[nc42acc]

In my system the X20 has bested an Auralic Vega, Schiit Yggdrasil, Line Magnetic LM502CA. No glare that I can hear, as a matter of fact the Yggdrasil was more splashy than the X20. YMMV

 

[mocenigo]

  @mocenigo..as with all things audio, it's all subjective, but I'll try to explain.
 
Yes, when you reduce the volume at -6 the excessive forcefulness of the x-20's delivery is somewhat tamed, but I detect a slight decrease of the sound quality towards a certain steeliness (maybe because using the volume we have moved into digital domain?)

 
Well, you are already in the digital domain and you do not "enter" it by attenuating. The DAC internally works at 32 bits of precision (probably a bit less) and volume attenuation is done on the signal before actually conversion. So there should be no loss of SQ if you attenuate just a bit.  I do not perceive any.  As for steeliness, I cannot really say. What I perceive is that it is almost fastidiously linear.
 

  Don't even mention putting the volume above zero..the distortion is audible (actually, in the very first days,not knowing any better, I did that, and now I just hope I did not damage my preamp!).
So, it's all kind of perplexing: here is a beautiful machine, all the bells and whistles of a super up-to-date DAC, that (IMHO) falls short of greatness.

 
Falling short of greatness on an absolute scale is to be expected for a device that is relatively inexpensive, despite the great bang for the buck.
 

  Maybe it's just not made for me ..evidently the audio-legend of the "Sabre-glare" happens to be true for me (this is my first Sabre, before I had WM8741), and I need to go towards R2R.
I sense that the X-20 could deliver best results if married with the inherent warmness of a tube-based rig, but this is not my case.

 
If it possible that there is some sabre-glare or delta-sigma-glare. However, I often wonder how much of this is self-suggestion (I am not saying I am not immune). let me make an example: if we expect a certain DAC to have some digital glare, then we unconsciously look at those traits that we - rightfully - identify as glare in the sound. If we on the other hand expect a certain DAC to ha a more "analogue" sound, then we unconsciously prioritise, during active listening, those aspects of the sound that we associate to a more analogue timbre. I am not implying that you are making this mistake - I wonder how much this influences also my listening, for instance.
 
In fact, you clearly state "Maybe it's just not made for me" and there are different tastes. For other people this DAC may be the best ever. For me it is "just" excellent. For you, it may not be to your taste. It also depends on the coupling with other electronics: you mention that it may pair well with tube amps - in fact even though my Abrahamsen amps are solid state, they are to the Electrocompaniet lineage and their sound has been often described as "tube like". I may just be lucky, but as long as my chain is well sounding to my ears...
 
Roberto

 

[hyperdanny]

   
1- Well, you are already in the digital domain and you do not "enter" it by attenuating.
 
 
2 -Falling short of greatness on an absolute scale is to be expected for a device that is relatively inexpensive, despite the great bang for the buck.
 
 
3 If it possible that there is some sabre-glare or delta-sigma-glare. However, I often wonder how much of this is self-suggestion (I am not saying I am not immune). let me make an example: if we expect a certain DAC to have some digital glare, then we unconsciously look at those traits that we - rightfully - identify as glare in the sound. If we on the other hand expect a certain DAC to ha a more "analogue" sound, then we unconsciously prioritise, during active listening, those aspects of the sound that we associate to a more analogue timbre. I am not implying that you are making this mistake - I wonder how much this influences also my listening, for instance.
 
Roberto

 
Hello Roberto,
 
(i put numbers before your sentences to answer more clearly)
 
about point 1- : thank you I wasn't sure...I had in my mind this (unproven) idea that you enter digital domain whan you put the volume above or below zero...evidently it's wrong,
 
point 2- : of course you're right, ( I bought mine from the Italian Amazon for EUR 799 all included and delivered, can't complain too much)
 
point 3- yes, who knows if this assumption I am making is somewhat  "self-induced"..impossible to say..what I can say for sure is that I had no preconceptions about the Sabre, I generally am a very un-dogmatic person, and I tend to listen and then judge.
 
Whatever the reasons, my issues , however not critical, remain...

 

[BrainFood]

In my system the X20 has bested an Auralic Vega, Schiit Yggdrasil, Line Magnetic LM502CA. No glare that I can hear, as a matter of fact the Yggdrasil was more splashy than the X20. YMMV

 
That's quite something considering the price differences.  What amplification are you using, out of interest?  DDC?

 

[nc42acc]

Non headphone system. Aurender N10, Gustard X20, Rogue Audio ST100, Von Schweikert VR5 Anniversary MKII

 

[mocenigo]

Non headphone system. Aurender N10, Gustard X20, Rogue Audio ST100, Von Schweikert VR5 Anniversary MKII

 
That's quite a system! So you are connecting the DAC directly to the power amp. And the speakers, they are a legend.

