[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, yes, and yes again, Alberto, you are correct here, BUT my point was that the gold-plated closed-back PROline 650 has an exact counterpart in the HFI-2200 ULE which should really be called the PROline 2200 if Ultrasone were truly consistent about their product names. Of course, the titanium-plated PROline 2500 and 750 remain at the top of the PROline range, but the PROline 650 and 2200 are equally well-constructed and by no means off the pace with a warmer presentation due to their respective drivers. Different flavors for different tastes.

I tested briefly the 2200 or the 650 not sure now, in the NYC meeting and honestly I do not recall how they actually sound, that woill be material for next studies, there was a lot of stuff there, and a lot of things that I was interested: L3000, Edition 7, R-10 again, Omegas, Orpheus, Etys, and some more IEM that I was really curious about, so I paid more attention ot those, but honestly I iwll promise that I iwll do my homework and will try them again soon....as soon as I can...

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry Dex, but I'm not familiar with the Ultrasone complete line of heapdhones, just the PROLines and Editions...but IIRC it uses gold plated diaphragms in the drivers instead of titanium, that may give it a different flavor which not being familiar with, I would refrain from commment on, the titanium vaporized drivers are consider the best drivers by Ultrasone themselves, of course that may carry some discussion given certain preferences, but accosding ot them, right now their top heapdhones are he PROLInes...below the Editions...

The 650 and 2200 use gold, the 750 and 2500 use titanium, so yes, that's what gives them their respective flavours.

Personally I've never liked the sound of titanium coated mylar, which is why I went for the 2200s in particular. Now if only the customs staff would get back from their holiday....

 

[jpelg]

I fail to understand how impressions, however detailed, of the closed Proline 750 (and a Moon Audio recabled version at that) is but remotely related to someone wanting to better understand what the open HFI-2200 ULE would sound like?

Btw Dex, do a search on exactly who used the word "muddy" wrt Ultrasones. I used it exactly twice in two separate, tiny posts. That word has been repeated by the U.S. Ultrasone rep himself (Evan?) who stated that there is that aspect to their sound at least sometimes. Kees, in his detailed review, stated there are times when their bass is "sloppy". Other instances of the word "muddy" have been posted more times by you, Ralph, & Sovkiller than anyone else.

I heard what I heard, and I posted as such. You "U-heads" seem to be overly obsessed with discrediting my little post. I wonder why?

Btw, I heard the HFI-2200ULE's at the International Head-Fi meet and posted that they were "pleasant" sounding. Nothing too offensive, but not outstanding either. But even that tiny impression was also discredited by Sovkiller who stated that the Grace 902, a standard in the professional industry and holding accollades from many reviewers, that Ultrasone was using at their booth is not up to snuff. What amp could Ultrasone have had in mind when the good doctor was designing these headphones?

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

BTW, I heard the HFI-2200ULE's at the International Head-Fi meet and posted that they were "pleasant" sounding. Nothing too offensive, but not outstanding either. But even that tiny impression was also discredited by Sovkiller who stated that the Grace 902, a standard in the professional industry and holding accollades from many reviewers, that Ultrasone was using at their booth is not up to snuff. What amp could Ultrasone have had in mind when the good doctor was designing these headphones?

Standard in the PRO industry??? Who set that standard??? Go and take a look and what they actually use, we all wish that they use the Grace, but unfortunatelly those horrible jacks from consoles and those distribution amps are used...that is why we all see these horrible results...

The Grace is not a bad heapdhone amp, just that I do not consider it warm, and I called it bright, maybe a little offensive, but that is my personal opinion, nothing wrong on a personla opinion I think, if you want to consider the opposite, good, that is another opinion, keep in mind also that many here have it, and use it, ones becasue of the DAC, other becasue....well, they like it, but you can do a lot better for your money, but a lot!!! And the Grace is not what we can call "a bargain" neither...

Also the 7506 is indeed one standard, along with others, and how many of us actually use it and consider it a top notch headphone?

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Gentlemen,

Could we please bring this discussion back to more reasonable and civil tones. The OP was simply asking for a comparison of the 2200s versus the HD650 and somehow you've managed to get the Grace 901 into the mix

.

My experience with the Ultrasone headphones, no matter what the model, is that due to their "extended" bass response they can be somewhat off putting for many listeners. How one labels that bass response, be it "extended, "muddy", "speaker like", "realistic", etc. is really not the point. The point is that the Ultrasone's bass response is quite different from that of most other brands of headphones and this seems to be a major bone of contention with many people.

All headphones have their own ways presenting the music, hopefully one can find the headphone whose presentation best suits one's idea of how music should sound. The OP is trying to do this and we are supposed to be assisting him, not fighting amongst ourselves.

 

[Snacks]

^^^I think we can all move on, OP stated in another thread that he has ordered the HD 650's; end of discussion, no?

 

[jpelg]

Ralph, with all due respect, you are the one who has derailed this thread with references to a headphone model that is barely related to the one asked by the OP. I brought it back on track with my reference to the HFI-2200ULE, and again Sovkiller deflected my response by focusing on the Grace amp. It was also Dex who dissed my impressions as if they have absolutely no merit. Yet other posters (and reviewers) with little to no experience are allowed to post glowing reviews. Where is the consistency?

Now wrt how we describe our listening experiences, that is exactly the whole point of this board! We hear, and we attempt to write about it, based on some prior knowledge and experiences. Otherwise, why be here at all?

Now if by talking about it and around it repeatedly, we seem to be hearing the same kind of FR, yet you equate it with your best speaker listening experiences, and I call it muddy or distorted, then so be it. Other readers can read the various threads & posts and come to their own conclusions. I have never slammed a person's opinion or post, only rebutted with my own experiences. Perhaps others should do the same.

