[BassDigger]

   
...The LCD-2 also benefits from this amp and sounds absolutely its best with it (from my experience so far). But what I meant with "scale well" for the HE-400 was that the difference with this amp compared to the amps I used before is WAY bigger than with the LCD-2. Meaning the LCD-2 was already sounding very good at my other amps, while the HE-400 didn't. So the difference this amp made to the HE-400 was bigger. The LCD-2 sounds way better than the HE-400 but the H10 made a bigger difference in my mind to the HE-400. The LCD-2 already sounded breathtaking on my Gloveaudio A1 with a balanced Norne audio cable...
 
Cheers,
K

 
 
Hi Koolpep, it's interesting to read your thoughts about he400 and lcd2 'upscaling'. I'm currently using a Beyer A1 clone (I'm not sure if that's what your Gloveaudio A1 is), and I've found the difference between he400 and LCD2 to be vast, even though many say that the bass in particular is very similar between them. For me, on my system, the he400 just lacked bass body; it was all bass impact and texture, with no weight or substance. The lcd2f, on the other hand, is very nicely balanced.
 
After reading the first page of this thread (and previously considering a V or A200), I'd already decided that a H10 is the way to go; I'll get mine in a month or two.
 
I have no regrets about replacing the he400 with the lcd2, but maybe if I'd already got the H10 I may have kept the he400. It seems like the he400 is much harder to drive than the lcd2 (35ohms vs 75), and if my clone only has the 150mw that the real A1 has, it seems to go plenty loud, without distortion. So as I wrote in another thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/741024/he-400-bass-not-as-present-as-i-expected), I wasn't sure what the problem was: my amp or the he400.
 
I guess that my question is, how much, and what kind, of an improvement did the H10 make with these headphones?
 
Thanks.

 

[YtseJamer]

The H10 is available for $379 @ Massdrop : https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gustard-h10?s=gustard
 
With 9 more commits they will unlock the lowest price! ($299)

 

[fritobugger]

Thank you very much for the clarification.

 

[BassDigger]

  I'm actually very interested in everyone's input on their cable experiences. I value the opinion of people with Gustard gear in particular .
 
I'm another one that just recently got an aftermarket cable (an AWG20 copper cable from Forza Audioworks), and I also feel like they've changed how my headphones sound. I've actually been primarily listening to the LCD-2's with the cable, and I've been enjoying the experience very much with the H10 and X12.
 
The whole setup is exceptionally musical. Energetic, yet not fatiguing. Deep, textured bass. Engaging, emotional mids. Smooth across the frequency range, but detailed. All of these words apply to the H10 and/or X12 as well, though, so it's not necessarily the cable. But I feel like the cable might be bringing up the LCD-2's to a level closer to LCD-X's.
 
There's never been a blind test that showed that cables DO make a difference, but our brains and the way we perceive sensory input is extremely complex!

 
Like bavinck, I really don't want to start a 'cable war' on this thread. I'll just say that the cable manufacturers are generally at fault; they vastly overprice the products they sell!
 
Anyway, I too am interested to read about people's experiences with different cables, particularly the different kinds (copper, copper silver-plate, silver plus solid and stranded). It would help if people just stick to their actual impressions, rather than trying to explain why, or why not, a cable does, or doesn't, sound any different.
 
Personally, I've never tried a different hp cable, but I can see that the stock lcd2 cable is not a quality item. So I'm trying to get someone to put together a CAT 5 replacement for me; 3 runs worked great for my speakers, so a single run should be good for Hphones.

 

[Koolpep]

   
 
Hi Koolpep, it's interesting to read your thoughts about he400 and lcd2 'upscaling'. I'm currently using a Beyer A1 clone (I'm not sure if that's what your Gloveaudio A1 is), and I've found the difference between he400 and LCD2 to be vast, even though many say that the bass in particular is very similar between them. For me, on my system, the he400 just lacked bass body; it was all bass impact and texture, with no weight or substance. The lcd2f, on the other hand, is very nicely balanced.
 
After reading the first page of this thread (and previously considering a V or A200), I'd already decided that a H10 is the way to go; I'll get mine in a month or two.
 
I have no regrets about replacing the he400 with the lcd2, but maybe if I'd already got the H10 I may have kept the he400. It seems like the he400 is much harder to drive than the lcd2 (35ohms vs 75), and if my clone only has the 150mw that the real A1 has, it seems to go plenty loud, without distortion. So as I wrote in another thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/741024/he-400-bass-not-as-present-as-i-expected), I wasn't sure what the problem was: my amp or the he400.
 
