[Dandoudou]

On the topic of the DI20... interesting to hear your R26 is 'stuck' on PCM. It's xactly what I would have expected given the DI20 sending no signal on I2S pin 15. But it's the opposite of what @comzee found with his DI20 and what @JackJohnson316 found when modding an I2S cable and tested with pin 15 disconnected - for both their R26's were stuck on DSD. Go figure

Yes, it's curious indeed. I tried with two HDMI cables.
The first one is this cable by Gustard that I was using with Pegasus:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/cabl...-20-i2s-cuivre-ofc-plaque-or-15m-p-15667.html

The second one is a customized HDMI cable that I ordered from Queenway on AliExpress. They told me that they can make a cable for the DI-20 and the R26 that will play both PCM and DSD. But their cable plays only PCM as well. And by the way, though it is 99% silver, their cable does not sound as good as the cheaper cable by Gustard.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/4000255873784.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=FR

With both cables, Roon does not see the DAC as DSD capable. If I play a DSD track, Roon automatically converts it to PCM.
Audirvana Origin and JRiver do understand that it is a DSD capable DAC, but when I play with them DSD tracks, I get a noise. It's clear that the R26 "thinks" that it receives a PCM sound.

 

[camrector]

Yes, it's curious indeed. I tried with two HDMI cables.
The first one is this cable by Gustard that I was using with Pegasus:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/fr/cabl...-20-i2s-cuivre-ofc-plaque-or-15m-p-15667.html

The second one is a customized HDMI cable that I ordered from Queenway on AliExpress. They told me that they can make a cable for the DI-20 and the R26 that will play both PCM and DSD. But their cable plays only PCM as well. And by the way, though it is 99% silver, their cable does not sound as good as the cheaper cable by Gustard.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/4000255873784.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=FR

With both cables, Roon does not see the DAC as DSD capable. If I play a DSD track, Roon automatically converts it to PCM.
Audirvana Origin and JRiver do understand that it is a DSD capable DAC, but when I play with them DSD tracks, I get a noise. It's clear that the R26 "thinks" that it receives a PCM sound.

Quick question about your etherRegen. Can you use the Sfp port for your Ethernet “in”, then connect other network devices to LAN inputs, then connect the “b” side LAN input to the R26?

 

[Dandoudou]

Quick question about your etherRegen. Can you use the Sfp port for your Ethernet “in”, then connect other network devices to LAN inputs, then connect the “b” side LAN input to the R26?

I'm using a SFP module to connect the EtherREGEN to the LAN. I can also use the RJ45 connectors of "A" side to connect other devices, but I don't do it, because I prefer placing all the devices before the fiber in order to eliminate their noise. (And I have a few: a Mac, a PC, a RBi4, and a NUC.)
I'm using the RJ45 connector of the "B" side to connect the EtherREGEN to the R26.

 

[Odezra]

Hey guys - random question here connected with the Gustard.

Is there a way to use a meter of any sort to test what output volumes (or maybe voltages) the Gustard emits when different settings are used (e.g. the external clock)?

i have a/b tested the clock again today and I noticed a difference for the first time. A perceived step up in clarity. This was with Roon upsampling to 512 and with the clock in the system now about 10 days (Hadn't A/B tested since day 1). However, when I tested this track , I could of sworn the track was louder. if you listen to the strings as they come in over the first minute, they appear louder with the clock on vs off. It would be helpful if someone could confirm / deny this loudness difference on their rig?

My understanding is that humans are highly influenced by volume, with a decibel sensitivity of 0.2db IIRC (someone correct me here if i am wrong on that) where louder devices (particularly in bass regions) often trump preference tests. So I am wondering whether these clock differences we are hearing could be down to gain being applied in the output stage of the device?

Normally, all my blind tests are done with no ability for me to ascertain which device is in play, and with 1-2 people with me who knows little about audio and have no knowledge of the input changes or potential outcomes. However, I'd love to add a way to properly measure / test volume changes in my rig. I have a hypothesis that volume changes in output stages might account for some perceived sonic differences. Volume matching devices, as one example, is a nightmare and the more i look into - the more I am skeptical that it's done right most of the time. And it's important if .2db matters (and the differences in the pricing of devices we pay for are in the $100's if not $1000's).

And not to be too cynical (I really like this device and how it performs) - but it would make sense for a manufacturer to ignore gain changes for cost reasons, or even gain increases when they could benefit other devices they sell (e.g. clocks).

Not trying to take this thread off topic - but i think it's relevant to the clock performance question with the Gustard. Would be interesting to know if people noticed the volume differential (maybe it's just me and my bias) or can help me with some pointers on how to meter/test volume settings properly. Am just curious.

 

[comzee]

@Jake2 @Dandoudou

I hadn't tested I2S since I did the system firmware upgrade to version 2022-11-15
I was figuring maybe Dandoudou's R26 came shipped with the newer firmware and it swapped the I2S methodology.

