[mocenigo]

  I would think these high voltage (correction) DACs preamps would mate well with a good passive preamp.  Unfortunately my current tube pre has a very high gain.
I'm confidant X20 can be reigned in using any number of accoutrements (PUC2 lite, DSD, whiplash polestar, pink ear muffs)
My primary interest ATM is that IIS port and I'm really liked the it with the mapleshade hdmi cable.

 
If the passive preamp is based on autoformers, then these must be able to support quite high input voltage without saturating or otherwise the gain of the power amp must be quite high.
 
 Roberto

 

[BrainFood]

  First off I wanted to second the adjective you used, "forced".  When I heard the Gustard X12 against my Yulong D18 it was the same word that came to mind.  The X20 isn't free of that either.  I think it's excess voltage (2.2/4.4) may have something to do with that.  You'll want to set the filter to "slow" to mitigate this impression.

 
Voltage is actually 2.8/ 5.6, according to the Gustard manual
 
http://yun.baidu.com/s/1jH1SCg2
 

 

[Triplefun]

  I'd like to chip in and say that I prefer the sound of my X20 when I use JRiver to convert my files to DSD128, with filter settings at 70k. It sounds more coherent and less forced.
 
I understand what you mean by "forced". When I switched from the Yulong D100 to the X20, although every quality of the sound was better on the X20, it just sounded "forced". It seemed like it was congested, but it wasn't. You could hear all the details, but they were always too loud(?), even at low volume levels. Perhaps you can say that the instrument imaging on this DAC is very big. 
 
The technical aspects of this DAC is excellent, really. The bass too, amazing bass.

 
I agree with this even to the point I have bought a Gustard U12 to generate an I2S signal for the X20.
The U12 supports DSD256 with modified thesycon drivers - see post 341 for links to the drivers.
The X20 supports native DSD256 over I2S.
DSD256 upsampling in JRiver or Foobar is smoother (less 'forced') compared to DSD128, DSD64, and PCM.
 
Also, if anyone is looking to buy the X20, I strongly suggest you get the X20 without USB
And use what you save to purchase something like the U12 to generate the I2S signal.
The U12 has its own built-in  PSU and connects to the X20 using standard HDMI cables - probably the shorter the better.
It's a shame the X20 doesn't support DSD256 on the USB port.

 

[wwmhf]

   
Voltage is actually 2.8/ 5.6, according to the Gustard manual
 
http://yun.baidu.com/s/1jH1SCg2
 

 
Those are quite high compared with the norm of 2.0

 

[wwmhf]

   
I agree with this even to the point I have bought a Gustard U12 to generate an I2S signal for the X20.
The U12 supports DSD256 with modified thesycon drivers - see post 341 for links to the drivers.
The X20 supports native DSD256 over I2S.
DSD256 upsampling in JRiver or Foobar is smoother (less 'forced') compared to DSD128, DSD64, and PCM.
 
Also, if anyone is looking to buy the X20, I strongly suggest you get the X20 without USB
And use what you save to purchase something like the U12 to generate the I2S signal.
The U12 has its own built-in  PSU and connects to the X20 using standard HDMI cables - probably the shorter the better.
It's a shame the X20 doesn't support DSD256 on the USB port.

 
I like your suggestion which makes a lot more sense. A possible minor drawback is not easy to move your equipment around because one has to move two pieces instead of one. 

 

[BrainFood]

The Luckit WaveIO usb to i2s card looks an interesting option.  Look forward to impressions.
 
 
http://luckit.biz/product/waveio/
 
 
Quote:

 
I've ordered a WaveIO card and an Audio GD I2S to HDMI socket 
converter card. 

 

[Wynnytsky]

   
Voltage is actually 2.8/ 5.6, according to the Gustard manual
 
http://yun.baidu.com/s/1jH1SCg2
 

that link didn't work for me.  I looked on ebay and shenzhenaudio.com and they both say 2.3/4.6, which is the same as that invicta DAC.  Still high.

 

[BrainFood]

Sometimes you need to reload the page a few times.
 
 

 
This higher figure was also confirmed by 'a Gustard engineer', according to one of the X20 ebay sellers I contacted. 

