[Bilavideo]

When I look at the beyer cables, what comes to mind is gracious abundance bordering on overkill.  If the PS1000 has what some call the "garden hose" (hey, enjoy my phallic phones), the T1 has the "power cable."  It's big enough to plug something into the wall.  It apparently separates each channel into its own left and right cables, which are run parallel to one another but from different walls of a bifurcated line.  It's got to be the closest thing to balanced cables without having to modify the 1/4" connector.
 
There's nothing wrong with the T1's cable.

 

[zeroeight]

Quote:

A quote from someone who did my T1 re-cabling:
 
 
 

Those time delays was exactly what I felt like I heard from the HD800s.  The sundstage felt almost artificial.  But the pair I was using had aftermarket cables.  Not sure what they were but they were flat.  Perhaps they too had some silver in the signal path.

 

[Shahrose]

There is no time-delay or any such trickery going on...listen to them out of a proper source and amp and even with the stock cable, they'll sound natural and involving. I've personally found meaningful gains from both the upgraded cables that I owned with the HD800 (and less so, with the 2 for the HD650). Before anyone says the stock can't be improved upon, I think it would be sensible to atleast spend some time with the aftermarket offerings...otherwise your opinion is completely baseless.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

There is no time-delay or any such trickery going on...listen to them out of a proper source and amp and even with the stock cable, they'll sound natural and involving. I've personally found meaningful gains from both the upgraded cables that I owned with the HD800 (and less so, with the 2 for the HD650). Before anyone says the stock can't be improved upon, I think it would be sensible to atleast spend some time with the aftermarket offerings...otherwise your opinion is completely baseless.

Hi Shah
 
Are you still getting the GS-1?
 
USG
 

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Hi Shah
 
Are you still getting the GS-1?
 
USG
 

Ofcourse

. It'll be here by early next week most likely.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Ofcourse

. It'll be here by early next week most likely.

Wow, that's record time.  How did you swing that?

 

[godog]

Then why there are so many upgrading cables for HD800/HD650 out there?? the engineers of senn/the ones who buy the expensive cable are dumps? Changing cable definitely makes a difference in sound, but whether the stock cable is a bottleneck is another issue.

 

[godog]

Quote:

 

You're skeptical about the quality of a 6-core cable?  Really?

6-core cable doesn't necessarily mean high quality conductor inside. And I am skeptical about whether this cable can fully unleash the potential of T1 drivers
 

 

[Pacha]

Quote:

That's true. I was only commenting on my experiences with the SAA Equinox cables. I would like more empirical evidence/experience with more setups...though I don't hold out much hope....but who knows.

 
Listen, I never ever believed in the cable stuff before recently, and was also thinking that spending more money (not speaking of thousands of $) on cables is just sprucing up the setup and or pure voodoo belief which let the cable manufacturers have a very good laugh making easy money from credulous folks.
 
I purchased my Audio-gd FUN with the stock cables, and borrowed a "quite good" RCA cable, to compare with the plain crap stock one, along with an Audio-gd power cable to compare to the "noname quality" stock one also. I swapped cables without expecting anything, just making my opinion by myself to know whether the cables believers were cultists or true. I heard changes when changing both digital cable and power cable while I wasn't expecting any. Not that I wanted my $75 power cable to make my gear shine to justify the money I paid, I didn't even expected that, and even more about the RCA cable that I haven't even paid.
A few weeks ago I went to slim.a's place and tried several digital cables without him telling me before what he thinks of each one. I heard changes, and again I came with no belief and wanted to see by myself if he was speading BS about the cables and suffered from placebo effect which will justify the money he spent in all those cables, or not.
I went to his place yesterday to give a comparison to my stock T1 to his ALO recabled T1, after having heard several guys who had the occasion to compare directly in face to face stock T1 to recabled, saying they found differences, I wanted to make my opinion again.
You can read my thoughts here :
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/440799/beyerdynamic-to-launch-new-top-headphone-at-ifa-called-t1/3450#post_6728881
 
Maybe guys you'll call me member of the cable sect after reading, I can easily understand as I maybe would have said so myself in the past, but please do make yourself your opinion by comparing directly several times digital cables, power and headphone cables before saying this is all BS. I'm not proclaming myself as the truth holder here nor want you to tell me that I'm right, just give you my opinion and tell you that you should give more attemps if you have the occasion to make comparisons before saying this is pure BS. In this idea, you would possibly compare several cables in the same time going from the plain crap from the supermarket to any good quality one you own, there may be easily audible changes.
 