Reporting back, I still have the same issue. I2S is stuck on DSD.
Wish I had Dandoudou's problem as I only listen to PCM haha, bummer.

 

[Jake2]

Hey guys - random question here connected with the Gustard.

Is there a way to use a meter of any sort to test what output volumes (or maybe voltages) the Gustard emits when different settings are used (e.g. the external clock)?

i have a/b tested the clock again today and I noticed a difference for the first time. A perceived step up in clarity. This was with Roon upsampling to 512 and with the clock in the system now about 10 days (Hadn't A/B tested since day 1). However, when I tested this track , I could of sworn the track was louder. if you listen to the strings as they come in over the first minute, they appear louder with the clock on vs off. It would be helpful if someone could confirm / deny this loudness difference on their rig?

My understanding is that humans are highly influenced by volume, with a decibel sensitivity of 0.2db IIRC (someone correct me here if i am wrong on that) where louder devices (particularly in bass regions) often trump preference tests. So I am wondering whether these clock differences we are hearing could be down to gain being applied in the output stage of the device?

Normally, all my blind tests are done with no ability for me to ascertain which device is in play, and with 1-2 people with me who knows little about audio and have no knowledge of the input changes or potential outcomes. However, I'd love to add a way to properly measure / test volume changes in my rig. I have a hypothesis that volume changes in output stages might account for some perceived sonic differences. Volume matching devices, as one example, is a nightmare and the more i look into - the more I am skeptical that it's done right most of the time. And it's important if .2db matters (and the differences in the pricing of devices we pay for are in the $100's if not $1000's).

And not to be too cynical (I really like this device and how it performs) - but it would make sense for a manufacturer to ignore gain changes for cost reasons, or even gain increases when they could benefit other devices they sell (e.g. clocks).

Not trying to take this thread off topic - but i think it's relevant to the clock performance question with the Gustard. Would be interesting to know if people noticed the volume differential (maybe it's just me and my bias) or can help me with some pointers on how to meter/test volume settings properly. Am just curious.

Hi @Odezra I get a difference I guess one could describe or perceive as greater loudness, but I'd probably characterise it as greater dynamic range and impact, speed and weight of transients. I can't rule out that transient peaks or leading edges are in fact fractionally louder, but if they are I think it more likely that would be as a result of the greater precision, lessened temporal blurring resulting in a purer transient signal being amplified and then recreated by your speaker drivers than any sort of super-subtle 'gaming' of inputs by a manufacturer for a super niche product like a clock! For the record I noticed the same character of differences with the SMSL DAC I had.

I have a radioshack SPL meter I've used for level matching equipment. I guess I could try sending a constant pink noise signal and toggling clock on/off and measure this the relative levels. But I fear 0.2db (or even just <1db) is well below its level of precision - the meter continuously moves +/-1-3db or more even when you set it to smoothed C-weighted and slow response, though I guess that is with a constantly varying music signal. Will keep you posted...

As to why you noticed the difference today for the first time, I can only speculate that if it has been some time (weeks?) since you last did an AB then maybe the clock has still been in a burn-in/stabilisation phase. The theory this takes weeks of being continuously on is from some experienced AfterDark clock owners over in the Audio-Gd threads...

 

[Odezra]

Hi @Odezra I get a difference I guess one could describe or perceive as greater loudness, but I'd probably characterise it as greater dynamic range and impact, speed and weight of transients. I can't rule out that transient peaks or leading edges are in fact fractionally louder, but if they are I think it more likely that would be as a result of the greater precision, lessened temporal blurring resulting in a purer transient signal being amplified and then recreated by your speaker drivers than any sort of super-subtle 'gaming' of inputs by a manufacturer for a super niche product like a clock! For the record I noticed the same character of differences with the SMSL DAC I had.

I have a radioshack SPL meter I've used for level matching equipment. I guess I could try sending a constant pink noise signal and toggling clock on/off and measure this the relative levels. But I fear 0.2db (or even just <1db) is well below its level of precision - the meter continuously moves +/-1-3db or more even when you set it to smoothed C-weighted and slow response, though I guess that is with a constantly varying music signal. Will keep you posted...

As to why you noticed the difference today for the first time, I can only speculate that if it has been some time (weeks?) since you last did an AB then maybe the clock has still been in a burn-in/stabilisation phase. The theory this takes weeks of being continuously on is from some experienced AfterDark clock owners over in the Audio-Gd threads...

thanks jake. That would be helpful if you get a chance at some stage (no pressure).

It could be that the extra clarity is coming off as a volume increase but I'd love to test it. In either case, interesting to hear a change in the performance of the system. Have also ordered the gustard c2 to see if that changes anything up.

 

[Jake2]

thanks jake. That would be helpful if you get a chance at some stage (no pressure).

It could be that the extra clarity is coming off as a volume increase but I'd love to test it. In either case, interesting to hear a change in the performance of the system.

I'll give it a go but it is going to have to wait till at least after Friday night drinks this evening after which I give no guarantees as to the precision of any post-IPA/APA audio testing conducted...