I guess that my question is, how much, and what kind, of an improvement did the H10 make with these headphones?
 
Thanks.

 
The Gloveaudio is a portable DAC amp for the AK100 DAP it only shares the same name. The gloveaudio A1 delivers 440mW via balanced output and 180mW single ended into 32 Ohms. Not enough for the HE-400
 
The beyerdynamic A1(clone) cannot drive the HE-400 properly, it doesn't have the power. Its a great amp for the beyerdynamic headphones though as it can deliver adequate power into 250, 300 and 600 Ohms (for T90, T70, T1) but not so much in the lower Ohm ratings. The Ohm rating of the LCD-2 and HE-400 is not really the issue, the power at that Ohm ratings that the amp can deliver is.
 
The H10 delivers in spades. Audeze says the LCD-2 needs between 1-4 W to sound it's best. Plus the voltage swing (complex stuff) that is needed. 
 
The HE-400 is similar, I had exactly the same experience like you, I couldn't find the "amazing bass" it was very weak and dry....the more power the amp had I tried the better the HE-400 sounded. 
 
Once I tried it balanced on a Ragnarok and Mjolnir - woooowzers - there was suddenly all the bass. I knew what I was missing and what the HE-400 can deliver.
 
So the quest for the best bang for buck high power delivering amp ended with the H10 vs Lyr2 shootout.
 
H10 won (for me) and here we are. It's pretty amazing what this amp can do.
 
So in general I would say, if you have an amp that can deliver 1000-1500mW into 32 Ohms you already start to hear the potential of the HE-400 - if you go into the 2W area you are set. above that is only icing on the cake.
 

Ohm/Power	Asgard2	Valhalla2	H10
50	1000mW	180mW	2700mW
300	380mW	800mW	(no info, 1000mW?)
600	190mW	450mW	570mW

 
This table is to show how some amps behave: Valhalla is made for Beyerdynamic T90/T1, HD650, HD600, HD800, sweet spot around the 300 Ohm range. H10 and Lyr 2 are made for Planars, they have plenty of power down low at 16-32 Ohm and then loose power the higher you get.
 
Lyr2:
50 Ohm - 4000mW
300 Ohm - 660mW
600 Ohm - 330mW
 
I hope that helps. Power in mW is not everything, the voltage swing is also important - but as a rule of thumb, the more mW the amp can deliver the better for some planar magnetic headphones. As an example where this wasn't true is the HE-560 it didn't really improve much with more power...so it always depends on the headphone.
 
Cheers,
K

 

[Schopenhauer]

And now the H10 is back on Massdrop!

 

[Koolpep]

   
Like bavinck, I really don't want to start a 'cable war' on this thread. I'll just say that the cable manufacturers are generally at fault; they vastly overprice the products they sell!
 
Anyway, I too am interested to read about people's experiences with different cables, particularly the different kinds (copper, copper silver-plate, silver plus solid and stranded). It would help if people just stick to their actual impressions, rather than trying to explain why, or why not, a cable does, or doesn't, sound any different.
 
Personally, I've never tried a different hp cable, but I can see that the stock lcd2 cable is not a quality item. So I'm trying to get someone to put together a CAT 5 replacement for me; 3 runs worked great for my speakers, so a single run should be good for Hphones.

I bought my LCD-2f used and got 2 cables "free" with it. One is a Q-Audio French Silk cable and the other one is a Norne Audio balanced cable. There is a difference in sound and certainly in comfort. I don't use the stock cable anymore. 
 
Here is a review of the cable for the LCD-2:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/q-cables/reviews/5488
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ByfzP9B22Q
 
Cheers,
K

 

[Koolpep]

  And now the H10 is back on Massdrop!

+1 and for such a great price. It's worth every penny - twice.

 

[JoeDoe]

 
+1 and for such a great price. It's worth every penny - twice.

Agreed!

 

[Schopenhauer]

 

 
+1 and for such a great price. It's worth every penny - twice.

Agreed!

Joe, I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying the H10! Have you thought about giving it a review?

 

[bavinck]

I can say, for anyone reading this considering the H10, that now on day 5 of my H10 (>100 hrs burn in) it sounds absolutely amazing. Huge soundstage, detailed, non-fatiguing, and deep and textured bass. It is a wonderful amp!

 

[JoeDoe]

  I can say, for anyone reading this considering the H10, that now on day 5 of my H10 (>100 hrs burn in) it sounds absolutely amazing. Huge soundstage, detailed, non-fatiguing, and deep and textured bass. It is a wonderful amp!