Plus I can't imagine why people can spend thousands of $ in their system believing this little cap or res, opamp, tube, CDP bay, etc will affect the sound and deserve upgrades to sound different (I didn't say necessarily better), while you think that using any cable will do the same as it only transports the signal, period.
In this same way of thinking, there are many things that you would think about upgrading that only "transport" that data and wouldn't need upgrade. A bit easy thinking don't you think?
Maybe a dumb thought but, why then not using an ipod earplugs cable on your T1 if it only transport the signal? You'd maybe be shocked and would think "I'll never use such a small crap with these cans, this is pure nonsense!", and think a bigger, better insulated cable would do the trick. Then why another cable over the stock one wouldn't?

 

[slim.a]

2 years ago, I was also very skeptical about cables, and I would have laughed at anybody mentioning an aftermarket power cord. However, after experimenting a lot, I changed my mind.

Yesterday, Pacha and I spent the afternoon comparing my ALO recabled T1 with his stock T1. With good quality recordings, the difference between the stock one and the recabled one was staggering. The ALO recabled version had an uncanny sense of transparency and communicated the feeling of being there while the stock one was fuzzier. When you listen to the stock one on its own it sounds good, but when hear the music through the recabled one, it is hard to go back.
 
However, I have to point out that the recabling is relevant only if the rest of the chain is resolving and transparent enough. To hear the difference such clearly, one has to have a low jitter source and use transparent interconnects and equipment. When I switch from my reference interconnects (Custom made ACSS/CAST) to a entry level PVC coated interconnects, I get the same sense of fuzziness and artificial highs I heard when listening through the stock T1.
A good cable only allows the signal to go through with the least harm possible. If the signal is already colored (cheap interconnects, bad power filtration, "colored" components...), there is no point in going for the recabled version in my personal opinion.
 
All of the above reflects my personal opinion based on subjective listening. But for those who are going to jump and say the cables cannot make a difference, here is a thought (pretty much the same as Pacha's):
If you are using a DAC or a headphone amp that costs more $200, there is a serious flaw in your reasoning skills. So far, double blind tests show that people cannot distinguish a $200 receiver from $12,000 amp. I am pretty sure there are other tests out there that will tell you that there are no differences between CD players or DACs past a certain point.
In that case why would it be "sane" to buy a $2000 headphone amp but at the same time, it would be insane to spend more than $20 on a cable? In fact, why would we even need a forum such as head-fi?
 
Since the enjoyment we get from this hobby is related to subjective listening and not graphs or double blind tests, I encourage people to actually listen to a recabled T1 or HD800 in a resolving system before they start saying that this can or can't be. The argument that says if there was such a difference, the engineers at Sennheiser or Beyer would have found it is a poor one in my opinion. If they weren't looking for it, or if they were constrained by budget, their choices and findings would have been limited. It took engineers many years to figure out and understand the effects of jitter on digital audio. It is because people complained about some unexplained differences at the time that people started looking for an answer.
Since we are not in the job of proving or disproving anything, I encourage people to listen to the recabled versions of the T1 and HD800 before making their final judgement. If we don't have an answer/proof, who cares as long as it helps getting a better sound.

 

[musicman59]

 
Quote:

2 years ago, I was also very skeptical about cables, and I would have laughed at anybody mentioning an aftermarket power cord. However, after experimenting a lot, I changed my mind.

Yesterday, Pacha and I spent the afternoon comparing my ALO recabled T1 with his stock T1. With good quality recordings, the difference between the stock one and the recabled one was staggering. The ALO recabled version had an uncanny sense of transparency and communicated the feeling of being there while the stock one was fuzzier. When you listen to the stock one on its own it sounds good, but when hear the music through the recabled one, it is hard to go back.
 
However, I have to point out that the recabling is relevant only if the rest of the chain is resolving and transparent enough. To hear the difference such clearly, one has to have a low jitter source and use transparent interconnects and equipment. When I switch from my reference interconnects (Custom made ACSS/CAST) to a entry level PVC coated interconnects, I get the same sense of fuzziness and artificial highs I heard when listening through the stock T1.
A good cable only allows the signal to go through with the least harm possible. If the signal is already colored (cheap interconnects, bad power filtration, "colored" components...), there is no point in going for the recabled version in my personal opinion.
 
