[rockcity007]

Hi all, I was looking for a little technical help if I might? I've been up to alligators trying to beat the weather with regards to a major remodel. I haven't listened to music for months, but I though today, being a Friday and afterwork, I'd play some tunes for a couple of hours before my wife got home from work...NOT!

In a nutshell the R26 is not reading the LAN connection. The lights aren't on network switch or the back of the R26, so of course ROON isn't recognizing the R26 as an audio device.

Things I have tried:

1. Bypassing the FMCs
2. A different ethernet cable
3. Different outlets on the switch & router

The R26 will work through the USB connection playing music directly from my ROON Nucleus as a music server but not through the LAN connection.

The DAC is getting close to a year old and probably doesn't even have 100 hours on it. I have updated the firmware as well.

Any help with this would GREATLY be appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[sajunky]

The lights aren't on network switch or the back of the R26,

No lights, link is dead. Hardware fault, I am sorry, it happens, no solution. It must be still on the warranty (<1 year old).

 

[Currawong]

Actually yes we can know. It’s the clear science on RFI/EMI not being able to travel over fiber optic. It’s clear as well that optic toslink produces mountains of jitter as well as caps resolution at 96khz on audio signals. No matter the country you’re in.

I think you’re mistaken here as well. LAN has been qualified as the best sounding input by many many many people on here over the past 500 pages. Only made better by the addition of a $150 foundational network “tweek”of adding FMCs.
Can’t knock it till you try it.
Glad optical is working out for you now.

I2S from an SU-1 was clearly the best for me, beating out optically isolated LAN.
Even if Toslink produces jitter, the DAC, if it's designed well, should be able to deal with it sufficiently that there isn't any SQ loss. It's not like old-school DACs that couldn't deal with jitter at all.

One of the reasons I’m reluctant to venture down the FMC rabbit hole is various comments made on other forums w,r.t their use.

for example here’s just a selection of hundreds of similar from the Audiogon forum:

”The fibre optic media converters lowered the noise floor but also thinned out the presentation and imparted this slight dryness in the midrange. In a long run I couldn’t live with it. So I gave the Network Acoustics Eno a try and am really enjoying it. As @lalitk pointed out, smooth and natural presentation.”

”my current combination of Eno + Innuos Zenith is more natural sounding as @lalitk mentioned in his post. I don't think optical is best by default -- like most things it depends on the rest of your system and preferences.”

”My experience has been both up and down with ethernet and optical,…”

”also found good ethernet cables (in/out of a ethetregen) better than using optical…”

“I’ve tried the Ethernet to fiber then back again, didn’t do anything toward sq.
I also tried all the tweaks/gimmicks for usb and that was also a bust.
Keep it simple,”

”I found LAN cables to render fuller sound that is closer to analog than the digital sheen experienced with fiber optical kit.”

etc.etc


Now half of the above make no sense to me, I can understand how some noise might be removed from the system with the filtering but ‘thinning out the midrange” or a ‘fuller’ sound just can’t really be true can it?!

Either way these guys are unconvinced on benefits of FMC…obviously on here a number of people seem to think it’s a useful improvement…but as I mentioned previously these things are subjective, there is no one truth.

Were all those comments about their experiences with the R26 specifically? I'm guessing not.
All this stuff is VERY DAC-specific.

Well possibly a small amount of electrical noise. But given a £40 cheapo device can easily decipher a 1GHz ethernet signal over 100m then are you implying that our £1600 DAC is so poorly designed that a minute amount of electrical noise makes it fall apart. No I didn’t think so.

Have you actually seen tests where huge noise has been induced on DAC inputs to see the effect of output (ASR have done a couple for example)….result on output on a £200 DAC - Ziltch…

With test tones or music? I was skeptical too, but we don't know who by or how the LAN set-up in the R26 was designed. For a start....

The lights aren't on network switch or the back of the R26

....the lights for the LAN socket aren't connected at all. Once you've switched it to LAN, it has to boot up the streaming OS, which takes about a minute.

 

[rockcity007]

No lights, link is dead. Hardware fault, I am sorry, it happens, no solution. It must be still on the warranty (<1 year old).

I think you're probably right, thank you

 

[rockcity007]

I2S from an SU-1 was clearly the best for me, beating out optically isolated LAN.
Even if Toslink produces jitter, the DAC, if it's designed well, should be able to deal with it sufficiently that there isn't any SQ loss. It's not like old-school DACs that couldn't deal with jitter at all.

