GUSTARD DAC-R26 Balanced Decoder R2R+1Bit Dual Native Decoding Music Bridge

[Jake2]

With the new update to HQ Player there is a big improvement in the efficiency of the processing so I can now use much higher quality settings up to ASDM7EC-super at 48x256 and can use any filter with DAC correction enabled, all the way to even include sinc-long (with a few skips). So, now I feel I can hear the Holo Cyan2 close to the best that it can be. And am comparing it to the Gustard R26 at 23/768 with sinc-long.
Both DACs are very revealing of fine detail and reverberant decay and can trace the sound of a triangle or studio reverb fading all the way out to a dead silent and black background.
The Cyan2 on the (seemingly according to consensus) preferable DSD source is fuller and thicker in body. slightly more syrupy and easy but still detailed. which, I think might be more a tendency of the DSD modulation of the original PCM file than the DAC but this is the favored setting and the Cyan is stated to offer the best SINAD measurements when decoding DSD.
The Gustard R26 doesn't have the hype right now but with a fairly good LAN implementation and cheap external clock, I can say that I like it better. It is more explosive and exciting by comparison. Wider, deeper and more layered with more black space between the instruments. HQ Player experts (who don't have an R26) tell me that it should measure highly distorted at these settings and be vastly inferior to the Cyan but I hear no trace of audible distortion in sibilant vocal sounds or guitars etc. And do all in all, prefer it to the Cyan2 for the dynamic rock that I listen to.
So after several more hours agonizing over AB listening tests, I have decided to sell the Cyan and stick with the R26 for now. Until something better like an R30 or used Holo May comes along.

That’s great news on the latest HQP revision. That 7EC-Super modulator is very good indeed.

Hey just for kicks, as I appreciate you prefer PCM on the R26, might I suggest you try those DSD settings with the R26 so you’re comparing apples to apples. If the R26 DSD background hiss on 44.1KHz rate family music bothers you you can force it to 48Khz where it doesn’t occur (though from memory native rate family sounds better, hiss or no).

 

[Jake2]

I would add that for dynamic rock music you might find shorter or more moderate filters like Sinc-Mx or gauss-long give you more transient impact whether on DSD or PCM. Also the demanding ASDM7EC-v3 modulator is even more punchy and resolving than the 7EC-Super which may suit some genres more. Disregard if you’ve tried all this already.

 

[DaJustin]

Does anyone know if there is a DDC that has a Toslink in?

 

[Jake2]

Does anyone know if there is a DDC that has a Toslink in?

Denafrips DDCs do, some models anyway. Audio-Gd have only coax s/pdif in, alongside USB.. There’s also the ifi s/pdif purifier2 regenerator/reclocker which can convert to coax out.. I use one with my TV, big improvement especially with an Ifi power X power supply.

 

[DaJustin]

I have an NVIDIA shield that goes HDMI to TV, then TV to DAC with Toslink. Is there a recommended device for this setup?

The shield outputs video so I worry about putting something in between the shield and the TV.

 

[Jake2]

I have an NVIDIA shield that goes HDMI to TV, then TV to DAC with Toslink. Is there a recommended device for this setup?

The shield outputs video so I worry about putting something in between the shield and the TV.

The ifi I mentioned is purpose built for pretty much this exact use case, to clean up and reclock the jittery mess that is your average tv’s toslink out. Their various purifier etc model names are confusingly similar, need to select the right model. I see the OP here reached the same conclusion re a better power supply.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/experience-with-ifi-spdif-ipurifier2

 

[sendler2112]

I would add that for dynamic rock music you might find shorter or more moderate filters like Sinc-Mx or gauss-long give you more transient impact whether on DSD or PCM. Also the demanding ASDM7EC-v3 modulator is even more punchy and resolving than the 7EC-Super which may suit some genres more. Disregard if you’ve tried all this already.

There are so many combinations to try and I haven't spent that much time with SDM since it is just within the processing capabilities with the new efficiency improvement. But with 7-super and even using the ultra transparent sinc-long for the Cyan2, I prefer the R26. I have some suggestions for different settings on the Cyan thread so I do appreciate the advice and will try all of these suggestions.

 

[Rockitman]

I'm here because I own a Gustard R26, enjoy music and wish to hear about other owner's experiences,
in a forum free from patronizing condescension and disparaging slap downs.
Not everyone is constrained by rigid objectivity and measurements.
As for the money, I spend it all on hifi, fishing gear and good tequila. The rest I waste.

 

[sendler2112]

The cable that I recommended for people to try that started this whole mess costs $10.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NVS8BF5?th=1

I like the way it sounds better than the cable that I had been using that costs $15.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-8-foot-cat-6-ethernet-cable-gray/6234048.p?skuId=6234048

Anyone that cannot or will not hear the difference between various DACs, cables, fill-in-the-blank, will find their audiophile path much simpler.

For others that wish to engage in the fun and rewarding aspect of this hobby by trying different things to hear which component they think sounds better can end up building a more revealing system and train themselves to listen more closely.