 

[Odezra]

I'll give it a go but it is going to have to wait till at least after Friday night drinks this evening after which I give no guarantees as to the precision of any post-IPA/APA audio testing conducted...

Ha - all good. My system always sounds a million dollars over Friday night beers...

 

[Forgisound]

Hey guys - random question here connected with the Gustard.

Is there a way to use a meter of any sort to test what output volumes (or maybe voltages) the Gustard emits when different settings are used (e.g. the external clock)?

i have a/b tested the clock again today and I noticed a difference for the first time. A perceived step up in clarity. This was with Roon upsampling to 512 and with the clock in the system now about 10 days (Hadn't A/B tested since day 1). However, when I tested this track , I could of sworn the track was louder. if you listen to the strings as they come in over the first minute, they appear louder with the clock on vs off. It would be helpful if someone could confirm / deny this loudness difference on their rig?

My understanding is that humans are highly influenced by volume, with a decibel sensitivity of 0.2db IIRC (someone correct me here if i am wrong on that) where louder devices (particularly in bass regions) often trump preference tests. So I am wondering whether these clock differences we are hearing could be down to gain being applied in the output stage of the device?

Normally, all my blind tests are done with no ability for me to ascertain which device is in play, and with 1-2 people with me who knows little about audio and have no knowledge of the input changes or potential outcomes. However, I'd love to add a way to properly measure / test volume changes in my rig. I have a hypothesis that volume changes in output stages might account for some perceived sonic differences. Volume matching devices, as one example, is a nightmare and the more i look into - the more I am skeptical that it's done right most of the time. And it's important if .2db matters (and the differences in the pricing of devices we pay for are in the $100's if not $1000's).

And not to be too cynical (I really like this device and how it performs) - but it would make sense for a manufacturer to ignore gain changes for cost reasons, or even gain increases when they could benefit other devices they sell (e.g. clocks).

Not trying to take this thread off topic - but i think it's relevant to the clock performance question with the Gustard. Would be interesting to know if people noticed the volume differential (maybe it's just me and my bias) or can help me with some pointers on how to meter/test volume settings properly. Am just curious.

I have noticed that when the clock is on, I can listen louder. Setup prefers that I turn it up. While without a clock, I have to turn it down on some recordings. I attribute that to the cleaner sound.
I don't know if it's louder overall. However, even if it were louder, that effect would lose its importance over time. When I stop switching with and without the clock.
I am personally sure that the sound with the watch is significantly better for me, regardless of the volume.

 

[Jake2]

I have noticed that when the clock is on, I can listen louder. Setup prefers that I turn it up. While without a clock, I have to turn it down on some recordings. I attribute that to the cleaner sound.
I don't know if it's louder overall. However, even if it were louder, that effect would lose its importance over time. When I stop switching with and without the clock.
I am personally sure that the sound with the watch is significantly better for me, regardless of the volume.

I agree on both counts. For me any lessening of slightly etched edges and digital haze my speakers (and ears) are so sensitive to makes me more inclined to turn the volume up. I agree too that the OCK-1 makes a qualitative difference to a number of aspects of the sound regardless of volume. With the Topping E50 my inclination was to turn every second song down, so harsh it was, even after the U18 smoothed its edges. The R26 out of the box was soo much more natural sounding and crank-up-able than the E50, the R26 + OCK1 even more so.

 

[analogdays]

.

 

[Alenotta]

Gustard's A26 is now up on Shenzen Audio. I'm very curious about that one. I came to the R26 from the SMSL m400 which had one of their older AKM chips in it. They've priced it the same as the R26 essentially. Really wonder how they compare.

My R26 is still making this terribly annoying quiet dog whistle out of the front of it. Gustard sent me the November firmware, but that didn't help.

 

[camrector]

Gustard's A26 is now up on Shenzen Audio. I'm very curious about that one. I came to the R26 from the SMSL m400 which had one of their older AKM chips in it. They've priced it the same as the R26 essentially. Really wonder how they compare.

My R26 is still making this terribly annoying quiet dog whistle out of the front of it. Gustard sent me the November firmware, but that didn't help.

I was just about to post the same lol.
The only AKM chip DAC I’ve been able to tolerate is the Geshelli J2. Every other one I heard had just terrible voicing. Sterile is a good start. I actually didn’t think it was possible to make a AKM
Dac sound good until the Geshelli.

I do have the same curiosity as you though because this R26 is so good.

 

[Fluty]

I have just added the Leo Bodnar GPS precision clock to the R26 and for the cost this takes the DAC up another level
http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=107&products_id=234

The R26 is now punching harder mids are even more open with improvements across the range. For the amount off money it costs I would recommend giving something like this a try.

That slight warmth I would occasionally hear is now gone. Now a lot closer to a Rockna Wavelight

What connecting lead are you using for the Leo Bodnar clock? I've ordered one but find that the Gustard cable costs almost as much as the clock!