the Headphone amplifier and make a case that it's not worth it. but wait; that actually takes a little effort and we know it's easier just to shoot from the hip. which is why we need to ignore the price and look at what the darn product does. there will always be laws of diminishing returns. whether it's audio gear, or watches, or boats, or airplanes, or wine......the very best will cost you plenty. and you will pay ever increasing dollars for ever smaller increments of performance increase. the decision to actually pay that cost is personal based on that individuals priorities.

the highest end audio is not purchased by the very rich guys. it's the people who are really committed to the hobby and are all in to it. these are not casual purchases with money found in the sofa. it hurts to spend the money. and lots of thought behind these purchase.....just like a BHSE customer.

I think it's more the issue of the apparent parts cost for the amp versus the retail price. Traditionally, the ratio between parts and retail cost was around 5:1 - in other words if you had the plans, bought all the parts and built it yourself it would cost 1/5th the retail price. This includes the electronic parts, transformers, chassis, etc. And in fact some manufacturers have admitted that the price of the chassis was higher than the price of the electronics inside. More recently, some people have cited a parts to retail ratio of 10 to 1, due to higher prices for small volumes. This ratio is supposed to support some profit for the manufacturer, distributor, retail store, etc.

For the MSB, the parts cost SEEMS to be a such a small proportion of the price, that the question arises, is the price way out of proportion to the cost of manufacture, i.e. could they make a decent profit for, say, $6000, and the price is inflated to make it seem more wonderful than it is? After all, the BHSE, widely considered state of the art as a commercial design, costs a sixth the price of the MSB, including an $800-$900 volume control, and based on the visible evidence is a more complex design.

 

[bombay317]

Here’s the main set up- so you can see, I have nowhere to go to the left.

You should also take into consideration the cables coming out of the back. I couldn't find a lot about that, they are basically Tyco TE Connectivity circular plastic connectors with wire harness strain relief, but they add another couple of inches coming out of the back of the systems. You will want to allocate for strain relief and cable space coming out of the back.