[tlniec]

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Yea definitely upgrade to the Senn HD600/650's.  I owned the 595's for a couple years and the first time I heard the HD600 I wanted to punch myself in the face for not spending the extra $50 and getting the HD600's in the first place.  At least with the HD600/650's you skip the lower tier of headphones and go straight into where the performance is at.  Not saying the HD595 isn't a good phone but you'll notice the difference right away.

Question -- the price discrepancy I'm seeing now between the 595 and 600 is substantially larger (~$250 difference, or put another way, ~3X the price of the HD595).  If that had been the case when you compared them, would you have been kicking yourself as much?  I don't mean to go down the path of "sure it's better, but is it $X better?"  But now that I've made the mistake of continuing to read forums after buying new headphones, I can't help but second-guess myself...
 

 

[sugarkang]

The question isn't quite "is it x dollars better?"
That's because $1 means different things to people. 
In addition, a big part of that equation is whether you like a lot of bass.
 
 
 
Quote:

Question -- the price discrepancy I'm seeing now between the 595 and 600 is substantially larger (~$250 difference, or put another way, ~3X the price of the HD595).  If that had been the case when you compared them, would you have been kicking yourself as much?  I don't mean to go down the path of "sure it's better, but is it $X better?"  But now that I've made the mistake of continuing to read forums after buying new headphones, I can't help but second-guess myself...
 

 

[Poetik]

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Yea definitely upgrade to the Senn HD600/650's.  I owned the 595's for a couple years and the first time I heard the HD600 I wanted to punch myself in the face for not spending the extra $50 and getting the HD600's in the first place.  At least with the HD600/650's you skip the lower tier of headphones and go straight into where the performance is at.  Not saying the HD595 isn't a good phone but you'll notice the difference right away.

Question -- the price discrepancy I'm seeing now between the 595 and 600 is substantially larger (~$250 difference, or put another way, ~3X the price of the HD595).  If that had been the case when you compared them, would you have been kicking yourself as much?  I don't mean to go down the path of "sure it's better, but is it $X better?"  But now that I've made the mistake of continuing to read forums after buying new headphones, I can't help but second-guess myself...
 

If you're smart about it then you'll go to the for sale forum and see that a used HD600 is around $200 while you can find used HD650 for around $250.  When I first bought my HD595's it was around $150 without tax or shipping.  If I would've known that I could have just upgraded to an HD600 for $50-100 more I would've gladly done it.  That's just my experience but the difference was so positive that I make it a point to always say it on threads that mention the HD595. 
 
For instance here's an HD600 with a HD650 cable for $215:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/532635/fs-sennheiser-hd-600-with-hd-650-cable
 
If you can afford it then buy it and compare it to your HD595's.  I bet you'll feel the same about it being an upgrade.  Also you can't really put it into perspective with the X amount of dollars equation.  All I can say is that the HD600's are a technically better headphone and you'll hear it the instant you put it on.  I'll leave whether or not it's worth it up to your ears. 

 

[tlniec]

Thanks for the helpful replies.  That is a good point, it is probably fair enough to compare used w/ new in this case... and the value proposition certainly improves with used.  I don't think I could justify keeping both the 595 and a 600/650, but I still have a little time to return the 595. 
 
So thinking about the 600 and 650 more, I think I've got some more specific questions rather than just "how much better." 
1. I listen to rock (and some metal and industrial) more often than acoustic or classical music.  One thing I've heard said about the 595 is that it has a more forward midrange and treble than some of the other Senns, making them a good (better?) match for rock music.  True?  Half-true?  Way off-base? 
2. One of the virtues of the 595 is how easy it is to drive.  The 600 and 650, by contrast, are generally accepted as needing a good amplifier, and also being quite revealing of "weak links" in the signal chain.  I'm not opposed to looking at amplification and improved sources if I do step up to a 6xx.  Right now I generally listen to CDs from an old Sony DVP-S550D DVD player (late '90s) directly from the headphone out, or I run a Toslink to a very modest Sony STR-DG510 A/V reciever and use its headphone out... or I run digital audio coax from my PC's sound card to that same STR-DG510.  Am I looking at needing a significant investment in a DAC/headphone amp if I go with a 600/650?  Or would something modest, like the Fiio E7+E9 possibly suffice?  And should I be considering this anyway, even if I keep the 595?
3. I am also using my headphones for a fair amount of XBox 360 gaming and Blu-Ray movies via a wireless Astro Mixamp.  Will the 600/650 still be suitable for this purpose?  Will I likely need to use some sort of amplifier between the Mixamp's output and the headphone, due to the 600/650 being tougher to drive?
 
