GUSTARD H10 High-current Discrete Class A output Stage Headphone Amplifier

[DDDamian]

  I was gonna go with dildobaggins but it seemed a bit too much.

Indeed lol. But top-marks for a nick-pick 

 

[moriez]

For anyone who's interested here's a link to an informative opamp article, 4 years old but still relevant.

 
Very informative and down to earth read. I've asked @ansi to try and get ''Mr.Gustard's'' opinion on how other op-amps behave in the H10 circuitry. Should be interesting.

 

[406382]

   
 
Alright, I will wait for a bit and give it another go.

 
I have no idea how far I am on the burn in, but... there's a change with the HD600 performance... a good one... and it ain't subtle. It's not so much that I expected this to happen, I'm not a believer in burn-in and was a bit sceptic about it. I might be a convert after tonight. 
 
The Gustard sounded bland and compressed on day 1. It seems to have stretched its legs properly now, and is opening up like the flowers in my Dutch garden. Soundstage has gotten bigger, there's more bass definition and depth, instrument & voice layering has gotten more distinctive while still remaining a musical whole. Initially, I didn't think the HD600 / Gustard combo was a whole lot better than the RS220. Did another A/B comparison tonight, and the HD600 sounds superior now in every way. Caspian's "Hymn for the greatest generation" sounds artificial and bland very quickly on lesser gear. It does so on the RS220, and also did on the HD600 from the sources I fed it so far. The Gustard changed that. And quality stuff like Moonstruck by Chris Jones or other Stockfish records now sound very good indeed. My fingers keep itching to turn up the volume, rather than down. Usually it's the opposite for me, when after 20 minutes of listening I get the first symptoms of listening fatigue and turn things down. Not so now. Another important yardstick of performance. For me at least. 
 
That HE-500 cable is welcome to arrive right about... now.

 

[lomonosoff]

What power this amplifier,12V or 15V.Is it possible to put AD8610?

 

[406382]

   
I have no idea how far I am on the burn in, but... there's a change with the HD600 performance... a good one... and it ain't subtle. It's not so much that I expected this to happen, I'm not a believer in burn-in and was a bit sceptic about it. I might be a convert after tonight. 
 
The Gustard sounded bland and compressed on day 1. It seems to have stretched its legs properly now, and is opening up like the flowers in my Dutch garden. Soundstage has gotten bigger, there's more bass definition and depth, instrument & voice layering has gotten more distinctive while still remaining a musical whole. Initially, I didn't think the HD600 / Gustard combo was a whole lot better than the RS220. Did another A/B comparison tonight, and the HD600 sounds superior now in every way. Caspian's "Hymn for the greatest generation" sounds artificial and bland very quickly on lesser gear. It does so on the RS220, and also did on the HD600 from the sources I fed it so far. The Gustard changed that. And quality stuff like Moonstruck by Chris Jones or other Stockfish records now sound very good indeed. My fingers keep itching to turn up the volume, rather than down. Usually it's the opposite for me, when after 20 minutes of listening I get the first symptoms of listening fatigue and turn things down. Not so now. Another important yardstick of performance. For me at least. 
 
That HE-500 cable is welcome to arrive right about... now.

 
While my experience with burn in on the Gustard still stands, I feel compelled to share some more relevant findings I did in the last 2 days. After listening to the burned in Gustard, my mind told me it was a better amp than the Schiit Magni (1st gen) by a long stretch. The Magni sounded harsh in treble to me before, and somewhat cold in general. Well, yesterday evening I decided to give the Magni another go and do a side by side comparison with the Gustard using the HD600. I swapped amps back and forth about 10 times, cause I had a hard time understanding my findings. The Magni sounded better. More Bass, more body. The Gustard sounded thin compared. It wasn't a night and day difference, but still quite noticeable. 
 
I am confused. What changed my opinion of the HD600 amp matches so much? Was the Magni not warmed up properly when I listened to it the first time? I wouldn't expect warmup to make such a difference. I am using the Magni with a voltage transformer. Maybe that thing needed to reach a certain saturation level, and I started playing too soon? One thing I do know is that my tonal preference does not change in a matter of weeks, so there's some variable at play here. 
 
I'll do more comparisons when the HE-500 cable arrives. Maybe the extra power will give the Gustard an advantage there.