Were all those comments about their experiences with the R26 specifically? I'm guessing not.
All this stuff is VERY DAC-specific.

With test tones or music? I was skeptical too, but we don't know who by or how the LAN set-up in the R26 was designed. For a start....

....the lights for the LAN socket aren't connected at all. Once you've switched it to LAN, it has to boot up the streaming OS, which takes about a minute

I2S from an SU-1 was clearly the best for me, beating out optically isolated LAN.
Even if Toslink produces jitter, the DAC, if it's designed well, should be able to deal with it sufficiently that there isn't any SQ loss. It's not like old-school DACs that couldn't deal with jitter at all.

Were all those comments about their experiences with the R26 specifically? I'm guessing not.
All this stuff is VERY DAC-specific.

With test tones or music? I was skeptical too, but we don't know who by or how the LAN set-up in the R26 was designed. For a start....

....the lights for the LAN socket aren't connected at all. Once you've switched it to LAN, it has to boot up the streaming OS, which takes about a minute.

nothing after a minute, even longer. It's like a dead circuit..

 

[Currawong]

nothing after a minute, even longer. It's like a dead circuit..

You could try re-flashing the firmware for it. The USB-C port on the back accesses the in-build micro-SD card in the same manner as a USB disk drive, so even if the LAN OS is dead, it should be recoverable with the info in the first post.

 

[rockcity007]

You could try re-flashing the firmware for it. The USB-C port on the back accesses the in-build micro-SD card in the same manner as a USB disk drive, so even if the LAN OS is dead, it should be recoverable with the info in the first post.

OK, this sounds like a great idea! but I'm slightly challenged in the tech department. Could I trouble you for more detailed instructions on how to "re-flash" the firmware?

 

[BShaw]

OK, this sounds like a great idea! but I'm slightly challenged in the tech department. Could I trouble you for more detailed instructions on how to "re-flash" the firmware?

It's a bit of a voodoo venture, but there's a very good tutorial in the sticky on the first page of this thread. It's lamentable that Gustard hasn't provided a better upgrade pathway, and in my conversations with them they don't seem to care much, but it's definitely achievable if you follow the instructions in the sticky. Godspeed to you Rock, let us know how it went!

 

[rodthebod]

One of the reasons I’m reluctant to venture down the FMC rabbit hole is various comments made on other forums w,r.t their use.

for example here’s just a selection of hundreds of similar from the Audiogon forum:

”The fibre optic media converters lowered the noise floor but also thinned out the presentation and imparted this slight dryness in the midrange. In a long run I couldn’t live with it. So I gave the Network Acoustics Eno a try and am really enjoying it. As @lalitk pointed out, smooth and natural presentation.”

”my current combination of Eno + Innuos Zenith is more natural sounding as @lalitk mentioned in his post. I don't think optical is best by default -- like most things it depends on the rest of your system and preferences.”

”My experience has been both up and down with ethernet and optical,…”

”also found good ethernet cables (in/out of a ethetregen) better than using optical…”

“I’ve tried the Ethernet to fiber then back again, didn’t do anything toward sq.
I also tried all the tweaks/gimmicks for usb and that was also a bust.
Keep it simple,”

”I found LAN cables to render fuller sound that is closer to analog than the digital sheen experienced with fiber optical kit.”

etc.etc


Now half of the above make no sense to me, I can understand how some noise might be removed from the system with the filtering but ‘thinning out the midrange” or a ‘fuller’ sound just can’t really be true can it?!

Either way these guys are unconvinced on benefits of FMC…obviously on here a number of people seem to think it’s a useful improvement…but as I mentioned previously these things are subjective, there is no one truth.

If you are in such a quandary then why not mitigate the risk by using one of the cheaper FMC's on offer (see my earlier posts)

Jake has recently tried the exact same cheaper model that I use and swears by it, and at only around €30 from AliExp including the optical cable it's worth a punt. You will need a decent LPS or battery bank PSU at 5-12v on the clean side. I've used a 5v battery bank and it lasts weeks. Sound is improved in every respect IMHO.

 

[dacwizard]

Hi all, I was looking for a little technical help if I might? I've been up to alligators trying to beat the weather with regards to a major remodel. I haven't listened to music for months, but I though today, being a Friday and afterwork, I'd play some tunes for a couple of hours before my wife got home from work...NOT!

In a nutshell the R26 is not reading the LAN connection. The lights aren't on network switch or the back of the R26, so of course ROON isn't recognizing the R26 as an audio device.

