[dbfx]

hm.. so in reguards to the bass... the 2200s have more than the HD650s? Does this mean the bass is better or its just louder?

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbfx /img/forum/go_quote.gif hm.. so in reguards to the bass... the 2200s have more than the HD650s? Does this mean the bass is better or its just louder?

The bass is somewhat louder and in addition it has more depth and added weight. Think of it this: with the Sennheisers there is a double bass with a nice compact body playing in an acoustically dead environment but with the Ultrasones it's a double bass with a big fat body playing in a nice reverberant space. In either case all the notes are there but on has more weight and body to the notes.

Which presentation one likes better is strictly a matter of personal taste. As I've stated many people, as in quite a large number, find the Ultrasones to have a "muddy" sound and that's okay by me, that's why there are other brands of headphones to choose from. The Sennheisers and to a similar degree the AKGs are excellent headphones that present a slightly different but entirely valid way of hearing music. To each his own.

I'm not trying to be elusive it's just that using words like "better" when one is speaking about top quality headphones is really not going to make one very many friends around these parts and is really not being very truthful. They are all very good but they are all somewhat different. I prefer the sound of the Ultrasones, if for no other reason than they enable me to better hear Scott LaFaro work his magic on the fret board.

 

[dbfx]

AAAAAAH. Alright, thanks alot for all the help. I think I just need to hear the HD650s to be able to make my decision

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbfx /img/forum/go_quote.gif AAAAAAH. Alright, thanks alot for all the help. I think I just need to hear the HD650s to be able to make my decision

Sound like a good and very smart idea. Good luck in your quest!

 

[takezo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I hope I answered your question

yes! thank you for such a descriptive effort and insight! great taste in music too!

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by takezo /img/forum/go_quote.gif yes! thank you for such a descriptive effort and insight! great taste in music too!

You're most welcome, glad I could help. Sorry I left out Fred Hopkins, Sirrone, Malachi Favors, Mingus, Ray Brown, Paul Chambers, Charlie Haden and about twenty or thirty other outstanding bass players but I do think I got my point across with the five did I mention. (I just love name dropping.)

 

[Kees]

@ ralphp@optonline:
I agree with the best part of your description (and we share a lot of musical interests I think).
I did some impressions on the PROline 750 here.
About the bass I said:
Bass: Electric bass sounds absolutely awesome.
The upright bass is a bit different story. Some parts (the upper regions) sound wonderful, but the low notes can drown all else if there is an “else”. Solo they sound absolutely amazing.
In a trio or quartet: drums, bass, piano and saxophone or trumpet the other instruments have more than enough impact to survive this.
The result can be absolutely great, like on Summerwind.
If the bass is supposed to accompany only, it can end up wrong.
It is something I could easily live with though. Pros weigh heavier than the cons here for me.
Music listened to:
Stanley Clarke: If this bass could only talk.
Marcus Miller
Jaco Pastorius
Ray Brown: Summerwind
Charles Mingus: Ah Um.

Remember this is about the 750. But I think it could be similar for ULE 2200. Only if the 2200 is open, the reverb problem I mentioned might not be there.

Hope this helps a bit and does not confuse you more.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees /img/forum/go_quote.gif @ ralphp@optonline: I agree with the best part of your description (and we share a lot of musical interests I think). I did some impressions on the PROline 750 here. About the bass I said: Bass: Electric bass sounds absolutely awesome. The upright bass is a bit different story. Some parts (the upper regions) sound wonderful, but the low notes can drown all else if there is an “else”. Solo they sound absolutely amazing. In a trio or quartet: drums, bass, piano and saxophone or trumpet the other instruments have more than enough impact to survive this. The result can be absolutely great, like on Summerwind. If the bass is supposed to accompany only, it can end up wrong. It is something I could easily live with though. Pros weigh heavier than the cons here for me. Music listened to: Stanley Clarke: If this bass could only talk. Marcus Miller Jaco Pastorius Ray Brown: Summerwind Charles Mingus: Ah Um. Remember this is about the 750. But I think it could be similar for ULE 2200. Only if the 2200 is open, the reverb problem I mentioned might not be there. Hope this helps a bit and does not confuse you more.

I should also add that I was listening to my recently recabled Proline 750s and I feel the replacement of the stock cable with the Moon Audio Silver Dragon cable has really helped to alleviate many of those problem areas in bass reproduction that you are referring to. In other words, the silver cable seems to help clear or tighten up the bass to a rather fairly large degree and opens up the sound quite a bit.

I also see that you have picked up a pair of Proline 2500, has have I. We'll have to compare notes on those open headphones once we've had the chance to burn in and listen to our new toys.

Ralph

 

[Dexdexter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline /img/forum/go_quote.gif As I've stated many people, as in quite a large number, find the Ultrasones to have a "muddy" sound...