All of the above reflects my personal opinion based on subjective listening. But for those who are going to jump and say the cables cannot make a difference, here is a thought (pretty much the same as Pacha's):
If you are using a DAC or a headphone amp that costs more $200, there is a serious flaw in your reasoning skills. So far, double blind tests show that people cannot distinguish a $200 receiver from $12,000 amp. I am pretty sure there are other tests out there that will tell you that there are no differences between CD players or DACs past a certain point.
In that case why would it be "sane" to buy a $2000 headphone amp but at the same time, it would be insane to spend more than $20 on a cable? In fact, why would we even need a forum such as head-fi?
 
Since the enjoyment we get from this hobby is related to subjective listening and not graphs or double blind tests, I encourage people to actually listen to a recabled T1 or HD800 in a resolving system before they start saying that this can or can't be. The argument that says if there was such a difference, the engineers at Sennheiser or Beyer would have found it is a poor one in my opinion. If they weren't looking for it, or if they were constrained by budget, their choices and findings would have been limited. It took engineers many years to figure out and understand the effects of jitter on digital audio. It is because people complained about some unexplained differences at the time that people started looking for an answer.
Since we are not in the job of proving or disproving anything, I encourage people to listen to the recabled versions of the T1 and HD800 before making their final judgement. If we don't have an answer/proof, who cares as long as it helps getting a better sound.

Finally somebody that supports with actual listening what I have been saying since I compared my stock T1 against a Balck Dragon T1 and later my experience with my Zeus recabled T1.
 
What you are describing is exactly my same preception of the changes. I also agree that to take full adavantage of the recable job your system needs to be top notch. A system is as good as the weakest link in the sound chain.
 
Thank you for confirming what I h=been saying for some time...

 

 

[oqvist]

So the difference with a 500$ cable compared to a stock 100$ cable is as big as from a 200$ amp to 700$?
 
For me it´s quite big difference between my receiver and various headphone amps. I would expect just as big difference with the ALO cable compared to the stock T1 cable?

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

So the difference with a 500$ cable compared to a stock 100$ cable is as big as from a 200$ amp to 700$?
 
For me it´s quite big difference between my receiver and various headphone amps. I would expect just as big difference with the ALO cable compared to the stock T1 cable?

Uh oh, sorry, law of diminishing returns. 

 
USG

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

 
Finally somebody that supports with actual listening what I have been saying since I compared my stock T1 against a Balck Dragon T1 and later my experience with my Zeus recabled T1.
 
What you are describing is exactly my same preception of the changes. I also agree that to take full adavantage of the recable job your system needs to be top notch. A system is as good as the weakest link in the sound chain.
 
Thank you for confirming what I h=been saying for some time...

 

Comparing the 2 headphones side by side (as you did yourself) was very instructive. Most "faults" of the stock T1 (weird imaging, lack of purity of tone...) are due to the stock cable.
 
I hope that with time, we'll have more comparisons between different upgrade cables. But from reading your description of the Zeus, it seems that ALO and Zeus are more similar to each other than they are to the stock cable ... which is a good thing

 
Quote:

So the difference with a 500$ cable compared to a stock 100$ cable is as big as from a 200$ amp to 700$?
 
For me it´s quite big difference between my receiver and various headphone amps. I would expect just as big difference with the ALO cable compared to the stock T1 cable?

I bet that the stock cable they use doesn't cost them more than $20. I don't remember the reference, but it wasn't the top of the line sommer cable when we looked at the reference.
 
Rating the difference is always subjective in nature. All $200 amps do not behave similarily and all $700 do not neither. Price is not always a good indicator of performance IMO. However, to give you an indication on how I value the upgraded ALO T1, I will give you an example. If I were to choose (regardless of the price) between:
a/ Beyer T1 (stock) + HD800 (stock) + Grado GS1000i (stock)
b/ ALO recabled T1
I personally would choose the recabled T1 over choice a)
 
The recabled T1 is a step above all the other stock headphones (I haven't listened to a HD800 with an aftermarket cord so I cannot give my opinion on the subject).
Yes, the cost of the upgraded cable is high but it was worth it in my personal case.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

So the difference with a 500$ cable compared to a stock 100$ cable is as big as from a 200$ amp to 700$?
 
For me it´s quite big difference between my receiver and various headphone amps. I would expect just as big difference with the ALO cable compared to the stock T1 cable?

 
Definitely not...temper your expectations here. Cables are the last thing that should be upgraded IME. Blue Jeans will more than suffice until you get to a certain point with transports/DACs/amps and transducers.