 

[mylica]

   
While my experience with burn in on the Gustard still stands, I feel compelled to share some more relevant findings I did in the last 2 days. After listening to the burned in Gustard, my mind told me it was a better amp than the Schiit Magni (1st gen) by a long stretch. The Magni sounded harsh in treble to me before, and somewhat cold in general. Well, yesterday evening I decided to give the Magni another go and do a side by side comparison with the Gustard using the HD600. I swapped amps back and forth about 10 times, cause I had a hard time understanding my findings. The Magni sounded better. More Bass, more body. The Gustard sounded thin compared. It wasn't a night and day difference, but still quite noticeable. 
 
I am confused. What changed my opinion of the HD600 amp matches so much? Was the Magni not warmed up properly when I listened to it the first time? I wouldn't expect warmup to make such a difference. I am using the Magni with a voltage transformer. Maybe that thing needed to reach a certain saturation level, and I started playing too soon? One thing I do know is that my tonal preference does not change in a matter of weeks, so there's some variable at play here. 
 
I'll do more comparisons when the HE-500 cable arrives. Maybe the extra power will give the Gustard an advantage there.

 
What is your DAC?  But yes, that's a strange finding.  My gustard with HD600 is far from thin.

 

[DecentLevi]

@mark235 I have a suggestion: Go ahead and connect your Magni amp to the H10 amp. Yes I understand this is daisy-chaining, but I use this setup daily to my Beresford Capella amp. And the result is bar-none excellent. Everything that's 'mostly good' about the Magni is taken and preserved when it enters the Capella. Then the Capella picks up where the Magni left off, with a very realistic soundstage that extrudes deeply and with more details than I ever heard on the Magni. The connection is 3.5mm headphone-out to RCA (3.5mm to 6.5mm jack to RCA or 6.5mm to RCA; 1 normal headphone jack to 2 phono plugs), with the Magni turned up to about 75% volume. Another user does the Capella to H10 via headphone-out and he swears by it! Let us know after you try it, thanks! 

 

 

[DecentLevi]

PS Mark - I suspect that maybe the reason your Magni 1 could seem to sound better than your H10 could be because your gain settings on the H10 may not have been up to par or the volume may not have been consistent on both, and that you may get different results trying this same experiment with different headphones.

 

[406382]

   
What is your DAC?  But yes, that's a strange finding.  My gustard with HD600 is far from thin.

 
Schiit Modi 1
 

  @mark235 I have a suggestion: Go ahead and connect your Magni amp to the H10 amp. Yes I understand this is daisy-chaining, but I use this setup daily to my Beresford Capella amp. And the result is bar-none excellent. Everything that's 'mostly good' about the Magni is taken and preserved when it enters the Capella. Then the Capella picks up where the Magni left off, with a very realistic soundstage that extrudes deeply and with more details than I ever heard on the Magni. The connection is 3.5mm headphone-out to RCA (3.5mm to 6.5mm jack to RCA or 6.5mm to RCA; 1 normal headphone jack to 2 phono plugs), with the Magni turned up to about 75% volume. Another user does the Capella to H10 via headphone-out and he swears by it! Let us know after you try it, thanks! 

 

 
Is that safe? I'll have to find another pair of RCA cables before I can try this. 
 

  PS Mark - I suspect that maybe the reason your Magni 1 could seem to sound better than your H10 could be because your gain settings on the H10 may not have been up to par or the volume may not have been consistent on both, and that you may get different results trying this same experiment with different headphones.

 
I actually thought of this while testing and increased the volume on the H10 on purpose during several of the tests when switching back to it. That way it played louder than the Magni when the music started again. This did not help the H10's performance, somewhat louder was not better in any way.

 

[genclaymore]

Are you using +6 gain settings for the HE-500 which you flip on the dip switches in the rear.

 

[BassDigger]

  @mark235 I have a suggestion: Go ahead and connect your Magni amp to the H10 amp. Yes I understand this is daisy-chaining, but I use this setup daily to my Beresford Capella amp. And the result is bar-none excellent. Everything that's 'mostly good' about the Magni is taken and preserved when it enters the Capella. Then the Capella picks up where the Magni left off, with a very realistic soundstage that extrudes deeply and with more details than I ever heard on the Magni. The connection is 3.5mm headphone-out to RCA (3.5mm to 6.5mm jack to RCA or 6.5mm to RCA; 1 normal headphone jack to 2 phono plugs), with the Magni turned up to about 75% volume. Another user does the Capella to H10 via headphone-out and he swears by it! Let us know after you try it, thanks! 