This is simply not true, Ralph. The "m-word" as regards to Ultrasone has been perpetuated largely by only one member that I can recall, although he has indeed used it repeatedly here, all based on a single, very brief experience under less-than-optimal meet conditions. Hardly convincing or even credible, as impressions go.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is simply not true, Ralph. The "m-word" as regards to Ultrasone has been perpetuated largely by only one member that I can recall, although he has indeed used it repeatedly here, all based on a single, very brief experience under less-than-optimal meet conditions. Hardly convincing or even credible, as impressions go.

As Duffy Duck would say "Where is this dastardly thread crapper? Why I'll show him a thing or two!"

However, I have hear more than one person use the "m-word" in regards to the sound of the Ultrasones, both here and elsewhere.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline /img/forum/go_quote.gif In answer to your question regarding the bass of the Sennheiser headphones versus the bass of the Ultrasone headphones - short answer: NO COMPARISON. The Sennheiser HD650s have a very nice refined and pleasant bass which would never offend anyone while the Ultrasones have what they should market as something catchy like "BwB", short for "Bass with Balls", which is bass the way it should be slightly unrefined and often times just a bit offensive. If you're easily overwhelmed by bass while listening to headphones think twice before getting the Ultrasones otherwise go for it. In any event you really can't go wrong with either pair of headphones since they are both top flight cans and the difference between them come down more to a matter of personal preference than anything else. Also the longer you remain undecided the longer you're not listening to either of these great headphones

I find the bass in the PROLines far better than the HD650, you need to use a good amp to tame it, and make it sound its best, once you got a good amp you are on the way to go....the HD650 is a fine headphone but as many others the presentation is not so natural in comparison to any Ultrasone....

Properly amped both are fine heapdhones...but I preffer the PROLines, of course he is not asking about the PROlines, and he is comparing the non top of the line heapdhones from Ultrasone, to the top of the Senns current flagships...a more fair comparison would be the PROLines..which bass aside of having balls, as you say is also realistic and more refined...

 

[Dexdexter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif I preffer the PROLines, of course he is not asking about the PROlines, and he is comparing the non top of the line heapdhones from Ultrasone, to the top of the Senns current flagships...a more fair comparison would be the PROLines..which bass aside of having balls, as you say is also realistic and more refined...

Actually, Alberto, the HFI-2200 ULE were at one point the top-of-the-line offering from Ultrasone (with the exception , of course, of the Edition 7), coming just before the creation of the PROline range. In fact, as I have posted here previously, they are PROlines in every technical aspect:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif To add further to the confusion, the 2200s are really PROlines in everything but their name; they are the open-back counterpart to the closed-back PROline 650s, just as the PROline 2500s are to the closed-back PROline 750s. They have the same Mu-metal shielding, detachable cord, and speed-switch ear-pads as all the PROlines do, so in essence the 2200s were the very first PROlines, only appearing before Ultrasone began to fill out that range with extra cords, ear-pads and fancy packaging.

And listing at $299, I certainly have no reason to believe the 2200s would be embarrassed in the company of the HD650. Hopefully, the OP will be able to hear them both.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, Alberto, the HFI-2200 ULE were at one point the top-of-the-line offering from Ultrasone (with the exception , of course, of the Edition 7), coming just before the creation of the PROline range. In fact, as I have posted here previously, they are PROlines in every technical aspect: And listing at $299, I certainly have no reason to believe the 2200s would be embarrassed in the company of the HD650. Hopefully, the OP will be able to hear them both.

Sorry Dex, but I'm not familiar with the Ultrasone complete line of heapdhones, just the PROLines and Editions...but IIRC it uses gold plated diaphragms in the drivers instead of titanium, that may give it a different flavor which not being familiar with, I would refrain from commment on, the titanium vaporized drivers are consider the best drivers by Ultrasone themselves, of course that may carry some discussion given certain preferences, but accosding ot them, right now their top heapdhones are he PROLInes...below the Editions...

 

[Dexdexter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry Dex, but I'm not familiar with the Ultrasone complete line of heapdhones, just the PROLines and Editions...but IIRC it uses gold plated diaphragms in the drivers instead of titanium, that may give it a different flavor which not being familiar with, I would refrain from commment on, the titanium vaporized drivers are consider the best drivers by Ultrasone themselves, of course that may carry some discussion given certain preferences, but accosding ot them, right now their top heapdhones are he PROLInes...below the Editions...

Yes, yes, and yes again, Alberto, you are correct here, BUT my point was that the gold-plated closed-back PROline 650 has an exact counterpart in the HFI-2200 ULE which should really be called the PROline 2200 if Ultrasone were truly consistent about their product names.

Of course, the titanium-plated PROline 2500 and 750 remain at the top of the PROline range, but the PROline 650 and 2200 are equally well-constructed and by no means off the pace with a warmer presentation due to their respective drivers.

Different flavors for different tastes.

 

[dbfx]

anyone know where i would be able to test some hd650s in the LA area

?