Sorry for the lengthy question... but now that I've narrowed down my search a bit (I'm pretty well convinced I want to stick with Sennheiser Dynamic phones), I'm ready to dig deep into details.  Any thoughts are appreciated!

 

[Poetik]

Quote:

Thanks for the helpful replies.  That is a good point, it is probably fair enough to compare used w/ new in this case... and the value proposition certainly improves with used.  I don't think I could justify keeping both the 595 and a 600/650, but I still have a little time to return the 595. 
 
So thinking about the 600 and 650 more, I think I've got some more specific questions rather than just "how much better." 
1. I listen to rock (and some metal and industrial) more often than acoustic or classical music.  One thing I've heard said about the 595 is that it has a more forward midrange and treble than some of the other Senns, making them a good (better?) match for rock music.  True?  Half-true?  Way off-base? 
2. One of the virtues of the 595 is how easy it is to drive.  The 600 and 650, by contrast, are generally accepted as needing a good amplifier, and also being quite revealing of "weak links" in the signal chain.  I'm not opposed to looking at amplification and improved sources if I do step up to a 6xx.  Right now I generally listen to CDs from an old Sony DVP-S550D DVD player (late '90s) directly from the headphone out, or I run a Toslink to a very modest Sony STR-DG510 A/V reciever and use its headphone out... or I run digital audio coax from my PC's sound card to that same STR-DG510.  Am I looking at needing a significant investment in a DAC/headphone amp if I go with a 600/650?  Or would something modest, like the Fiio E7+E9 possibly suffice?  And should I be considering this anyway, even if I keep the 595?
3. I am also using my headphones for a fair amount of XBox 360 gaming and Blu-Ray movies via a wireless Astro Mixamp.  Will the 600/650 still be suitable for this purpose?  Will I likely need to use some sort of amplifier between the Mixamp's output and the headphone, due to the 600/650 being tougher to drive?
 
Sorry for the lengthy question... but now that I've narrowed down my search a bit (I'm pretty well convinced I want to stick with Sennheiser Dynamic phones), I'm ready to dig deep into details.  Any thoughts are appreciated!

As for the sound I can't really remember too much about the HD595's because it's been almost 2 years since I've heard them but here's a graph with a HD555 (basically the same as a HD595) and a HD600 and HD650.  It will sort of give you an idea of how they both will perform but you won't really know until you hear the differences.  I can honestly say that the instant I heard the HD600's I knew I would never listen to the HD595's ever again. 
 
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID[0]=563&graphID[1]=&graphID[2]=853&graphID[3]=573&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones
 
the E7+E9 will definitely drive the HD600/HD650's to most of their potential.  A lot of people will say the HD600/HD650's are very demanding headphones but it's such an overstatement.  You can easily at least get 80%+ of the potential of those headphones with that setup. 
 
 

 

[fcpchop88]

don't forget there are two versions of the hd595, the 120 ohm version would obviously benefit more from your amp setup, I assume yours is the 50 ohm version.

 

[tlniec]

Yep, mine are the 50-ohm version.  It's weird, I have this strong compulsion to pick up the HD650 + E7/E9 combo.  But yet I don't really feel like there's anything "wrong" with my HD595 (I'm enjoying the heck out of them when driven by MixAmp for gaming, or by my very modest Sony A/V receiver for music).  Maybe if I hurry, I can get the new setup here before I leave the return window for the HD595s, and compare side-by-side.  Or maybe I should just forget about being able to return the HD595s, since I got them for such a bargain (the $117 Amazon deal).

 

[Poetik]

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Yep, mine are the 50-ohm version.  It's weird, I have this strong compulsion to pick up the HD650 + E7/E9 combo.  But yet I don't really feel like there's anything "wrong" with my HD595 (I'm enjoying the heck out of them when driven by MixAmp for gaming, or by my very modest Sony A/V receiver for music).  Maybe if I hurry, I can get the new setup here before I leave the return window for the HD595s, and compare side-by-side.  Or maybe I should just forget about being able to return the HD595s, since I got them for such a bargain (the $117 Amazon deal).

You never know until you try.  I would at least "try" out an HD650 or HD600 before you decide on permanently keeping your HD595's. 

 

[Skarecrow77]

I gamed on the HD-650s for 5 years. They make phenominal gaming cans. you can wear them virtually forever and never get exhausted by the sound nor have uncomfortableness on the ears/head. At least, I never did. My 650s may clamp a bit less than others out there.
 
