[mypasswordis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmanGeorge /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe someone can buy a second pair to do an easy A/B

I nominate this as best post of the thread.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Admit it: You weren't paying attention to sonic differences because you didn't expect them and they weren't the goal of the procedure. Moreover you don't hear differences among cables anyway.

Admit it? I would have thought that was abundantly clear from my post.

Regardless, your point is specious, at best, for the very reason stated in beefy's post.

Would I have heard differences if I were specifically seeking them? Perhaps. See? I'm willing to admit that. But here's the difference, I am aware that there are myriad possible reasons/explanations for such perceived differences of which the "science" (in quotes because, c'mon, it's been a pretty unimpressive display) mentioned in this thread is but one; placebo and psychoacoustics are just as likely, as are tin ears, and the list goes on.

The consistent vehemence (and, frankly, arrogance: "I believe it; therefore, it is so!") with which cable believers deny that their n of 1 findings could also be attributable to placebo effect, among other possibilities, confuses me. The only accomplishment of such denials is the damage to the believer's credibility.

To all you believers out there, your credibility is not increased by the death grip with which you hold on to your beliefs as "proof." Rather, it is only your willingness to accept and confront the reasons that you might be wrong that will really strengthen your arguments.

JaZZ and others, I don't question whether you perceived a difference in sound. Rather, I question your conslusions about the reason for that perceived difference. That debate rages on, and will continue to do so. And certainly nothing in this thread has moved the discourse forward.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh no, you've discovered my plan! You're actually right; I signed up a year and a half ago under a stupid alias, with a new persona, made 1200 posts...... all just to back myself up in one silly little argument about mods on a set of phones that I didn't even know existed at that time. Whatever will I, The Monkey, do now?

I am beefy, hear me roar!

EDIT: I also like the incredulousness that more than one person could disagree with the cable-shortening premise.

 

[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif The consistent vehemence (and, frankly, arrogance: "I believe it; therefore, it is so!") with which cable believers deny that their n of 1 findings could also be attributable to placebo effect, among other possibilities, confuses me. The only accomplishment of such denials is the damage to the believer's credibility. To all you believers out there, your credibility is not increased by the death grip with which you hold on to your beliefs as "proof." Rather, it is only your willingness to accept and confront the reasons that you might be wrong that will really strengthen your arguments.

Exactly. Proper proof is good for everyone. Otherwise we're all just lying to ourselves and everyone else.

But the skeptics don't care enough to take the time to do it; arguing is much more fun, and I would rather build something or listen to the music uninterrupted. And the believers care too much that their claims might not hold up to proper scrutiny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am beefy, hear me roar!

I am Monkey, hear me moo!

 

[haloxt]

You guys should look up the definition of psychoacoustics, if you want to lecture on science at least get the terms right.

 

[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif You guys should look up the definition of psychoacoustics, if you want to lecture on science at least get the terms right.

The psychological state of our mind affects how we perceive sound. This is a core principal of modern psychoacoustics.

Placebo is a much more generic term, and not as suitable here.

 

[haloxt]

What do you mean it's not suitable? There's nothing more you can add by substituting it or using it in conjunction with the term psychoacoustics. To boot I really don't like your use of the term confirmation bias, when obviously the term you really mean is again placebo. I'm not usually a word nazi but what you're doing on this thread is really irritating.

 

[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif To boot I really don't like your use of the term confirmation bias, when obviously the term you really mean is again placebo. I'm not usually a word nazi but what you're doing on this thread is really irritating.

The only reason you are being a word nazi here is because you've got nothing else to argue me with. Placebo is a broad, generic term for a wide range of things that operate through different mechanisms.

They want to hear a difference, they do, psychoacoustics is the specific field that covers the mechanisms.
They don't do tests that would disprove their point, confirmation bias is what they employ when they set up their 'tests'.

 

[JaZZ]

I know that Beefy and Monkey are two heads of the Hydra, and there are many more. But I'm not interested in endless repetition of personal attitude and ideology and thought the Monkey can speak for himself.

Well, this thread is about tweaks for the HD 800, and there are some with corresponding experience and some with nothing to contribute but ideology. So a kind appeal to the latter to keep out of this thread and focus on more suitable playgrounds. Let's make a point!

And sorry to IPodPJ for my own (unintended) contribution to the pollution of this thread!
.

 

[haloxt]

You have used the term psychoacoustics as if it contains something which placebo does not, placebo is an umbrella concept that encompasses every mental phenomena associated with wrongly attributing something that is caused by faulty perception to an actual physical cause, be it pills or cables. And the occurrence of confirmation bias is in setting up tests or interpreting data, and by gum, if you're testing cables that (let's presume) don't make an audible difference, any sort of data collected can only differ in the mind, not in the actual data, which automatically makes any possible application of the term confirmation bias subumed in the term placebo. Your use of the terms psychoacoustics and confirmation bias are extremely misleading (I'd say totally wrong).

 

[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif placebo is an umbrella concept

EXACTLY. Placebo is the generic, over-reaching umbrella concept. Glad we got that sorted out. So lets get above this superficial that you seem so happy with, and see what causes the placebo in this case.

*GASP* could it be psychoacoustics?
*GASP* could it be confirmation bias in the testing protocol?

 

[haloxt]

Placebo will suffice.

 

[IPodPJ]

Can you guys please end the discussion on cable mods and placebo? This thread is about mods specifically related to the HD800 headphone unit. Thank you.

 

[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Placebo will suffice.

Sure, if you're happy being superficial, and passing up the opportunity to actually understand the mechanisms behind something.

 

[boomana]

I'm going to ask that this thread be kept on the op's topic from this point on. Those who want to argue the perceived or real benefits of shorter cables may do so in another thread.