I totally agree! I'm on day 6 and this thing is flexing all kind of muscle!

 

[BassDigger]

   
The Gloveaudio is a portable DAC amp for the AK100 DAP it only shares the same name. The gloveaudio A1 delivers 440mW via balanced output and 180mW single ended into 32 Ohms. Not enough for the HE-400
 
The beyerdynamic A1(clone) cannot drive the HE-400 properly, it doesn't have the power. Its a great amp for the beyerdynamic headphones though as it can deliver adequate power into 250, 300 and 600 Ohms (for T90, T70, T1) but not so much in the lower Ohm ratings. The Ohm rating of the LCD-2 and HE-400 is not really the issue, the power at that Ohm ratings that the amp can deliver is.
 
The H10 delivers in spades. Audeze says the LCD-2 needs between 1-4 W to sound it's best. Plus the voltage swing (complex stuff) that is needed. 
 
The HE-400 is similar, I had exactly the same experience like you, I couldn't find the "amazing bass" it was very weak and dry....the more power the amp had I tried the better the HE-400 sounded. 
 
Once I tried it balanced on a Ragnarok and Mjolnir - woooowzers - there was suddenly all the bass. I knew what I was missing and what the HE-400 can deliver.
 
So the quest for the best bang for buck high power delivering amp ended with the H10 vs Lyr2 shootout.
 
H10 won (for me) and here we are. It's pretty amazing what this amp can do.
 
So in general I would say, if you have an amp that can deliver 1000-1500mW into 32 Ohms you already start to hear the potential of the HE-400 - if you go into the 2W area you are set. above that is only icing on the cake.
 

Ohm/Power	Asgard2	Valhalla2	H10
50	1000mW	180mW	2700mW
300	380mW	800mW	(no info, 1000mW?)
600	190mW	450mW	570mW

 
This table is to show how some amps behave: Valhalla is made for Beyerdynamic T90/T1, HD650, HD600, HD800, sweet spot around the 300 Ohm range. H10 and Lyr 2 are made for Planars, they have plenty of power down low at 16-32 Ohm and then loose power the higher you get.
 
Lyr2:
50 Ohm - 4000mW
300 Ohm - 660mW
600 Ohm - 330mW
 
I hope that helps. Power in mW is not everything, the voltage swing is also important - but as a rule of thumb, the more mW the amp can deliver the better for some planar magnetic headphones. As an example where this wasn't true is the HE-560 it didn't really improve much with more power...so it always depends on the headphone.
 
Cheers,
K

 
This is the kind of feedback that would have helped me on the other thread (where were you? ) Most, not all, there gave the impression that amping doesn't make much difference! (I think that some of them mistook me for a basshead, rather than a bassdigger)
What foxed me was that those planar phones didn't exhibit any of the tendencies that I'm used to e.g. when loudspeakers are driven by an under-powered amp. They went more than plenty loud; didn't distort until the amp was turned up past 3 o'clock (normal level 11-12 o'clock); and didn't seem to lose impact as the volume was increased (a tell-tale sign that an amp is running out of current); they sounded the same at the 1 o'clock position as they did at the 9 o'clock (the volume control starts at 7 o'clock); just louder! This suggests to me that planar drivers are quite different beasts to conventional dynamic transducers.
 
Anyhow, the he400 is history for me now, but I do look forward to hearing what kind of difference the h10 will make with the lcd2f. I've just got a CAT5 cable (and the phones themselves; only about 20 hrs, so far) to burn in first. Happy times ahead!!!

 

[Lohb]

 I've just got a CAT5 cable (and the phones themselves; only about 20 hrs, so far) to burn in first. Happy times ahead!!!

Do you have a link to the CAT5 cable ? I've seen this mentioned before as a great entry-level cable....(?)

 

[BassDigger]

  Do you have a link to the CAT5 cable ? I've seen this mentioned before as a great entry-level cable....(?)

 
It's 'category 5' computer networking cable. It's a (small, but beyond my means) diy project to make these.
 
You can buy something similar, ready-made. But it'll probably have some fancy looking outer jacket, a brand name and will cost much, MUCH more money!
 
I'm still waiting for my cable to arrive. But if it's ok, the guy who made it may be interested in making more; he sells other cables, on ebay; that's how I found him. (Strangely, he hadn't heard of cat 5 diy audio cables. I think he's more of a businessman than a hobbyist.) I'll keep you posted.
 
BTW, maybe we ought to start another (cable) thread. One with some very strict anti-rant and anti-antagony rules, and see how long it would last.
 
(Still dreaming of my (future) H10!)