GUSTARD DAC-R26 Balanced Decoder R2R+1Bit Dual Native Decoding Music Bridge

[Nada]

With optical isolation on LAN its worth bearing in mind that there will still be noise from the final optical to electrical stage. So the final ethernet noise will be dependent on the quality of the last stage. Optical isnt a panacea.

 

[BShaw]

Yep ordered them too. Mine has the same barrel connector as yours...



We think alike -> 3M Dual Lock

I did the same thing, Gorilla tape though

 

[BShaw]

Well your pm to me yesterday was somewhat different then you claim here ,….however that’s not why I’m responding to you . All of your responses on this thread it’s obvious your just a troll with a chip on your shoulder, you lash out over tiny issues , what do you care what complete strangers buy with their own money ? are you some sort of Ralph Natter of home audio ? Wait don’t answer that I won’t be reading it …
Your recent joining here is suspect after going over your responses including other topics you have little to nothing to add , your ready to pounce on anyone for comments you don’t approve of ,,..

Me thinks a better place for you with like minded angry old men is ASR , there you can let it all out joining in with pounding fists , grit teeth and tears .

Well, somebody had to come out and say it.
I have no issue with legitimate debate or difference of opinion, when the motivation is actually to help each other out. I've learned tons from those who had new information or showed me my blind spots. But lobbing antagonistic, sarcastic, contemptuous responses just for the sport is another thing altogether, and has different motivations, however convinced the issuer may be of their story. I definitely know helpful from troll, and this forum has been a place of learning and camaraderie for the most part, I'd really like to keep it that way.

 

[BShaw]

With optical isolation on LAN its worth bearing in mind that there will still be noise from the final optical to electrical stage. So the final ethernet noise will be dependent on the quality of the last stage. Optical isnt a panacea.

I'm sure you're right Nada, but at 250mm it's pretty brief exposure. My thinking is that it's not so much the noise picked up by the ethernet cable, but ditching the accumulated noise from the entire stream from the router, modem (and their PSs) all the way out to the street. So maybe it isn't a panacea, but it sure is solid step. I'm not a network guy, so this is just my common sense, open to other ideas here.

 

[camrector]

With optical isolation on LAN it’s worth bearing in mind that there will still be noise from the final optical to electrical stage. So the final ethernet noise will be dependent on the quality of the last stage. Optical isnt a panacea.

Nothings perfect.With a LPS and the smallest Ethernet cable you can find (mine is 20in.) running to the R26, any potential noise will be very very minimal. It’s way better than not doing it.

 

[cobrabucket]

Nothings perfect.With a LPS and the smallest Ethernet cable you can find (mine is 20in.) running to the R26, any potential noise will be very very minimal. It’s way better than not doing it.

Haven't tried LAN yet bc I still have to rearrange my room. I plan on getting all that squared away when the fiber converters get here. But thus far, I am intrigued by the fact that I prefer my Pi2AES via AES over the U18 via I²S [except DSD; Pi2AES is PCM only)]. However, I have the OCK-1 otw, so we'll see if that changes my preferences. If LAN is half as good as y'all are saying, it's gonna get VERY interesting!

Look into Acme Labs fuses, they’re $20 and have a lot of fans. Revolution sells them.

Thanks for the heads up. They seem much more reasonable. If it's snake oil, hey at least it's only $22! I just bought 2 of them, 3.15A for the R26 and 500ma for the U18.
I installed the "upgraded" Gustard fuse right away, so could compare these 2 fuses.


Man... I must say that all of this is a whole lot of experimenting - not that it isn't fun. But at some point, I will need to pick a preferred input and fuse and just enjoy the music!!!

 

[Nada]

..... any potential noise will be very very minimal. It’s way better than not doing it.

How do you know that Optical LAN noise is minimal? It might be very high noise and sound worse depending on the device.

Optical LANs have been used by audiophiles for over a decade. