[rnadell]

I am new to the headphone side of life and my first pair of phones are Fostex t50rp's
mod by Mayflower and a Matrix amp. Well I should have listened to my little voice, 
I really want a tube amp so I have been agonizing over the 600/650 choice and I am 
leaning toward the 600. With that said I am wondering whether or not you can reach a 
point where the headphones disappear as in my 2 channel speaker system?
Thanks'

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

I am new to the headphone side of life and my first pair of phones are Fostex t50rp's
mod by Mayflower and a Matrix amp. Well I should have listened to my little voice, 
I really want a tube amp so I have been agonizing over the 600/650 choice and I am 
leaning toward the 600. With that said I am wondering whether or not you can reach a 
point where the headphones disappear as in my 2 channel speaker system?
Thanks'

600 are more accurate and flatter.  The 650 are great, but whether people prefer them or not (and there's nothing wrong with that) the treble is a tad more recessed and thus less accurate.  And no, not that I've heard of.  Speakers are speakers.  Headphones are headphones.  I've yet to hear anything that would fool me into thinking I was listening on a speaker.  Realism perhaps, but not the impression of listening to a speaker itself...  But these sound 'close' being an open back headphone and very high quality...

 

[blueangel2323]

I am new to the headphone side of life and my first pair of phones are Fostex t50rp's
mod by Mayflower and a Matrix amp. Well I should have listened to my little voice, 
I really want a tube amp so I have been agonizing over the 600/650 choice and I am 
leaning toward the 600. With that said I am wondering whether or not you can reach a 
point where the headphones disappear as in my 2 channel speaker system?
Thanks'

 
Yes it is possible, but it will set you back a few grand. It's called the Smyth Realiser. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/smyth-research-realiser-a8-processor-and-headphones-page-2

 

[luisdent]

T

Yes it is possible, but it will set you back a few grand. It's called the Smyth Realiser. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/smyth-research-realiser-a8-processor-and-headphones-page-2

that's pretty cool. I want to try one

 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

After making my head spin a 1000X from reading all these threads I've come to the conclusion that if the HD650 is powered correctly it is better than the HD600. HOWEVER, that's a big IF. Do any of you know if a SONY STR-6800 SD receiver will give the 650 enough juice. I'm mainly going to use the headphones to play records through my receiver. If it's not strong enough how much would it cost to get a nice used headphone amp that works well with the 650? 

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

After making my head spin a 1000X from reading all these threads I've come to the conclusion that if the HD650 is powered correctly it is better than the HD600. HOWEVER, that's a big IF. Do any of you know if a SONY STR-6800 SD receiver will give the 650 enough juice. I'm mainly going to use the headphones to play records through my receiver. If it's not strong enough how much would it cost to get a nice used headphone amp that works well with the 650? 

 
How did you come to that conclusion?  Some people prefer the slightly warmer sound, but they are pretty much the same earphone with less treble.  If you're looking for perfect flatness and accuracy the hd600 are better.  If you prefer a slightly (very slightly) recessed treble to give the slight impression of more bass or less fatigue, then the hd650 are better.  But for critical listening, monitoring and just plain accuracy, the hd600 are better.  This can be heard and seen in graphs and specs.
 
That doesn't mean people don't have a preference towards each.  And neither is "the best" earphone for everyone.  It depends on what you're looking for.  Accuracy?  Comfort of listening?  Bass?  Body?  Crispness?  I prefer the 600, but then again I prefer the 650 over every other headphone other than the 600.

 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Quote:

 
How did you come to that conclusion?  Some people prefer the slightly warmer sound, but they are pretty much the same earphone with less treble.  If you're looking for perfect flatness and accuracy the hd600 are better.  If you prefer a slightly (very slightly) recessed treble to give the slight impression of more bass or less fatigue, then the hd650 are better.  But for critical listening, monitoring and just plain accuracy, the hd600 are better.  This can be heard and seen in graphs and specs.
 
That doesn't mean people don't have a preference towards each.  And neither is "the best" earphone for everyone.  It depends on what you're looking for.  Accuracy?  Comfort of listening?  Bass?  Body?  Crispness?  I prefer the 600, but then again I prefer the 650 over every other headphone other than the 600.

I don't know. If all those things are really true it seems like the HD600 is scientifically the better headphones and is superior to the HD650 where it matters. Seems like the 650's are the wimpier headphone. If that's the case I'll take the 600's. 
 
However, when people say the 650 does everything the 600 does with a fuller sound I think then how can the 650 not be better than the 600? 

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

I don't know. If all those things are really true it seems like the HD600 is scientifically the better headphones and is superior to the HD650 where it matters. Seems like the 650's are the wimpier headphone. If that's the case I'll take the 600's. 
 
However, when people say the 650 does everything the 600 does with a fuller sound I think then how can the 650 not be better than the 600? 

 
Because it is all a matter of presentation and personal preference.  The hd650 have a very similar response to the hd600 but with a little less treble.  What does that do to the sound?  It makes the other frequencies sound more prominent.  If everything under the treble is a little more prominent it will sound "fuller" in the fact that they have more low frequencies.  That doesn't make them more accurate.  A lot of people prefer this.  Even I like a "full" headphone.  Sometimes it is easier to listen to on certain music where the treble can be harsh or annoying.  However, the hd600 will be representing the music closer to how it was recorded.

Let me stress that the difference between the two is pretty small when you consider the difference between either of them and any other headphones.  I think you'd be happy with either if you like the sound.  But I prefer the more accurate treble.  Chimes, cymbals, snares, strings, etc. will all have a little bit more air and clarity.  Check out these graphs for a comparison.  The sound is pretty much what it looks like in the case of these two sets:
 
HD650:
 

 
HD600:

 
Now look at the green line, that is essentially what their interpretation of "flat" should be.  The low bass on both is pretty much identical.  The mids are a little lower on the hd600, but again, closer to the reference line being flatter.  But look at the treble.  The hd600 is pretty much flat up to 18khz.  Even around 4khz the hd650 starts becoming less "reference" in flatness.  Also the difference in the mids is less than the difference in the treble.  I find that if there were one thing either of these could do to be more perfect, it would be to ever so slightly low the mid bass.  But as it is the treble helps the hd600 sound less mid bass prominent.
 
Basically, you have a flatter more open sound (slightly) or a warmer more full sound.  The 600 is "technically" a tad bit more accurate.  That doesn't mean everyone will think it sounds better though.

 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Ok I think you've convinced me. And anyway these little tweaks you've talked about can be done with my receiver. One last thing I have to ask would the treble being drawn back a bit on the 650's reduce how much you can hear sibilance on some records? Just curious. I doubt it would but had to ask.

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

Ok I think you've convinced me. And anyway these little tweaks you've talked about can be done with my receiver. One last thing I have to ask would the treble being drawn back a bit on the 650's reduce how much you can hear sibilance on some records? Just curious. I doubt it would but had to ask.

 
Neither of them are very sibilant in my opinion, and the sibilant area for vocals are generally between 5-8khz, so while the hd650 are a little lower in that regard, the main difference will be the lack of a slight amount of "air" in the higher treble, as that is where it drops the most (still just a little).  So realistically, on a very sibilant track the 650 might "mask" the sibilance just a very small amount, but I would say the 600 would represent it as it was recorded more closely.  But the difference will be pretty small so that the benefit overall would be more air and clarity all the time.

 

[luisdent]

I should add that although it doesn't make them any more accurate, a lot of people will base their decision on the type of music they listen to.  I listen to a lot of very well mastered tracks with a lot of dynamics and ambience and air.  So the hd600 sound great.  For someone who loves nothing but rap, the hd650 would give the bass more presence and some may prefer that for that style. Again, the hd600 will be more accurately representing the original recording, but genres of music do typically lend them to certain eq settings or sound signatures for most people.  I prefer flat for everything from BT to George Winston.  Some people might want more thump in their music.  Just saying.  I chose the HD600 because I thought they sounded more open and clear, even though just a bit.

 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Neither of them are very sibilant in my opinion, and the sibilant area for vocals are generally between 5-8khz, so while the hd650 are a little lower in that regard, the main difference will be the lack of a slight amount of "air" in the higher treble, as that is where it drops the most (still just a little).  So realistically, on a very sibilant track the 650 might "mask" the sibilance just a very small amount, but I would say the 600 would represent it as it was recorded more closely.  But the difference will be pretty small so that the benefit overall would be more air and clarity all the time.

Ok that makes sense. I think I finally made my decision. Thank you for answering my questions with actual facts. You made my decision a lot easier. Is amazon the best place to get 600's? I'd like a good deal but don't want to be screwed out of the warranty.

 

[luisdent]

I would buy them from amazon or sweetwater.  Sweetwater has great reps and I get all my really pricey gear from them.  I bought my hd600 from amazon though.

 

[Nowhere]

Quote:

Ok that makes sense. I think I finally made my decision. Thank you for answering my questions with actual facts. You made my decision a lot easier. Is amazon the best place to get 600's? I'd like a good deal but don't want to be screwed out of the warranty.

 
got mine from razordogaudio for around 320. should be able to find a discount code somewhere around here.

 

[TheWhiteRabbit]

Quote:

I should add that although it doesn't make them any more accurate, a lot of people will base their decision on the type of music they listen to.  I listen to a lot of very well mastered tracks with a lot of dynamics and ambience and air.  So the hd600 sound great.  For someone who loves nothing but rap, the hd650 would give the bass more presence and some may prefer that for that style. Again, the hd600 will be more accurately representing the original recording, but genres of music do typically lend them to certain eq settings or sound signatures for most people.  I prefer flat for everything from BT to George Winston.  Some people might want more thump in their music.  Just saying.  I chose the HD600 because I thought they sounded more open and clear, even though just a bit.

 
I'm with you then. The 600's definitely sound like they're my headphone.
 
Quote:

 
got mine from razordogaudio for around 320. should be able to find a discount code somewhere around here.

 
 
Thanks for the tip!!!