[Il Mostro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif 650 is smooth with a deep, resonant sound. 600 sounds a bit thin and bright by comparison.

Another way of expressing this is the 600 is more neutral and accurate, as opposed to the bloated, overly colored and even slower sound of the 650.

 

[Hellenback]

Quote:

has solved the "veil" problem

I've always found this terminology a bit pejorative and a little misleading. I think Senns (especially the 650s) have a pretty flat sound with none of the boosted mid-range/treble that seems present in some other cans. Because of this IMO it just takes a bit of acclimation to hear that all the frequencies are well represented. I do personally hear a difference (brighter) with a silver/copper alloy cable (and even with a Cardas) and think Sennheiser could have done a better job with their own cable. This would no doubt have increased the cost and is the most likely reason for the modular cable design. They are pretty hard cans to beat for the money unless your preference is "bright".

 

[Hellenback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Mostro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another way of expressing this is the 600 is more neutral and accurate, as opposed to the bloated, overly colored and even slower sound of the 650.

I believe this can come down to personal preference but I have owned both at the same time (for some time) and found after extensive listening that (to my ears) everything present in the 600s is also there in the 650s...and more. Again, I believe it to be a matter of acclimation. I compared nearly every genre of music over the time I had both, and found the 650s to be the better "all round" phone. I couldn't afford to keep both and could not give up the 650s.
I should add that I bought the newer "wire mesh" material version of the 650s and have found them to be better than the first generation, which I compared at a few meets. I find terms like "bloated" and "slow" to be completely misleading when it comes to describing the sound of these excellent headphones. Lastly, I need to say it is not a matter of "buyer's remorse" or blind dedication that makes me stay with my decision. I paid almost exactly the same price for the 600s as I did the 650s and have continued to compare the two at meets I attend. They are both top-tier headphones with my personal nod going to the more "muscular" sound of the 650s. YMMV

 

[Vkamicht]

I've ordered a 600 new from Amazon and it's on its way... when I get my VDA-2 back from CIAudio and my VHP-2, I shall post my impressions. If the sound doesn't satisfy (I am someone who does like a "full" sounding headphone) then I suppose I'll have to fork over the extra $50 and get the 650s...

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Some people mention what amp they are using, and some don't. I think it's very important information, because for me an amp that is good for HD600 is not always good with HD650 which I find to be more demanding and pickier about their amp.

 

[Hellenback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some people mention what amp they are using, and some don't. I think it's very important information, because for me an amp that is good for HD600 is not always good with HD650 which I find to be more demanding and pickier about their amp.

x2
I should have included this information. Right now I just have a Perreaux SXH1 and a Headstage Arrow. The twice as powerful SXH2 brought out a lot more of the 650's potential. (It gave out twice, so I sadly returned it.) I found Canuck57's Darkvoice 337 even better. Then there's Prickley Peete's balanced AudioGD rig paired with his (obviously balanced) 650s. Right now, I can only dream of owning a set-up like his. It's nice to know that the headphones I own right now are capable of producing sound of this quality.
Although some on this forum have said that a portable amp just cannot drive the 650s, I would simply say that they can't bring out all of their potential. I even enjoy using them with the Arrow, perhaps because it has more available voltage than most portables, but I also enjoyed listening through a Pico and a Xenos EPC when I owned them.
I have to agree with HeadphoneAddict that the 600s are easier to drive, but both scale well with better amplification. Giving hard and fast advice about most things audio is not a good idea because people's preferences and expectations are so different. I just try to give a personal impression of what I hear and like (or dislike). As I'm sure others have said many times; this would be one boring hobby if everyone preferred the same headphones!
I've read, and agree with what Boomana said in her thread about full sized cans needing a desktop amp to achieve the sound they were designed to produce. Still, I'd rather have the 650s with a (very) good portable amp than other headphones I've heard. Thanks to meets and friends, I've heard quite a few (certainly not all). I know there are better headphones out there, but for my $300 limit at the time, I couldn't find any. I bought them because they sound great now and are only going to sound better once I can afford to feed them the "heavy fuel".