It sounds like you're already set on the 650s, but you may still want to consider the Beyer DT-880s. They're good in almost all the same places the 650s are good, I find them more detailed and resolving, with better bass. I find that they're a bit more in-your-face, without losing the soundstage the 650s have. Plain and simple, the Beyers rock harder. Don't get me wrong, they're not perfect cans, but they may be what you're looking for.
 
Actually my Beyers remind me a lot (a whole lot) of my Senns with the Moon audio Silver Dragon cable, for about half the overall cost of that setup. The thing is, as good as that setup sounded, it always felt like I was trying to push the senns to do something they weren't quite meant for, and I eventually went back to the stock(!) copper cable when the left channel on my silver dragon died. The beyers feel like they're meant for this. I really like them.
 
That said, I went to the 650s from the senn hd-590s. the 590s were the fore-runner to the HD-595s, and they were great cans. They made me realize what was possible with sound, and made me end up on head-fi in the first place. I loved those headphones. I replaced them with the hd-650s and an amp, and that combo -demolished- the 590s. What I'm saying here is that HD-600, HD-650, DT880, any of them you're going to be really happy with, especially with your e7/e9 combo.

 

[tlniec]

Why did you have to bring up the DT880s?  I worked so hard to narrow down my scope of search, and there you go opening it back up!    At least I'm pretty well set on the Fiio E7/E9 DAC/AMP combo for any high-impedance can I might buy... so I'm no longer 100% indecisive!
 
Seriously, though, the DT880 600-ohm is quite intriguing, especially at the current pricing.  I'm not one to shy away from treble, and the perception of detail it brings (I am quite a fan of Klipsch speakers, the ones with horn-loaded tweeters).  That's actually my main lingering reservation about the HD650.  It's one of those things that would be so easy to answer if I could try them (better yet, A/B them with the Beyers)... but of course, nobody in Iowa seems to have them on-hand.  I can say the HD595s I have now provide adequate treble for my tastes, but I wouldn't object to a headphone with more "sparkle" (nor would I be devastated by a headphone with a little less).
 
I do have a question about the HD650 vs DT880 -- maybe you can answer, since you've had both.
I REALLY like the way the HD595 feels on my head (and works with my ears), due to the elliptical shape of the earcups -- and the HD650 looks similar in that regard.  The DT880, on the other hand, appears to have more of a round earcup shape -- the cups also look larger (though I know pictures on the web can be deceiving).  The reason that concerns me is the other circumaural headphone with round cups I've tried (ATH AD700) just flat out did not work for me -- unless the pair I had was defective, something about the way the AD700 sat on my head and the size/shape of earcups prevented me from getting good left/right channel balance.  Soooooo, getting to the point -- how would you compare the fit of the HD650 to the DT880? 

 

[Skarecrow77]

Quote:

Why did you have to bring up the DT880s?  I worked so hard to narrow down my scope of search, and there you go opening it back up!    At least I'm pretty well set on the Fiio E7/E9 DAC/AMP combo for any high-impedance can I might buy... so I'm no longer 100% indecisive!
 
Seriously, though, the DT880 600-ohm is quite intriguing, especially at the current pricing.  I'm not one to shy away from treble, and the perception of detail it brings (I am quite a fan of Klipsch speakers, the ones with horn-loaded tweeters).  That's actually my main lingering reservation about the HD650.  It's one of those things that would be so easy to answer if I could try them (better yet, A/B them with the Beyers)... but of course, nobody in Iowa seems to have them on-hand.  I can say the HD595s I have now provide adequate treble for my tastes, but I wouldn't object to a headphone with more "sparkle" (nor would I be devastated by a headphone with a little less).
 
I do have a question about the HD650 vs DT880 -- maybe you can answer, since you've had both.
I REALLY like the way the HD595 feels on my head (and works with my ears), due to the elliptical shape of the earcups -- and the HD650 looks similar in that regard.  The DT880, on the other hand, appears to have more of a round earcup shape -- the cups also look larger (though I know pictures on the web can be deceiving).  The reason that concerns me is the other circumaural headphone with round cups I've tried (ATH AD700) just flat out did not work for me -- unless the pair I had was defective, something about the way the AD700 sat on my head and the size/shape of earcups prevented me from getting good left/right channel balance.  Soooooo, getting to the point -- how would you compare the fit of the HD650 to the DT880? 