 

[Dexdexter]

Happy New Year, James, you sly devil, you, using your moderator privileges to continually refine your posts so that they appear not to have been edited!

But I'll play along, even at such a gross disadvantage!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Btw Dex, do a search on exactly who used the word "muddy" wrt Ultrasones. I used it exactly twice in two separate, tiny posts. That word has been repeated by the U.S. Ultrasone rep himself (Evan?) who stated that there is that aspect to their sound at least sometimes. Kees, in his detailed review, stated there are times when their bass is "sloppy". Other instances of the word "muddy" have been posted more times by you, Ralph, & Sovkiller than anyone else.

No argument from me here, for I believe that it speaks more to the weight you carry around this place. Those other references were all in response to your tiny little posts which were delivered with such emphatic authority for a such a relatively brief encounter under meet conditions. I believe that Evan and Kees were being somewhat conciliatory when they said those things in direct response to you on other threads. Moreover, they were beginning to speak about degrees of m*ddiness, as in "well, I guess I can understand how someone could describe this as being slightly m*ddy...", etc., etc.

My interpretion of m*ddy would tend toward complete and utter sludge, vastly unlistenable, toss them cans in the bin, etc. But my Ultrasone experience could not be more different. So, yes, the "m-word" has taken on some resonance in discussions with regard to Ultrasone here.

So when will you accept my little challenge, James, now that the holidays are behind us?

Best, Dex

 

[jpelg]

Dex, I believe you overestimate my clout here on this board

. Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif My interpretion of m*ddy would tend toward complete and utter sludge, vastly unlistenable, toss them cans in the bin, etc.

But that is exactly what I heard on the day, and that is only what I posted about. Why would I pull that word out of thin air? And then have similiar (if not consistent) impressions be posted by others, including Kees in a detailed, standalone review of his own. Quote:

But my Ultrasone experience could not be more different.

I don't doubt that. I can't imagine anyone loving a product as such that I heard that day. I still do not hold anything against Ultrasone products, and look forward to hearing them in a more positive light in the future. In the meantime, my previous posts must stand as such.

p.s. And a Happy New Year to you as well.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

I don't doubt that. I can't imagine anyone loving a product as such that I heard that day. I still do not hold anything against Ultrasone products, and look forward to hearing them in a more positive light in the future. In the meantime, my previous posts must stand as such.

In one of the reviews i readed that they were very bass light (!!!) compared to other cans he has tested. And in that article Ultrasones representative answered that they had different experiences from different people, from too bassyness to bass light, and theorised that it had something to do with their unique driver placing and angling. Because of differently shapes of ears, the driver is angled wrong and therefore screwing the sound for that person. Check Ultrasones website, there is a collection of reviews of their products from different hifi magazines.

Dunno if its true, but after reading different experiences of Ultrasone headphones with different people (You Jpelg VS. Other guys mainly.

) it does make sense.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ralph, with all due respect, you are the one who has derailed this thread with references to a headphone model that is barely related to the one asked by the OP. I brought it back on track with my reference to the HFI-2200ULE, and again Sovkiller deflected my response by focusing on the Grace amp. It was also Dex who dissed my impressions as if they have absolutely no merit. Yet other posters (and reviewers) with little to no experience are allowed to post glowing reviews. Where is the consistency? Now wrt how we describe our listening experiences, that is exactly the whole point of this board! We hear, and we attempt to write about it, based on some prior knowledge and experiences. Otherwise, why be here at all? Now if by talking about it and around it repeatedly, we seem to be hearing the same kind of FR, yet you equate it with your best speaker listening experiences, and I call it muddy or distorted, then so be it. Other readers can read the various threads & posts and come to their own conclusions. I have never slammed a person's opinion or post, only rebutted with my own experiences. Perhaps others should do the same.

James,

I really don't want to be drawn into one of the p*ssing contesting that you seem to love so much but having reviewed the entire thread from the beginning I realize that it's not until your first post at #33 that the tone starts to go sour.

I rest my case.

 

[Elephas]

I heard a demo pair of HFI-2200ULE at a local audio shop some time ago, as well as a few other models (iCans, HFI-15, DJ1, HFI-650). I wasn't impressed by any of them, though I did buy the Ultrasone Demo CD, which comes free with an Ultrasone headphone.

I agree with the "muddy" description. Compared to other headphones such as the HD650, K701 and DT880-'03, the HFI-2200ULE was not as clear. It was as if a curtain or piece of cloth was between the drivers and ears. It seemed muddy as in not having well-defined attack and decay of notes. Each individual note was blurry and not distinctive.

I didn't listen very long, due to what I considered as unsatisfactory sound. I was surprised by the apparent muddiness of the sound and wondered why it was so. Apparently, people using Ultrasone headphones don't agree with me and like them very much. Maybe this is an effect of the S-Logic and a listener needs more time to get used to it.

 

[Dexdexter]

Gee, thanks, Elephas, we'll never hear the end of it from James now...

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gee, thanks, Elephas, we'll never hear the end of it from James now...

Oh, I think I put a stop to him (at least on this thread).

Edit: Dexter, I see what you mean about how the moderators can edit a post (be it someone else's or their own with it being detected) jpelg's post just below this one was edited and yet there is no indication of it being edited. Nice handy feature and a good way to win friends and influence people.

 

[jpelg]

Whatever, Ralph.

Back OT: actually, I did not experience any muddiness or reverb when I heard the HFI-2200ULE's. As I recall, they sounded quite "even" across the frequency spectrum. At bit "warm" and pleasant. Nothing offensive, and nothing outstanding.

At least I've actually heard them.