Things I have tried:

1. Bypassing the FMCs
2. A different ethernet cable
3. Different outlets on the switch & router

The R26 will work through the USB connection playing music directly from my ROON Nucleus as a music server but not through the LAN connection.

The DAC is getting close to a year old and probably doesn't even have 100 hours on it. I have updated the firmware as well.

Any help with this would GREATLY be appreciated!

Thank you!

I had a similar issue when I connected my r26 to the network for the first time last week, r26 not showing on the network, initially I didn’t have the LAN input selected on the r26 (I don’t know for certain whether or not that is required but it would make sense for the r26 to power down the streamer if LAN was not selected), this still didn’t solve the issue. Ultimately rebooting the router solved it for me, try that if you haven’t already.

 

[dacwizard]

Were all those comments about their experiences with the R26 specifically? I'm guessing not.
All this stuff is VERY DAC-specific.

No, but the point is that there is always further to dig in the rabbit hole of this type of tweaking. If you have an issue with your sound I can understand it. For me, im more than happy with my sound, so the investment in time/money is not worth it.

If you are in such a quandary then

I'm not really in a quandary to be honest. I’m more than happy with my toslink where I know zero electrical noise is getting the the r26 via the input.

Even if Toslink produces jitter, the DAC, if it's designed well, should be able to deal with it sufficiently that there isn't any SQ loss. It's not like old-school DACs that couldn't deal with jitter at all

Exactly. ASR has measured hundreds of DACs and the extra jitter present via the toslink is negligible compared to other inputs. Especially with a DAC like the R26 where you aren’t chasing the ultimate in measured performance, the noise floor engulfs any microscopic jitter variations.

 

[Forgisound]

When I bought the R26, I immediately used the warm sounding power cord. Everything was fine.

A few days ago I put together a Nordost Valhalla, then a DIY silver cable. I got very audible distortions in the mid/high range. Especially with the more dynamic parts of the symphony orchestra.

Distortion does not occur when these very open cables are on the preamplifier or amplifier. Only when I connect R26 like that.

For the R26, a power cable that sounds very warm and not too dynamic is optimal.

That's my experience.

 

[sajunky]

Exactly. ASR has measured hundreds of DACs and the extra jitter present via the toslink is negligible compared to other inputs

ASR has rejected couple good sounding DACs based on a poor measurements, but a source of noise (which was even shown on the FFT plot and noticed) was not dealt with. An example in high-end department is a Total DAC Six test. Amir with his horde made a mockery from a brand. Further discussion revealed that Amir was using 50Hz 220V power regenerator for dealing with incompatible power input and did not understand issues of ground loops. FFT plot did show traces of two power supplies 50Hz and 60Hz. During discussion Amir claimed that a DAC was as source of the noise, while it was evident that if true, it could be only a single frequency (with its harmonics). I was even temporary banned to stop further embarrassment.

A fact is that in all tests where a power generator was used, DUT shown poor performance, with ASR blaming a device under test. In cases where 50Hz/220V power generator was not used, there is no clear evidence that Amir did not deal properly with ground loops, but based on the above cases there is no confidence that tests were done properly.

This comment I had to make, for the argument you brought in. A wired interface may be even jitter free (I mean - completely free), but if noise is not dealt properly, then toshlink (which ads jitter inherently) will shine. I must say it is only an indication that system is not protected from a noise.

 

[rockcity007]

Thanks @sajunky, @Currawong, @BShaw and @dacwizard for your help and suggestions. I have since communicated with the dealer and he said that if I was sure it was the device itself that was faulty, I could send it back for repairs. No music for a few more weeks or more I guess, but less frustration than me trying to figure it out myself.
Have a great weekend all!

 

[sbgk]

don't understand the fuse requirment, power consumption is <30 W which means 0.125 amps at 240 V.
The fuse specified is a slow blow 3.15 A which is 25 x the normal current.
The fuse is a slow blow one which means it could take more than 3.15A for a short period, so anything delicate will be fried before the fuse blows.
Why isn't the fuse specified as the 630mA one ?
Understand the toroids can draw a higher current on start up, each one is 50 VA at 115V, so 100 VA at 240V is 0.41 A, still well below the 3.15 A fuse specified.
The secondary winding is 15V at 1.67 A, so at the fuse rating there is 240V*3.15A = 756 W which equates to 756W/15V = 50A, surely everything will be dead at 50 A.