[Aimless1]

Great thread! One of the more intelligent and even discussions about headphones I've read on head-fi.

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Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Rangen, congrats on an incredibly insightful and entertaining review. Really great stuff. I generally agree with you, based on my fairly limited experience with the HD800 (I have a pair in here for review, but they need more break-in time). I will post more thoughts as the HD800 break in and I get more experience with them. But one thing does need to be emphasized: the HD800 is NOT, IMHO, in a different league" from the DX1000. The DX1000 is a world-class headphone. It is sufficiently idiosyncratic that it will not be for everyone, but I have a feeling that in a year we'll be saying the same about the HD800. The HD800 is definitely not perfect. It does have a character, and from what I have heard from another very-well broken-in pair, it's character will also not be for everyone, although it is possible it will appeal to more people than the DX1000. The HD800 is a terrific headphone. But it isn't, IMHO, head and shoulders above other world-class of headphones, of which the DX1000 is one. Rangen has done a fantastic job of illustrating this.

Neither the DX1000 or the HD800 is for everyone. Time will show if the HD800 is truly one of the very best or simply incredibly good. I enjoyed my time with the DX1000 but as others have pointed out ... at times it sounds almost neutral and darn near perfect ... while with other music is can be bleh. We can agree it is an incredible headphone, but a world class can should be at least listenable with all music. I didn't find that the case with the DX1000.

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Originally Posted by Donald North /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's easy to say "I want neutrality or accuracy", but what is neutrality and accuracy? Are we trying to recreate the soundfield at the original event? If so, then to do this the recording needs to be done binaurally - perhaps an Ambisonic mic with appropriate processing could also work. If this recording is done the traditional way with multiple microphones, then we've already failed this goal. What about electronic music? There is no original acoustic event with it until it's played. If the goal is to reproduce the soundfield as heard from a pair of loudspeakers, are they free field or in a room (diffuse field)? Which room? Which loudspeaker? What is their left-right separation and distance from the listener? Another possible definition to accuracy: Accurately invoking the same emotional response and feeling as the composer/musician intended.

Good points all. Like most here I am looking for what sounds right to me. Nice explanation of some of the reasons we hear things differently ... and the difficulties of meaningful definitions in this hobby.

No doubt many will love the HD800. Just as Rob has found his holy grail in the DX1000, so too will others with the new Sennheiser.

 

[Skylab]

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Originally Posted by Aimless1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Neither the DX1000 or the HD800 is for everyone. Time will show if the HD800 is truly one of the very best or simply incredibly good. I enjoyed my time with the DX1000 but as others have pointed out ... at times it sounds almost neutral and darn near perfect ... while with other music is can be bleh. We can agree it is an incredible headphone, but a world class can should be at least listenable with all music. I didn't find that the case with the DX1000. Good points all. Like most here I am looking for what sounds right to me. Nice explanation of some of the reasons we hear things differently ... and the difficulties of meaningful definitions in this hobby. No doubt many will love the HD800. Just as Rob has found his holy grail in the DX1000, so too will others with the new Sennheiser.

I agree. Many will love the HD800. For me, the DX1000 does in fact sound right with all music. But it won't for everyone. And perhaps for less people than the HD800 will.

But neither is the HD800 perfect. I will have more to say on this later, but even the broken in pair I heard sounded a little hot on top. I will compare them in detail to the DT880, which I like a lot but also is a little hot on top, to try to gauge exactly what is going on. The HD800 is very neutral through the midrange - of this there seems no doubt, and not in the way that the K701 were neutral but very dry in the mids - the HD800 still have body in the mids. But they are also a little light in the bass (compared even to the HD600), which, combined with the very clean but slightly hot treble, may mean they will be too bright in systems that already lean that way.

How fun to be able to compare such excellent headphones!!!

 

[vcoheda]

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Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif But HD800s are also a little light in the bass (compared even to the HD600)

wow!

when i read such stark differences in listening experiences, i start to think that all impressions are rather pointless, unless the listener is using the same source and amp. and we wonder why there is so much disagreement.

