[Liu Junyuan]

To add to this gain discussion, for whatever reason the K7XXs go from unlistenable to ideal when moving the gain from 0 to 6. I have no idea why, but this was change was more conspicuous than with any of my other headphones prior to acquiring the HD800. I should probably try it on the HD800 as well.

 

[MattTCG]

To add to this gain discussion, for whatever reason the K7XXs go from unlistenable to ideal when moving the gain from 0 to 6. I have no idea why, but this was change was more conspicuous than with any of my other headphones prior to acquiring the HD800. I should probably try it on the HD800 as well.

 
Wow...that's a pretty bold statement. 

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Wow...that's a pretty bold statement. 

Black and white. From flat to full, discordant to coherent. I went back and forth over and over again.

Would love to see if other K7XX owners echo my impression. This's was with Gungnir as a source btw, which I do not own anymore.

 

[DecentLevi]

(regarding connecting the Magni amp to the H10 amp via headphone-out to RCA cable)
 
Is that safe? I'll have to find another pair of RCA cables before I can try this. 

 
Yes, I'm sure it's safe to connect the Magni to the H10 via headphone-out to RCA. I have been doing the Mani to Capella amp for about a month now, and the Capella designer even told me it's safe as long as I don't set the volume to clipping levels. It's giving me a very detailed, full bodied sound with good soundstage like one amp times two should be 

. Here is a posting from another user about his similar pairing. It's with the Capella to H10 amp, but I think it has a similar output level as the Magni:
 
"Alright, I made it work and it does sound better. Connection is Capella 1/4 jack to H10 RCA. 
All relative but: bass is tighter and sub-bass is much stronger. Much more detail extraction, more organic sounding (especially vocals!), more dynamic, soundstage is holographic, much more expansive.
I set the volume on max on the H10 and the gain is on stock/default. Capella's gain is anywhere between 50% to 75% and the volume knob between 25% to 75% to avoid the H10 clipping, distorting or a schitty signal. This technically won't cause any problems from what I've found (explained in the next paragraph). The issues I was hearing in channel balance, intermittent signal loss are heard when the Capella's gain knob isn't higher than 25% or if the H10 isn't at max volume. When the Capella's gain is lower than 25%, the signal becomes a distorted mess because of the insufficient current to the H10.
 
I researched this a bit more and the output voltage of the source/preamp needs to be higher than the input sensitivity on the power amp, which is +6dBu (1.5V rms) on the Gustard H10, and the Capella's volume control and gain needs to be set at a level that won't clip the H10's signal due to more current than its input can take. If I ever need more gain (which is unlikely to say the least) I can just set the H10 at a higher setting. 
The Capella's output impedance is also ideal for a preamp at 1K ohm (from the line out) driving a 68K ohm input impedance on the H10. Using the headphone out though, it goes down to 0.5 ohms technically, so I figure this would be even better to drive the H10 (quote from source: As a general rule, the lower the output impedance is, the better it will drive difficult loads). 
summary source for all of this (I've also seen these concepts mentioned/explained in multiple other places): http://www.decware.com/paper55.htm "
 
You can get a decent 3.5mm to RCA cable from Monoprice on the cheap, or get a full audiophile grade cable from Audioquest Evergreen at not a bad price (the one I'm happily using).

 

[BassDigger]

I await Mark's findings, but it's starting to look like the H10's performance is very source dependant; it could sound very different, on different DACs, purely because of the differing specs of the dacs output section.
 
It seems that maybe, for many, the use of an in-line buffer (such as a tube buffer) would be beneficial. This is what, in essence, the daisy-chaining of equipment is mimicking.
 
Of course, the best solution is to make sure that you have a DAC with a suitable output stage. 

 

[Noodlz]

Just wanted to chime in~ I got my HE560's over the weekend and my HD800 today.
 
For the HD800s as far as gains go, i definitely prefer it at +6 instead of at 0. As @Liu Junyuan describes, it goes from a black & white, very dry-neutral ish sound on 0 gain, to a bright, slightly golden shimmering (think of golden flakes) that adds more weight and fluidity to the mids (making it a little more forward), and also brightening up / expanding the soundstage / frequency response overall. So far i am very very happy with the way it sounds. Though i still prefer my LCD2's and also the LCD3's that i heard recently to both of these when paired with the H10.
 
That bring me to thinking about the HE560s. I thought they sounded very very refined, it's very neutral, musical, fluid and all. It's overall a very very nice pair of cans, one of the best i have heard so far actually. However it's also very recoridng dependent. on some great recordings it can sound pretty holographic, whereas on others it can sound kinda "flat". The LCD 2.2 & LCD3's ive tried just seems to make everything i listen to "magical" (whereas the he-560 is only "magical" when the recording is good).
 
