[jipajappa]

Hey guys,
 
I posted yesterday about trying to find nice cans for classical, and I think I've narrowed down to two options, the HD600 and the DT880.  
 
Which would you recommend? Also if you recommend the DT880, would you recommend the 600 or 250?  Based on what I've read, some people think that the DT880 sounds too "analytical" and the trebles are fatiguing, but other people say that the HD600 has a "veil".  I like a lot of clarity when listening to classical; I don't know if that gives either one an advantage.  
 
Also, what DAC/ amp would you recommend? I'd like to not spend more than $450 total (for phones and amp).  
 
Thanks,
Mark
 
Update: I have settled on buying the Fiio E7/E9 to go with whatever cans I buy, just because it seems like these are the best in my price range.  Any opinions on which cans would do better paired with the E7/E9?

 

[IcedTea]

Do you have any gear at the moment? or are you starting from scratch?

 

[Bee inthe Attic]

Do you want to listen to classical from a more analytical or musical perspective? They both sound amazing, so it's personal preference.
 
If you've narrowed your search down to 2, you should test them both out and see which sound you like better.
Or buy both from a place where you can easily return the other.
Not sure if comfort is a huge factor for ya; but while I find the HD600 quite comfortable, the Beyer's are in a league of their own, as they're the most comfortable set of cans I've ever used.
 
As for amps: search on here for budget amps under $150. I personally use Fiio's e9 (amp) and e10 (DAC/amp) together, which sounds nice for the price. They will drive the HD600 just fine. As for the DT880, I have read that the 600Ω needs a good (i.e. expensive) amp to shine, so look at the 250Ω unless you feel like you might upgrade your amp in the near future. I haven't heard the 600Ω though, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. Read the reviews and see what's best - or better yet, try them out yourself.

 

[nikp]

Both are excellent cans.
 
HD600 has a better timbre while DT880 has a bigger soundstage and is more analytical. The HD600 has no veil at all. I personally preferred the HD600 for classical just because of the better timbre. 

 

[jipajappa]

Quote:

Do you have any gear at the moment? or are you starting from scratch?

I don't have any gear and would be starting from scratch; I'd need an amp/DAC in addition to the cans.


Quote:

Do you want to listen to classical from a more analytical or musical perspective? They both sound amazing, so it's personal preference.
 
If you've narrowed your search down to 2, you should test them both out and see which sound you like better.
Or buy both from a place where you can easily return the other.
Not sure if comfort is a huge factor for ya; but while I find the HD600 quite comfortable, the Beyer's are in a league of their own, as they're the most comfortable set of cans I've ever used.
 
As for amps: search on here for budget amps under $150. I personally use Fiio's e9 (amp) and e10 (DAC/amp) together, which sounds nice for the price. They will drive the HD600 just fine. As for the DT880, I have read that the 600Ω needs a good (i.e. expensive) amp to shine, so look at the 250Ω unless you feel like you might upgrade your amp in the near future. I haven't heard the 600Ω though, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. Read the reviews and see what's best - or better yet, try them out yourself.

Do you (or anyone else) have an opinion on how much difference there is between the DT880 600 and 250, assuming that both were played through a really good amp?
 

 
Quote:

Both are excellent cans.
 
HD600 has a better timbre while DT880 has a bigger soundstage and is more analytical. The HD600 has no veil at all. I personally preferred the HD600 for classical just because of the better timbre. 

Out of curiosity, when you say it's better for classical, are you referring to symphonic music, solo instruments, chamber music, or just classical in general?  I'd be using them for all sorts of classical, so I want to make sure they perform well across the genre.  
 

 

[aroldan]

I know that the HD600 is used for classical recordings monitoring in studios.

 

[skeeder]

I had the HD600's and LOVE them for classical very warm sound.
 
Not sure on the DT880's I'm sure someone can comment.

 

[nikp]

Quote:

Out of curiosity, when you say it's better for classical, are you referring to symphonic music, solo instruments, chamber music, or just classical in general?  I'd be using them for all sorts of classical, so I want to make sure they perform well across the genre.  
 

Classical in general. They are solid top performers! If I could have only two cans for classical it would be the HD800 for large scale orchestras and the HD600 for solos, etc (those who require more intimacy rather than a big soundstage). 

 

[stv014]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jipajappa /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Do you (or anyone else) have an opinion on how much difference there is between the DT880 600 and 250, assuming that both were played through a really good amp?

 
I recommend reading the comparison here, but in short the 600Ω versions have slightly better quality overall, and the difference in tonal balance is that the 250Ω versions are slightly brighter with more recessed mids around 1.5-2 kHz. But these are smallish differences, the 250Ω is still quite good (or even better if you happen to prefer the brighter sound). The E9 is actually not bad for the 600Ω version, it might not make the sound "warm" like a tube amp, but then you will not like the 250Ω with it either anyway.
 

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Both are excellent cans.
 
HD600 has a better timbre while DT880 has a bigger soundstage and is more analytical. The HD600 has no veil at all. I personally preferred the HD600 for classical just because of the better timbre. 

I tend to think that folks who claim the HD600 has a veil might be performers, or those who prefer front row seating. In either case, they sit where the overall frequency balance is indeed tilted toward the highs...likewise, those who tend to listen with IEM's more regularly probably think the Senns are "veiled".
 
To me, the HD600 balance is the equivalent of a few rows back in the first balcony (where I would prefer to sit for a live performance, anyway!)
 
I just received a pair of slightly used DT880-250's today, and it's hard for me to say yet if there is really more detail, or if that's just an impression due to the bump in their frequency response in the 5-10kHz range versus the HD600's.
 