 

[BShaw]

I don’t disagree at all Lars. In my experience this forum is probably the most respectful and friendly I’ve ever seen in the audio world, and I guess speaking for myself, in keeping with that, if we disagree or have a different perspective AND are new to the scene, it would be a lot more productive to come in with a little bit of graciousness.
I apologize for my part in disturbing the waters the other day. Let me just say that I don’t believe most are completely “subjective” or “objective”, and making a religion out of one or the other is laughable and leads to unnecessary division and rancor.
Speaking for myself, I measure the crap out of everything I have the means to, which might not be lab level but I really want to know as much as I can about what’s happening objectively. I’m reading Floyd Toole’s Sound Reproduction yet again, hoping to understand more of what he says in his objective masterpiece. However, I also think we have incredible God-given capacity to sense and feel, and even if it gets a little silly at times we needn’t ridicule each other over whatever impressions we’re experiencing.
I appreciate the edges of the discussion being respectfully challenged. It’s the respect for each other that means a lot, and this has been a reassuring oasis in my world and I’d really like it to remain so without the need for censorship.
Off my soapbox now to go polish one of my plugs and marvel at how holographic the results are.

 

[LarsHP]

To the general idea, when we hear a difference, even "obvious" ones:

About 10 years ago, when jitter was an undisputed, real issue in digital audio, I bought a hardware upgrade for my Squeezebox Touch, which included new and better spec'd clocks and whatnot, costing about $300. I sent my Touch away for this procedure, but kept my second, unmodified Touch. When I got the modified Touch back, I played various test tracks, and immediately heard a clear and obvious improvement, particularly in the treble. This should be no surprise, given the better clocks etc. and the known audible difference jitter can introduce. However, just for fun, I plugged my unmodified Touch in next to the modified Touch and shifted between them to the same DAC (Audio-gd Ref 7.1), making it easy to hear any difference. In short, there was no audible difference, and this test was done with electrostatic speakers (see my profile for details), that should be resolving such a difference clearly.

It is for the above reason, that I sometimes question some claimed, heard differences, particularly when there was no way to compare what is heard to the same setup without a certain modification / change.

For the record:
I have invested in a fiber LAN conversion setup with linear PSU, based on several reports that the elimination of electrical noise through LAN into the DAC is audible. So far, I have relied on other's reports in this thread. I haven't done a side-by-side test, but I might try it and see if I hear a difference myself. If and when I do that, I will report back here, unless I get more posts unjustifiably deleted.

--- EDIT: Price of the referred upgrade corrected.

 

[sendler2112]

To the general idea, when we hear a difference, even "obvious" ones:

When I got the modified Touch back, I played various test tracks, and immediately heard a clear and obvious improvement, particularly in the treble. This should be no surprise, given the better clocks etc. and the known audible difference jitter can introduce. However, just for fun, I plugged my unmodified Touch in next to the modified Touch and shifted between them to the same DAC (Audio-gd Ref 7.1), making it easy to hear any difference. In short, there was no audible difference,

Your first listening test was a very difficult A/ A' comparison that was far apart in time. Your second test was a proper sighted A/B comparison which allowed you a proper result. The latter takes a great deal of time. patience, and concentration. Comparing the cables that I mentioned, I didn't really care about the outcome that much. It is a $10 network cable. But it still cost me something like 45 minutes.

Comparing the Cyan2 to the R26 to decide which one to keep starts to have real money on the line so I probably had 2 hours into that. ...This time. ...Waffling between the two the same way 4-5 times over the last few months. Listening to the same 30 second, level matched sections, of the same 5 audio recordings over, and over, and over again. Switching quickly between them and taking notes occasionally. One falls into a Zen state which cannot be as sensitive in a group blind A/B/X with all of the other distractions going on and with the listener not in control of the playback or having to use unfamiliar recordings.

 

[LarsHP]

Your first listening test was a very difficult A/ A' comparison that was far apart in time.

No, it wasn't far apart in time, since I had the unmodified Touch all the time.

I am of course not questioning your comparisons between the R26 and Cyan 2. I feel confident that you may be able to tell the difference between two DACs that you listen to side-by-side, and I was happy to read your findings, and certainly when you put so much time into it. If I am not mistaken, I clicked "like" on that post.

And - for the record - I have previously tested various analog interconnect cables myself, having them on loan from the local hi-fi shop, and found the difference in sound to vary from subtle at best to quite obvious (the latter being cables made with carbon fiber conductors versus copper).

In the first of my two deleted posts, my last paragraph was saying that when we are talking about LAN, a possible sonic difference could be caused by noise getting into the DAC, which is what the fiber media converter etc. is supposed to fix. When we talk about LAN, we aren't talking about (streaming of) digital sound, but sending data packages. It's important to understand and acknowledge the difference.

 

[sendler2112]

when we are talking about LAN, a possible sonic difference could be caused by noise getting into the DAC, which is what the fiber media converter etc. is supposed to fix. When we talk about LAN, we aren't talking about (streaming of) digital sound, but sending data packages. It's important to understand and acknowledge the difference.

And just for the record, one of the cables is a Cat8 and the other is Cat6 so right off the bat there are documented differences in measurements and specs.

 

[Currawong]

That’s great news on the latest HQP revision. That 7EC-Super modulator is very good indeed.

Hey just for kicks, as I appreciate you prefer PCM on the R26, might I suggest you try those DSD settings with the R26 so you’re comparing apples to apples. If the R26 DSD background hiss on 44.1KHz rate family music bothers you you can force it to 48Khz where it doesn’t occur (though from memory native rate family sounds better, hiss or no).

The hiss is rather ridiculous IMO. I wonder if Gustard can fix that with a firmware update, as it pushes me back to using PCM up-sampling instead.

I find the straight sync profiles (including guass-xl) to sound like things are over-sharpened and a bit weird. ext2 and gauss-ip are my preferences with R2R/DSD DACs.

The upgrade, since someone mentioned it, would probably be an Audio-gd DAC + external streamer. They have a better DSD set-up, though the R-27HE I have here doesn't do 48x rates, which may or may not have been fixed with a firmware update.