I'm debating on whether or not i should try to do the jerg 1.5 mods to the HE560s to get the sound that people on this thread have been raving about. Either that or i may just end up selling both the 560's and the HD800s, and using that to buy myself the LCD3s. Any one had experience comparing the 3's vs the modded HE560s vs HD800s on the H10?

 

[406382]

   
I'm not an expert, but maybe this points to a possible weakness, with the H10.
Or it may not necessarily be a 'weakness' of the H10, just an inability to compensate for a possible weakness in the source component.
 
 

 
Perhaps. The Modi is no world class source, but seems to do a pretty good job for the money. 
 

 
 
I'm talking about impedance matching; the H10 may be 'fussy' about the equipment that it's connected downstream of; it may have a less than 'world class' pre-section (not really a crime, for a bargain amp!).
 
It will be interesting to see what mark235 finds, when he can source the required cables.

 
 
We'll see how the 50 Ohm HE-500 does compared to the 300 Ohm HD600, and what the daisy chaining does.
 
 

  The bass is the main areas I wish the H10 were a bit better, too. BUT I really think you ought to be 100% sure your unit is fully burned-in. I noticed a substantial change in the bass long after I assumed the burn-in period was over. I would say the way you're describing the sound (thin) is exactly how it sounds before it's fully burned in.

 
True. I did an estimate on the burn-in time yesterday, and it should be somewhere between 40 and 60 hours. I'm going to continue burn-in for 72 more hours non-stop, and then try again. 
 
 

   
This is my finding, which I guess will match your finding.  My other amp, has more mid and bass compare to H10 but it sounds the bass is not well control feel bloated at times hence giving warmer sounds feels.  on H10, the bass is well controlled, tight no more bloated bass hence feel less warmer sounding and the vocal feels one step behind which is good for me.  Using +6 for my HD600 and opamp 797 give the warm feeling back and better bass.  Vocal is thicker too.
 
Try change the opamp, it is cheap (less than 15 USD)
 
The difference using 0 gain and +6 gain is obvious in my case.  Not the volume change.
 
Btw, my music 75 percent is jazz, vocal.  I cant live with an amp that sounds thin.

 
Good point. The bass on the Magni is indeed more "bloomy" compared to the H10, but I don't have the feeling that the Magni has less control. When I crank the volume up to 70 percent on the HD600 the driver excursion becomes quite noticeable but everything stays well in control. BTW, I don't recommend that listening level for more than 10 seconds, if at all.
 
Once the H10 is guaranteed of a full burn in, I'll look at the opamp change.
 
Do you turn down the volume pot a bit before testing out the +6 gain setting? If not, are you sure the extra volume isn't giving the impression of better SQ?

 

[BassDigger]

 
We'll see how the 50 Ohm HE-500 does compared to the 300 Ohm HD600, and what the daisy chaining does.

 
I'm referring to the impedance of the line level RCA (or balanced) input to the amp. The DAC, or whatever you have connected, must match well with the H10. That's what the daisy-chaining is (possibly) helping with.
The impedance of the headphones, attached to the hp output of the H10, is irrelevant, or at least a different matter entirely; by all accounts, the H10 matches (even) better with low impedance phones (such as the he500), But that's got nothing to do with whatever may be going on at the input end of the H10.
 
What others, such as Decentlevi, may be finding, is that another headphone output (feeding the H10 line-level RCA inputs), rather than a normal line-level (dac) output, is providing the more robust input signal that the H10 needs (you just have to be careful not to 'overdrive' it).
 
Enjoy experimenting with your new he500s, but remember that their impedance isn't related to the dacs (or daisy-chains) impedance.

 

[jazzwave]

   
Analog Devices and I'm quite sure other manufacturers ship up to two samples of certain op-amps for free. The AD797ANZ is one of them. The AD823ANZ on the other hand is not without cost.

 
How many AD797ANZ for H10?
I'm  planning to buy this item , any recomended eBay seller who sell AD797ANZ?
 
