GUSTARD H10 High-current Discrete Class A output Stage Headphone Amplifier

[blasjw]

   
How many AD797ANZ for H10?
I'm  planning to buy this item , any recomended eBay seller who sell AD797ANZ?
 
~ron~

 
www.mouser.com
www.newark.com
www.digi-key.com
www.partsconnexion.com

 

[moriez]

  They require a business e-mail address.

 
I didn't. Personal e-mail address did the trick. Nice open communication with their support too.

 

[blasjw]

   
I didn't. Personal e-mail address did the trick. Nice open communication with their support too.

Looks like U.S. requires it.

 

[jazzwave]

Ok, I will order from Partconnexion
 
AD797AN and AD797ANZ has similiar spec , right?
 
Here what I see in PartConnexion site

 

[natemact]

Yep they are the same, they've just omitted the z. You'd do well to grab 2x lme49720na or 2x lme49860na (pic shows SOIC version instead, wrong pic right part) for your H10 as well when placing your order for the 797's. Unfortunately they don't have a whole lot to chose from for 5532 replacements. Surprisingly though they only charged me $.81 for shipping (yes that's cents) compared to the $20 Mouser and Digikey want.

I think I'm gonna try some lme49990's (2 mounted to an adapter, 4 in total) in the i/v stage as well as a couple of lme49720ha's (metal cans), won't be buying the metal cans from Parts Connexion though as their price is silly at $27 each (even with their $1 shipping still more than the competition). Looking at grabbing a couple of ad797brz too, mounting them on adapters and comparing them to the grade A 797's. From what I've read the B grade is noticeably better performing.

 

[jazzwave]

Order placed
Cost : $27 for two including tax
 
~ron~

 

[ansi]

   
Very informative and down to earth read. I've asked @ansi to try and get ''Mr.Gustard's'' opinion on how other op-amps behave in the H10 circuitry. Should be interesting.

 
So, the original design uses two dual op amps which are 5532, and two single which are 134. Gustard recommends sticking with 5532 and 5534 when you swamp them out.  
 
Edit: Oh and there is a discontinued brand that you can recognize by a big S. In China we just call it "big S". Those are a supposed to be a good fit. Cheap too, couple of bucks in here at least.

 

[moriez]

Thanks for the feedback ansi!
 
Did he say anything specifically about the behavior or effects of other op-amps? That's what I'd like to know. Could you ask him if he didn't?

 

[ansi]

  Thanks for the feedback ansi!
 
Did he say anything specifically about the behavior or effects of other op-amps? That's what I'd like to know. Could you ask him if he didn't?

 
He said he can tell you what works well, which is 5532 and 5534, but it's hard to say about stuff that the amp is not designed around. You really just need to try.

 

[mylica]

   
He said he can tell you what works well, which is 5532 and 5534, but it's hard to say about stuff that the amp is not designed around. You really just need to try.

This is what works well for me.
 
Single channel - using AD797
Dual channel - using 5532 ( more detail compare to 2604) or opa2604 (smooth warm sounding)
 
Thanks

 

[DDDamian]

Curious on other recommendations for a slightly brighter, highly detailed sound?

 

[406382]

   
Yes, I'm sure it's safe to connect the Magni to the H10 via headphone-out to RCA. I have been doing the Mani to Capella amp for about a month now, and the Capella designer even told me it's safe as long as I don't set the volume to clipping levels. It's giving me a very detailed, full bodied sound with good soundstage like one amp times two should be 

. Here is a posting from another user about his similar pairing. It's with the Capella to H10 amp, but I think it has a similar output level as the Magni:
 
"Alright, I made it work and it does sound better. Connection is Capella 1/4 jack to H10 RCA. 
All relative but: bass is tighter and sub-bass is much stronger. Much more detail extraction, more organic sounding (especially vocals!), more dynamic, soundstage is holographic, much more expansive.
I set the volume on max on the H10 and the gain is on stock/default. Capella's gain is anywhere between 50% to 75% and the volume knob between 25% to 75% to avoid the H10 clipping, distorting or a schitty signal. This technically won't cause any problems from what I've found (explained in the next paragraph). The issues I was hearing in channel balance, intermittent signal loss are heard when the Capella's gain knob isn't higher than 25% or if the H10 isn't at max volume. When the Capella's gain is lower than 25%, the signal becomes a distorted mess because of the insufficient current to the H10.
 