 

[rangen]

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Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree. Many will love the HD800. For me, the DX1000 does in fact sound right with all music. But it won't for everyone. And perhaps for less people than the HD800 will. But neither is the HD800 perfect. I will have more to say on this later, but even the broken in pair I heard sounded a little hot on top.

Ah, I figured you'd turn up here sooner or later. Welcome. I'd definitely like to hear more about your characterization of the HD800 sound, when you work it out. I think of myself as quite treble-sensitive, but any perceived hotness in the HD800, to my ears, has vanished with break in...at least with the tubed Woo. Still, I have to admit that this is not a headphone I'd personally want to listen to with an SS amplifier. If it has flaws, those flaws echo those of SS vs. tubes, and I wouldn't want to encourage them.

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Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow! when i read such stark differences in listening experiences, i start to think that all impressions are rather pointless, unless the listener is using the same source and amp. and we wonder why their is so much disagreement.

Well, IPodPJ's report suggests that the HD800s are about as amp-sensitive as they come. But I have to echo the point about base-shyness, though I consider it fully remedied by the EQ regimen I use on some recordings. But, as someone mentioned here earlier, the issue mostly comes up when the bass in question is an acoustic instrument. Electric bass mostly seems just fine.

I think that, in order to align experiences, it would be useful to align on the same recordings. I've mentioned some, and you've done a great job of that in the other HD800 thread, but I think it's all classical and folk. Actually, I think it was you who inspired me to order a recording of Vivaldi's Four Seasons, and if it was -- thanks. It's awesome.

So it would be useful to know what recordings containing acoustic bass you think are well-represented on the HD800. I'd pull up Kind Of Blue, which two people have mentioned on this thread, but I seem to be cursed with an inability to appreciate jazz, so I don't have it.

I'm currently listening to Alice in Chains Unplugged, which was recommended in the music forum, on the HD800, and it's terrific, and I turned off the bass EQ because it's better that way. But, thanks to an Unplugged loophole, the bass is electric.

 

[SleepyOne]

"... the issue mostly comes up when the bass in question is an acoustic instrument. Electric bass mostly seems just fine."

That is a bit unexpected. I wonder does vcoheda has similar experience.

 

[vcoheda]

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Originally Posted by rangen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think that, in order to align experiences, it would be useful to align on the same recordings. I've mentioned some, and you've done a great job of that in the other HD800 thread, but I think it's all classical and folk. Actually, I think it was you who inspired me to order a recording of Vivaldi's Four Seasons, and if it was -- thanks. It's awesome.

the four seasons was me. i always try to list what music i listen to for that very reason - to give the reader a better idea of where i am coming from. the same reason, i list my gear in my sig. but it's frustrating. how can we have a coherent, rationale dialogue when everyone seems to hear everything so differently. i guess it's all for fun, so it doesn't matter anyway. but it is true that if you want to know how something sounds, you have to hear it for yourself.

 

[rangen]

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Originally Posted by SleepyOne /img/forum/go_quote.gif "... the issue mostly comes up when the bass in question is an acoustic instrument. Electric bass mostly seems just fine." That is a bit unexpected. I wonder does vcoheda has similar experience.

Yeah, and it's probably too strongly stated, on reflection. But I was pretty stunned to find, in listening for the original post, that one of my teenage bass touchstones, Kashmir, seemed just fine on an un-EQ'ed HD800 (I think that's an electric bass being played with a bow), while the acoustic bass in a Hot Rize song seemed to have gone missing from my awareness, until I put on the DX1000s. Then someone else posted something about acoustic bass and it seemed that there might be a valid point there. I'd be interested in anyone's experiences in this area.

 

[dallan]

Thanks for the review and comparison rangen. Very entertaining, just ran across it for the first time. I have both phones and i am glad i haven't had to choose. I've been trading them as i read through this whole thread in one sitting slowly. Really great observations/opinions from all.