~ron~

 

[406382]

   
Yes, I'm sure it's safe to connect the Magni to the H10 via headphone-out to RCA. I have been doing the Mani to Capella amp for about a month now, and the Capella designer even told me it's safe as long as I don't set the volume to clipping levels. It's giving me a very detailed, full bodied sound with good soundstage like one amp times two should be 

. Here is a posting from another user about his similar pairing. It's with the Capella to H10 amp, but I think it has a similar output level as the Magni:
 
"Alright, I made it work and it does sound better. Connection is Capella 1/4 jack to H10 RCA. 
All relative but: bass is tighter and sub-bass is much stronger. Much more detail extraction, more organic sounding (especially vocals!), more dynamic, soundstage is holographic, much more expansive.
I set the volume on max on the H10 and the gain is on stock/default. Capella's gain is anywhere between 50% to 75% and the volume knob between 25% to 75% to avoid the H10 clipping, distorting or a schitty signal. This technically won't cause any problems from what I've found (explained in the next paragraph). The issues I was hearing in channel balance, intermittent signal loss are heard when the Capella's gain knob isn't higher than 25% or if the H10 isn't at max volume. When the Capella's gain is lower than 25%, the signal becomes a distorted mess because of the insufficient current to the H10.
 
I researched this a bit more and the output voltage of the source/preamp needs to be higher than the input sensitivity on the power amp, which is +6dBu (1.5V rms) on the Gustard H10, and the Capella's volume control and gain needs to be set at a level that won't clip the H10's signal due to more current than its input can take. If I ever need more gain (which is unlikely to say the least) I can just set the H10 at a higher setting. 
The Capella's output impedance is also ideal for a preamp at 1K ohm (from the line out) driving a 68K ohm input impedance on the H10. Using the headphone out though, it goes down to 0.5 ohms technically, so I figure this would be even better to drive the H10 (quote from source: As a general rule, the lower the output impedance is, the better it will drive difficult loads). 
summary source for all of this (I've also seen these concepts mentioned/explained in multiple other places): http://www.decware.com/paper55.htm "
 
You can get a decent 3.5mm to RCA cable from Monoprice on the cheap, or get a full audiophile grade cable from Audioquest Evergreen at not a bad price (the one I'm happily using).

 
Ok, thanks. I was going to ask whether the primary or secondary amp's volume needed to be maxed out or not, but that is now clear. 
 
I doubt Monoprice ships to Europe, but there's enough budget alternatives.

 

[406382]

   
I'm referring to the impedance of the line level RCA (or balanced) input to the amp. The DAC, or whatever you have connected, must match well with the H10. That's what the daisy-chaining is (possibly) helping with.
The impedance of the headphones, attached to the hp output of the H10, is irrelevant, or at least a different matter entirely; by all accounts, the H10 matches (even) better with low impedance phones (such as the he500), But that's got nothing to do with whatever may be going on at the input end of the H10.
 
What others, such as Decentlevi, may be finding, is that another headphone output (feeding the H10 line-level RCA inputs), rather than a normal line-level (dac) output, is providing the more robust input signal that the H10 needs (you just have to be careful not to 'overdrive' it).
 
Enjoy experimenting with your new he500s, but remember that their impedance isn't related to the dacs (or daisy-chains) impedance.

 
Thanks for explaining, I now understand your comment on the DAC matching better. 

 

[mylica]

   
How many AD797ANZ for H10?
I'm  planning to buy this item , any recomended eBay seller who sell AD797ANZ?
 
~ron~

You would need two.
 
Where are u from Jazz? 
 
I buy from http://www.rs-components.com/index.html
 
See if your country is part of the coverage

 

[moriez]

Originally Posted by jazzwave /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
How many AD797ANZ for H10?
I'm  planning to buy this item , any recomended eBay seller who sell AD797ANZ?
 
~ron~

 
Two is what I've read Ron. Haven't installed them yet so can't tell from own experience.
 

 
I buy from http://www.rs-components.com/index.html
 
See if your country is part of the coverage

 
But guys, why buy if you can get them for free and without a doubt authentic ones by directly contacting Analog Devices? Here's the page [click]. Just hit ''Sample'' and take it away. Or is your country excluded?

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I just wanted to follow up on my post yesterday evening to avoid confusing readers. The seemingly hyperbolic statement concerning gain only held true for me with the AKGs. The other headphones I tried were much less noticeably sensitive, although jumping to +12 sounded almost too aggressive, forward on the HD650 and HE-500. This conspicuous shift is probably because AKGs are extremely picky of upstream gear (like the HD800s), but unlike the HD800s, they thrive on current rather than voltage (which makes them an ideal pairing with the H10). 

 

[blasjw]

   
Two is what I've read Ron. Haven't installed them yet so can't tell from own experience.
 
 
But guys, why buy if you can get them for free and without a doubt authentic ones by directly contacting Analog Devices? Here's the page [click]. Just hit ''Sample'' and take it away. Or is your country excluded?

They require a business e-mail address.