I researched this a bit more and the output voltage of the source/preamp needs to be higher than the input sensitivity on the power amp, which is +6dBu (1.5V rms) on the Gustard H10, and the Capella's volume control and gain needs to be set at a level that won't clip the H10's signal due to more current than its input can take. If I ever need more gain (which is unlikely to say the least) I can just set the H10 at a higher setting. 
The Capella's output impedance is also ideal for a preamp at 1K ohm (from the line out) driving a 68K ohm input impedance on the H10. Using the headphone out though, it goes down to 0.5 ohms technically, so I figure this would be even better to drive the H10 (quote from source: As a general rule, the lower the output impedance is, the better it will drive difficult loads). 
summary source for all of this (I've also seen these concepts mentioned/explained in multiple other places): http://www.decware.com/paper55.htm "
 
You can get a decent 3.5mm to RCA cable from Monoprice on the cheap, or get a full audiophile grade cable from Audioquest Evergreen at not a bad price (the one I'm happily using).

 
The Monoprice-ish jack to RCA cable arrived today, I hooked it up the way described above. Must admit setting the H10 volume to max felt a bit uncomfortable. 
 
Unfortunately I cannot discern any noticeable difference with the Magni + H10 vs the H10 by itself. When I swap between the 2 amps in standalone configuration the differences can be heard again. Again, these are characteristics that stand out when comparing the 2, don't take them as absolute:
 
Magni: warmer mids and bloomier low end. More condensed, narrower soundstage
H10: wider soundstage but less prominent centerstage (sounds like the lead singer took a couple steps backward on stage), more neutral mids and lows
 
I think the Schiit sound might just be more for me. I'll wait what the HE-500 does on both amps. If it's the same story, I'm definitely selling the H10 for an Asgard 2

 

[Jhya]

 
H10: wider soundstage but less prominent centerstage (sounds like the lead singer took a couple steps backward on stage), more neutral mids and lows
 

 
Your description seems right on with my own impression of the stock H10 sound. The sound feels very warm/soft as if the singer is a few steps farther away, although the soundstage is wide and very detailed.
 

  Curious on other recommendations for a slightly brighter, highly detailed sound?
 

 
I just swapped in the MUSES02 opamp to replace the stock 5532. Wow, the first thing I noticed immediately is that the music comes right at you! The warmness/softness is now gone and all the details are crystal clear as if you are right in front of the stage. Bass dynamics has also dramatically improved with more impact and punches. The sound signature I would describe as brighter and much more transparent than stock 5532, I had to turn down the volume a tiny bit as listening to my previous level causes slight fatigue.
 
I will replace the stock 134 with AD797BRZ once the adapters arrive from Thailand. I'm hoping the AD797BRZ will tone down the brightness of the MUSES02 slightly as some people describe the 797 as dark sounding.

 

[DDDamian]

   
Your description seems right on with my own impression of the stock H10 sound. The sound feels very warm/soft as if the singer is a few steps farther away, although the soundstage is wide and very detailed.
 
 
I just swapped in the MUSES02 opamp to replace the stock 5532. Wow, the first thing I noticed immediately is that the music comes right at you! The warmness/softness is now gone and all the details are crystal clear as if you are right in front of the stage. Bass dynamics has also dramatically improved with more impact and punches. The sound signature I would describe as brighter and much more transparent than stock 5532, I had to turn down the volume a tiny bit as listening to my previous level causes slight fatigue.
 
I will replace the stock 134 with AD797BRZ once the adapters arrive from Thailand. I'm hoping the AD797BRZ will tone down the brightness of the MUSES02 slightly as some people describe the 797 as dark sounding.

Thank you sir! That is exactly what I was looking to hear. I have a few to roll, and currently have the AD797BRZ in which is a tad warm for my taste (listening on LCD2.2c's so go figure). Will throw the MUSES02 in for a spin. Cheers for the insights!

 

[DecentLevi]

@mark235, from what I can tell it would really be worth it in the long-run to hold onto your H10 amp. It looks like with op-amp rolling you should be able to customize the sound of this amp to your liking. And you just may run-across another headphone that has better synergy with the H10 later, as I'm sure you know that some 'cans match better with amps than others. Take for example the posts above on the op-amps, if you're bold enough to open it up and start popping in different circuits in there.