 

[Il Mostro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vkamicht /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've ordered a 600 new from Amazon and it's on its way... when I get my VDA-2 back from CIAudio and my VHP-2, I shall post my impressions. If the sound doesn't satisfy (I am someone who does like a "full" sounding headphone) then I suppose I'll have to fork over the extra $50 and get the 650s...

I am currently listening to the HD600's with the VHP-1/VAC-1 via a decidedly high end transport/dac combination. It is more than "full" sounding -- meaty and juicy but with detail (Tom Waits *is* contributing to these characteristics; I almost need to wipe his saliva from my ears). I've switched back and forth between different digital front ends and the same general sound quality is there. With your VDA-2 in the mix I think you will be pretty friggin' happy.

Edit: I neglected to mention my Cardas re-cable, but the stock cable will still be plenty good.

 

[knights]

which is easier to drive, the 600 or 650? is 595 really that lagging compared to 2 mentioned cans in terms of SQ? can p3+ properly drive the 600?

 

[pp312]

1. Both the same.
2. Not to my ears.
3. Dunno.

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by knights /img/forum/go_quote.gif which is easier to drive, the 600 or 650? is 595 really that lagging compared to 2 mentioned cans in terms of SQ? can p3+ properly drive the 600?

In my experience, the 600s don't need as much power to fully drive them as the 650s, but can be more selective regarding synergy with amplifiers.

The 555s are certainly lagging in comparison, and they reportedly have the same drivers as the 595s.

Don't know about p3+, but would try the 555 mod without an amp before anything else, as I have heard the 595s aren't bad at all un-amped.

 

[Hellenback]

Quote:

Edit: I neglected to mention my Cardas re-cable, but the stock cable will still be plenty good.

IMO there is a significant difference in the SQ of the 600s when paired with a Cardas cable. It fills out the sound and is preferred by plenty of people to the sound of the 650s without a cable upgrade. This combination is considered by many to be one of the the best sounding set-ups (when properly amped) under $1000 (as are the 650s with a different cable).
I thought we were addressing the sound of the"stock" headphones. Seeing as the Cardas cable costs over twice as much as the difference between the two cans, I hope it would make a difference!
Many here think that the Cardas is ideal with the 600s while a brighter cable (i.e. a silver/copper alloy) pairs better with the 650s. Some just swap the original 600 cable for the stock 650 one and find an improvement in the 600's sound. I presently use a Cardas with the 650s (left over from when I had the 600s) but am waiting delivery of a silver/copper alloy cable. Part of the fun of owning either headphone is their ability to be improved upon with better "aftermarket" cabling and complimentary amplification. I have always felt there were benefits to both sets of cans. Although I ultimately decided on the 650s and prefer it with most of the music I listen to, it was a tough call and difficult to give up the 600/Cardas combo. If I could have afforded it I would have kept both headphones. Even with the Cardas I prefer the sound of the 650s, but by far less a margin. Of course as always, YMMV as we all have different ears.

 

[grokit]

Well said, Hellenback. I am one of those who tried a stock 650 cable in my 600s and noticed improvement right away. I think Sennheiser USA charges $17-18 for one. I agree with the rest of your post as well regarding cable upgrades for the HD600/650s.

 

[Hellenback]

Quote:

I agree with the rest of your post as well regarding cable upgrades for the HD600/650s.

It seems a pretty obvious improvement to me although some claim not to hear a difference.
I do find most brand name cables over priced, but if you can get a deal or even better learn to make them yourself, it's well worth it. As many have said, we really need to learn to listen and trust our ears!

 

[jclaytonsound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellenback /img/forum/go_quote.gif It seems a pretty obvious improvement to me although some claim not to hear a difference. I do find most brand name cables over priced, but if you can get a deal or even better learn to make them yourself, it's well worth it. As many have said, we really need to learn to listen and trust our ears!

Agreed. There is clear, audible difference between the 600 and the 650 cable for me in regards to details, and even more between the 650 cable and a DIY Cardas I was able to secure for $60 shipped. I refused to spend $200 on a cable, but if you can find a good price it will be well worth your money.

 

[tdogzthmn]

I found the HD600 stock cable to have a fuller and richer sound than the HD650 cable. I also agree that most after market cables are way too expensive. Money is much better spend improving your source or amp.