 

[hyperdanny]

Non headphone system. Aurender N10, Gustard X20, Rogue Audio ST100, Von Schweikert VR5 Anniversary MKII

oh, no....the Rogue ST-100  is the amplifier I SO wanted to buy...and I couldn't because the brand is not imported here in Italy! you happy with it?

 

[nc42acc]

The Gustard X20 seems to be made to drive a power amp direct. It has plenty of output and the remote volume control works great. I am using the balanced outputs of the X20 into the balanced inputs of the ST100. The ST100 is a great amp, all the detail and clarity of a good SS amp with the wonderful tube midrange and holographic imaging.

 

[mocenigo]

The Gustard X20 seems to be made to drive a power amp direct. It has plenty of output and the remote volume control works great. I am using the balanced outputs of the X20 into the balanced inputs of the ST100. The ST100 is a great amp, all the detail and clarity of a good SS amp with the wonderful tube midrange and holographic imaging.

This has been debated in this thread a few times indeed. It all boils down to the impedance matching between the Gustard's output and the power amp's input. At the moment I have a slight preference towards using the preamp, but the difference is tiny: the scene is marginally larger when the Gustard directly drives the power amp, but perhaps also slightly less deep, and the sound may be also slightly more fatiguing. This goes a great length to say how splendidly transparent (and musical) is the Abrahamsen V30 UP.  
 
 Roberto

 

[BrainFood]

Four weeks in and *finally* getting some good sound out of the damn thing. That's after changing over to dual PC's linked together with fibre optic cards, cables and a switch (the latter arrived yesterday).
 
Evidently my single PC wasn't cutting it previously because there was a warm colouration and a cloudy forwardness that didn't sound particularly linear. It's now dramatically more open and clear. 
 
The X20 is a fine tool for telling you all about the rest of your system downstream. The bad news is that it needs to in order because the DAC will tell you all about it 

 

 

[mocenigo]

  Four weeks in and *finally* getting some good sound out of the damn thing. That's after changing over to dual PC's linked together with fibre optic cards, cables and a switch (the latter arrived yesterday).
 
Evidently my single PC wasn't cutting it previously because there was a warm colouration and a cloudy forwardness that didn't sound particularly linear. It's now dramatically more open and clear. 
 
The X20 is a fine tool for telling you all about the rest of your system downstream. The bad news is that it needs to in order because the DAC will tell you all about it 

 

This sounds nice indeed (sorry for the pun). 
 
Yesterday I tried some DSD files from my mac with Audirvana. Typical audiophile demo music (chick with guitar, piano solo, jazz trio) and, my first reaction was "Ok somebody hid a turntable in my room - and a darn good one. But where is it?"
 
 Roberto

 

[BrainFood]

This sounds nice indeed (sorry for the pun).

 
Yes, very encouraging 

 

 

[Triplefun]

  Four weeks in and *finally* getting some good sound out of the damn thing. That's after changing over to dual PC's linked together with fibre optic cards, cables and a switch (the latter arrived yesterday).
 
Evidently my single PC wasn't cutting it previously because there was a warm colouration and a cloudy forwardness that didn't sound particularly linear. It's now dramatically more open and clear. 
 
The X20 is a fine tool for telling you all about the rest of your system downstream. The bad news is that it needs to in order because the DAC will tell you all about it 

 

Have you tried some of the newer PC mobos with isolated USB audio ports?
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/gigabyte-digital-analogue-converter-motherboards-25173/
Or Paul pang USB cards
http://ppaproduct.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/audio-grade-usb-30-pcie-card.html

 

[nc42acc]

Roberto I feel the same way. Very analogue presentation.

This sounds nice indeed (sorry for the pun). 

Yesterday I tried some DSD files from my mac with Audirvana. Typical audiophile demo music (chick with guitar, piano solo, jazz trio) and, my first reaction was "Ok somebody hid a turntable in my room - and a darn good one. But where is it?"

 Roberto

 

[BrainFood]

  Have you tried some of the newer PC mobos with isolated USBUSB audio ports?
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/gigabyte-digital-analogue-converter-motherboards-25173/
Or Paul pang USB cards
http://ppaproduct.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/audio-grade-usb-30-pcie-card.html

 
Thanks! Those boards look interesting but I use two embedded (SOC) types, which I like.  PPA card too.

 
Trouble with 'computer audio' is that there are so many variables affecting the sound, it's difficult to know what's causing what
 
In any case, the X20 seems to appreciate a good level of transport (be it CD, PC etc) and amplification.