You can not choose wrong in the HD-650 vs DT880 discussion. The cans aren't that far away from one another (see Sugarkang's review comparison, it should be a few pages back from the front page). It's just where they differ that I prefer the DT880s. Of course, my DT880s are brand new (They've got about 20-25 hours on them) and my HD-650s are 6 years old (thousands of hours on them) so it could just be "new hardware giddyness".
 
The Senns fit better. I don't believe I have big ears, but the senn's oval earcup doesn't touch anything but the very bottom of my earlobes. The Beyers are slightly larger, but only slightly. They do touch both my earlobes and the tops of my ears, but it's not very distracting. 98% of the pressure is on the side of my head, like it should be, not my ears. I only notice it simply because I came from 10 years of sennhesier headphones (the 570s/590s I had were a similar shape to the 650s, more like a teardrop than oval, but similar overall) that never did that.
 
when it comes to headphone comfort, I'd give the DT880s a 7.5/10 or maybe 8/10 once they break in a bit more. They clamp harder than my 650s, and they touch ears, but those are both minor concerns that may diminish with time. The 650s are probably a solid 9/10, or at least my well-broken-in ones were. The 590s were a 10/10. I don't think it would be possible to improve on the 590s, I really DID "forget they were on my head" and try to walk away from the computer while still plugged in a few times with those. That has -almost- happened with the 650s, but I don't think I could forget with the DT880s. That's not really a bad mark on the DT880s, it's just that they're being compared to some of the very best in the comfort arena. Compared to headphones at large, they're easily still in the top tier of comfort.
 
I've got a review thread called "DT880 First Impressions" that should be on page 2 or 3 (maybe 4 by now) if you want to see my inital thoughts on 650 vs 880.
 
If you can't test the two out (as I couldn't), just blindly pick one and take the plunge at some point. Neither one is a bad choice. You're trying to decide between cake or pie here, either one is awesome, and whichever one you choose now, you can always pick up the other one at a later point. from a money point of view, the HD-650s are not $100 better than the DT880 600ohm version. From a "I have the money, which can is better?" point of view, there is no clear answer. It's personal preference. I simply noted some of your musical preferences and thought that while the HD-650 can handle of of those with aplomb, the DT880 may emphasize the quality traits of them a bit better.
 
One final note. Last night I had my first "What" audio moment in a long time. I was listening to a song I'd heard easily hundreds of times. I was really -listening- to it for the first time in a long time, and the DT880 showed me new stuff. I didn't know that was still possible. I actually had to pause and rewind the song to see if I really heard it. I did.

 

[tlniec]

Thanks again, for another helpful and detailed reply.  While unable to locate any HD650s or DT880s, I was able to find a local shop with DT770s.  I didn't actually listen to them, but I placed them on my head to try and determine how much I'd like wearing them (as compared to the Senns).  This was predicated on the assumption that the DT770s are basically the same size/shape as the 880s (they appear to be in pictures).  I have to say I wasn't thrilled by the feel of the DT770 on my head -- it probably didn't help that this particular pair had experienced a lot of wear+tear, but they reminded me a lot of the ATH AD700s (which did not work for my head at all).  So I think I can elimiate the Beyers.
Now my final dilemma seems to be coming down to -- HD600 vs HD650.
Some say the 600 is superior for "faster-paced" music, especially rock - whereas the 650 caters more to classical.  Not sure how much truth there is to that, though. 

 

[dnmtsn]

so, I got them both. Denon AHD2000 and Sennheiser HD650. So far I like them both (duh...), didn't have time for enough listening to really compare. I'm also not sure if it's a night-and-day difference compared to 595. There definitely is a difference, I'm just not sure how huge it is. Not sure if it's eargasmic. I'll take a couple more days and hopefully spend some time to A-B them (or ABC...) during the weekend. 
 
But before that, I have a problem with the HD650 - they screech. Not the actual phones,  but the mechanical articulation where the headband joins the can makes this little screeching noise everytime I move my head. I am almost considering oiling it, if I only knew what with. It is not a huge thing, just that on a 350USD product I wouldn't expect it, it feels like poor manufacturing.  Is this normal? Does it go away? I read almost all I could find on this forum about the HD650 and I don't remember this being mentioned by anyone. 

 

[Bacci]

I agree with the diminishing returns remark. You'll notice the difference over the HD595, but it'll be incremental. 
I'm fairly new to this too and compared to one of my other hobbies (astronomy) where the science/product is mostly in line with its price, I can't help but notice there's a lot of voodoo and marketing in the audiophile equipment business, followed by cognitive dissonance (after paying $$$ for these cans the mind convinces they sound great) in the heads of the new owners reflected through praise in fora like this one.