 

[mocenigo]

   
Those are quite high compared with the norm of 2.0

 
If 2.0 is the norm for unbalanced, then would be the norm 4.0 for balanced. I know of products, for instance, having 1.6 and 3.2
 
 Roberto

 

[MINORISUKE]

  .....
It's a shame the X20 doesn't support DSD256 on the USB port.

This is incorrect.

 

[Wynnytsky]

  Sometimes you need to reload the page a few times.
 
 

 
This higher figure was also confirmed by 'a Gustard engineer', according to one of the X20 ebay sellers I contacted. 

I ran into trouble with a Hegel HT 100 fed by the X20's XLR outputs.  On Hegel's site they say...

The Hegel SoundEngine local error cancelling system prevents distortion in the audio amplifier circuit stages
 

After some loudness tests it sounded like voice coils were damaged, but the issue was gone when I switched to RCA.  I ended that day thinking the Hegel's XLR inputs were suspect.  This spring I'll re-open the case and see if the X20 is to blame.

 

[hyperdanny]

   
Just to be clear, I wasn't referring to a shrill or bright character-  if anything the X20 sounds a little warmer and less airy than I was expecting. Nope, it's more a forced quality, as if you can almost hear the DAC's excessive gain coming through in the sound somehow (even though volume range is set correctly and doesn't go that loud).  
 
 

perfect choice of words..it's exactly my same impression after a few months: yes it's a very good DAC for sure, but the music doesn't quite "flow" naturally ..it's more of a "push and shove" thing, and I am sure that the excessive XLR voltage has a lot to do with it... the output level never feels 100% "right", even when you play a bit with the volume, just as you say.
I even doubt if the V figures that are circulating (4.6? 5.6?) are totally accurate (it's just too loud), and I wonder if a preamp could be damaged..

 

[Wynnytsky]

"push and shove"
another good one
 
when the X12 first visited my beats laboratory, it was the contrast to my own Yulong D18 that told me the X12 was forced.  In the short time I had my X20 plugged in, I found it to to be less so (though I didn't have the X12 to A/B with).  That said, if shenzhenaudio.com is saying the X20 is 2.3/4.6, and it's really 2.8/5.6, then what of the X12 they list as 2.5/5.0?  Perhaps it's actually 3.0/6.0

 

[mocenigo]

  "push and shove"
another good one
 
when the X12 first visited my beats laboratory, it was the contrast to my own Yulong D18 that told me the X12 was forced.  In the short time I had my X20 plugged in, I found it to to be less so (though I didn't have the X12 to A/B with).  That said, if shenzhenaudio.com is saying the X20 is 2.3/4.6, and it's really 2.8/5.6, then what of the X12 they list as 2.5/5.0?  Perhaps it's actually 3.0/6.0

I am curious, however. Even if the output is that high at full volume, placing the volume at -6Db would give 1.4/2.8V, which should be fine. So why should it sound like "push and shove" (assuming this is caused by distortion in the pre due to excessive input level)?
 
Edit: it also depends whether on the X20 the ESS9018 DACs are used in current or voltage mode - which I do not know.

 

[hyperdanny]

@mocenigo..as with all things audio, it's all subjective, but I'll try to explain.
 
Yes, when you reduce the volume at -6 the excessive forcefulness of the x-20's delivery is somewhat tamed, but I detect a slight decrease of the sound quality towards a certain steeliness (maybe because using the volume we have moved into digital domain?)
At zero the sound is fine, but it is already way too forced, sound doesn't quite flow naturally, hence the "push and shove".
Don't even mention putting the volume above zero..the distortion is audible (actually, in the very first days,not knowing any better, I did that, and now I just hope I did not damage my preamp!).
So, it's all kind of perplexing: here is a beautiful machine, all the bells and whistles of a super up-to-date DAC, that (IMHO) falls short of greatness.
 
Maybe it's just not made for me ..evidently the audio-legend of the "Sabre-glare" happens to be true for me (this is my first Sabre, before I had WM8741), and I need to go towards R2R.
I sense that the X-20 could deliver best results if married with the inherent warmness of a tube-based rig, but this is not my case.