 

 
I'm not an expert, but maybe this points to a possible weakness, with the H10.
Or it may not necessarily be a 'weakness' of the H10, just an inability to compensate for a possible weakness in the source component.
I'm talking about impedance matching; the H10 may be 'fussy' about the equipment that it's connected downstream of; it may have a less than 'world class' pre-section (not really a crime, for a bargain amp!).
 
It will be interesting to see what mark235 finds, when he can source the required cables.

 

[mylica]

   
I'm not an expert, but maybe this points to a possible weakness, with the H10.
Or it may not necessarily be a 'weakness' of the H10, just an inability to compensate for a possible weakness in the source component.
I'm talking about impedance matching; the H10 may be 'fussy' about the equipment that it's connected downstream of; it may have a less than 'world class' pre-section (not really a crime, for a bargain amp!).
 
It will be interesting to see what mark235 finds, when he can source the required cables.

 
Mark's finding is interesting.  H10 didn't sounds thin on my HD600.  It is the opposite.  I am using 797 and NE5532 btw

 

[406382]

   
What is your DAC?  But yes, that's a strange finding.  My gustard with HD600 is far from thin.
 

 
Maybe I should be more specific. The bass and mids have a bit less body compared to the Magni. When listening to the H10 standalone thin probably wouldn't come to mind as a description, but compared to the Magni it does. I guess that says something about the size of the differences. As said, these are not big. I guess bass & midrange warmth is important to me. 
 
Comparing the H10 and the Magni again tonight makes me realize the H10 has the upper hand in soundstage width. So I guess the Magni is better for me, but not better than the H10 in absolute terms. Some might prefer the wider soundstage of the H10 over the Magni's increased bass / warmth / authority.
 
If there are others also owning both the Magni and H10, it would be interesting if they could also do a side by side comparison. 
 
Quote:

  Are you using +6 gain settings for the HE-500 which you flip on the dip switches in the rear.

 
I tried +6 gain with the HD600. Didn't make a difference sound quality wise, only volume range. My He-500 cable isn't in yet, so cannot compare there yet

 

[auvgeek]

   
Maybe I should be more specific. The bass and mids have a bit less body compared to the Magni. When listening to the H10 standalone thin probably wouldn't come to mind as a description, but compared to the Magni it does. I guess that says something about the size of the differences. As said, these are not big. I guess bass & midrange warmth is important to me. 
 
Comparing the H10 and the Magni again tonight makes me realize the H10 has the upper hand in soundstage width. So I guess the Magni is better for me, but not better than the H10 in absolute terms. Some might prefer the wider soundstage of the H10 over the Magni's increased bass / warmth / authority.
 
If there are others also owning both the Magni and H10, it would be interesting if they could also do a side by side comparison. 

The bass is the main areas I wish the H10 were a bit better, too. BUT I really think you ought to be 100% sure your unit is fully burned-in. I noticed a substantial change in the bass long after I assumed the burn-in period was over. I would say the way you're describing the sound (thin) is exactly how it sounds before it's fully burned in.

 

[mylica]

   
I tried +6 gain with the HD600. Didn't make a difference sound quality wise, only volume range. My He-500 cable isn't in yet, so cannot compare there yet

 
This is my finding, which I guess will match your finding.  My other amp, has more mid and bass compare to H10 but it sounds the bass is not well control feel bloated at times hence giving warmer sounds feels.  on H10, the bass is well controlled, tight no more bloated bass hence feel less warmer sounding and the vocal feels one step behind which is good for me.  Using +6 for my HD600 and opamp 797 give the warm feeling back and better bass.  Vocal is thicker too.
 
Try change the opamp, it is cheap (less than 15 USD)
 
The difference using 0 gain and +6 gain is obvious in my case.  Not the volume change.
 
Btw, my music 75 percent is jazz, vocal.  I cant live with an amp that sounds thin.