Due to the newness i have been using my HD800s a lot more than my DX1000s in the last couple weeks since getting them. It is very dependent on the music and the need that i have brought out the DX1000s (which i dearly love). It's great to have an open and closed pair opposed to themselves for mood, music and situation. I have times i have to have a closed phone due to my surroundings.

I have to say though, my current setup favors the HD800s. If using the xcan instead of the Zana Duex that might switch the other way around. The xcan are really good with the DX1000s even though the Zana opens and speeds them, the xcan has such a warm sweet, smoothness that complements the DX1000s. The Zana is fast and even opens the soundstage more, has extraordinary detail/precision and favors the HD800s.

I am feeling more and more that the chain in our systems is fueling many of the opinions and reviews of the 800s. Both of these are world class and person/system dependent. If i had to pick one I think right now i go with the HD800s but ask me again in 6-8 months and I may give you another answer-probably a straight up tie.

 

[Skylab]

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Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif the four seasons was me. i always try to list what music i listen to for that very reason - to give the reader a better idea of where i am coming from. the same reason, i list my gear in my sig. but it's frustrating. how can we have a coherent, rationale dialogue when everyone seems to hear everything so differently. i guess it's all for fun, so it doesn't matter anyway. but it is true that if you want to know how something sounds, you have to hear it for yourself.

There is, of course, no doubt that one must listen for themselves in order to get the full measure of any audio item, as we all do hear differently.

But there are commonalities, and there are reference points. And it is crucial for there to be multiple voices of opinion, with multiple points of reference, in order to assist the largest number of interested parties and readers.

FWIW, my comments are based on listening to Patricia Barber's "The Cole Porter Mix" via my SinglePower Extreme. But again, this was just some ititial impressions - the pair I am reviewing has a fair number of hours, but not completely broken in (I did listen briefly to a 400-ish hour pair as well). I plan to do a complete and thorough review but this will not be for more than a week so I can get another couple hundred hours on this pair.

 

[SleepyOne]

Looking forward to your review Skylab!

 

[greggf]

Also looking forward to it, Skylab.

 

[Soundinista]

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Originally Posted by Donald North /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's easy to say "I want neutrality or accuracy", but what is neutrality and accuracy? Are we trying to recreate the soundfield at the original event? If so, then to do this the recording needs to be done binaurally - perhaps an Ambisonic mic with appropriate processing could also work. If this recording is done the traditional way with multiple microphones, then we've already failed this goal. What about electronic music? There is no original acoustic event with it until it's played. If the goal is to reproduce the soundfield as heard from a pair of loudspeakers, are they free field or in a room (diffuse field)? Which room? Which loudspeaker? What is their left-right separation and distance from the listener? Another possible definition to accuracy: Accurately invoking the same emotional response and feeling as the composer/musician intended.

Spot-on! Very nicely put!

And yet, as long as there is convergence in the description of sonic traits, which we often do achieve, the discussion about our gear won't have become pointless. But our preferences do diverge wildly, and we can certainly live with that.

I'll take the opportunity to add that, like Skylab, I'm yet to find something that sounds positively wrong through the DX1000. But I have no doubt that I can prefer other phones for some material. (I'd just have to a-b them long enough, I'm sure.) IME, the DX1000 is just the one that gets most things right, just the one I'd keep if I could have only one. (But I'd miss the D7000 badly!) And here's the main reason (again): It's the one that's given me the most convincing out-of-head experience -- the 3D, palpability, "thereness" thing.

 

[Skylab]

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Originally Posted by SleepyOne /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looking forward to your review Skylab!

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Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also looking forward to it, Skylab.

Thanks guys - I am thrilled to have the opportunity to do so. I just wish I could write as creatively as Rangen!!!!

 

[callmevil]

Thank you for that very good read! even all of the replies on this thread is epic..

 

[leeperry]

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Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif the HD800 is NOT, IMHO, in a different league" from the DX1000. The DX1000 is a world-class headphone.

I'm confused

you told me that the DT770/600Ω sounded just as good as the DX1k to you....so