I'm already sure of one thing, on program material that is mastered on the bright side of neutral, the DT880's would be fatiguing in far less time than the HD600's.

 

[lejaz]

The hd580 which shares the same drivers as the hd600, is fantastic with opera. It brought me right into the opera house...great realism. Never heard the dt880, so I can't compare, but midrange timbre is very good with the 580/600 and if you're choosing a phone for classical....or jazz for that matter....a natural, true to life, midrange is more important than the highs....and probably the bass, too. 

 

[juantendo8]

Quote:

I tend to think that folks who claim the HD600 has a veil might be performers, or those who prefer front row seating. In either case, they sit where the overall frequency balance is indeed tilted toward the highs...likewise, those who tend to listen with IEM's more regularly probably think the Senns are "veiled".
 
To me, the HD600 balance is the equivalent of a few rows back in the first balcony (where I would prefer to sit for a live performance, anyway!)
 
I just received a pair of slightly used DT880-250's today, and it's hard for me to say yet if there is really more detail, or if that's just an impression due to the bump in their frequency response in the 5-10kHz range versus the HD600's.
 
I'm already sure of one thing, on program material that is mastered on the bright side of neutral, the DT880's would be fatiguing in far less time than the HD600's.

I would describe the difference this way. Two of the most common pianos that concert pianists come across are Steinways and Yamahas. (Think HD600 and DT880.) Yamahas are brighter and generally have a greater clarity, especially in the lower bass to mid-bass region. Despite this fact however, the tone, timbre, and power of the Steinway is almost universally preferred to the Yamahas in classical circles and with artists. I think that we have the fake perception that classical music needs to always be played on bright headphones when it is clearly not a philosophy that the musicians themselves follow.
 
Despite this, the DT880 is a superb phone, and terrific contender with classical. I would still give my tip of the hat to the HD600 however for having terrific timbre and not really being less detailed than the Beyer although it may give that impression. To me, it just gives a slightly more convicting performance with its heavier body.
 

 

[sssboa]

For classical I would recommend AKG K-701 + creek obh-21se
If DT 880 vs HD600, HD600 are for people afraid of clear raw sound, they give castrated bundled sound, if they were a horse it would be a pink pony with golden mane. If a solo of Jimmi Hendrix's guitar or Charlie Parker's sax or Miles Davis's trumpet gives you pain and suffering you may be very happy with HD600. When I first tried HD600 I thought someone put somethninng on drivers so I removed the sponges and tried to clean the insides, HD555 give more neutral crisp sound though still veiled.
DT 880 600 vs 250 ohm, 600 are just better in everything if amped well, Little Dot MK II is sufficient to amp them, tho it will be warm tube sound not sure if good for classical. For classical 250 ohm and solid state amp could be better as not that warm.  
 
 

 

[nikp]

Quote:

I tend to think that folks who claim the HD600 has a veil might be performers, or those who prefer front row seating. In either case, they sit where the overall frequency balance is indeed tilted toward the highs...likewise, those who tend to listen with IEM's more regularly probably think the Senns are "veiled".
 
To me, the HD600 balance is the equivalent of a few rows back in the first balcony (where I would prefer to sit for a live performance, anyway!)
 
I just received a pair of slightly used DT880-250's today, and it's hard for me to say yet if there is really more detail, or if that's just an impression due to the bump in their frequency response in the 5-10kHz range versus the HD600's.
 
I'm already sure of one thing, on program material that is mastered on the bright side of neutral, the DT880's would be fatiguing in far less time than the HD600's.

True that! 
 
On the veil, I guess it has different meanings. I'm both a pianist, violinist and percussionist (not a performer anymore though) and I won't say that the HD600 has a veil. It is a tad laid back and that's it. It's all subjective really but imo, the HD600 just is more neutral than the DT880. The violins are actually bright in nature and I think the DT880 reproduces it well. But like you said, brightness quickly decreases as you move further back in the audience. The presentation is just different between the two. Would you rather hear them directly in front of you or on stage? Both are excellent choices. Imo, I prefer the HD600's presentation and the timbre on it is just to die for.
 
Classical stuff aside, the DT880 kicks HD600's behind when it comes to movies (soundstage size). I am serious, I miss my DT880.
 

 

[sssboa]

Quote:

True that!
 
On the veil, I guess it has different meanings. I'm both a pianist, violinist and percussionist (not a performer anymore though) and I won't say that the HD600 has a veil. It is a tad laid back and that's it. It's all subjective really but imo, the HD600 just is more neutral than the DT880. The violins are actually bright in nature and I think the DT880 reproduces it well. But like you said, brightness quickly decreases as you move further back in the audience. The presentation is just different between the two. Would you rather hear them directly in front of you or on stage? Both are excellent choices. Imo, I prefer the HD600's presentation and the timbre on it is just to die for.
 
Classical stuff aside, the DT880 kicks HD600's behind when it comes to movies (soundstage size). I am serious, I miss my DT880.
 

It is all subjective probably because I was looking for that timbre in  HD600 I even removed protective covering of drivers, I looked every nook and cranny but I didn't find it. Timbre on hd600 has soft round edges to me. I think they are also much coloured hence nothing close to neutral. Also think veil is not like standing away from the source, it's more like processed sound to me against raw/analogue sound of Beyerdynamic/Grado. To me in ascending neutrality would be:
Hd600 /least neutral/
HD595/555 (tho little detail)
DT880 250
DT880 600 (if properly amped)
AKG K-701 /most neutral tho no reverberance of sound, like listening in gigantic hall or in open space hence good for classical music, they give no intimacy needed for jazz/blues/soul//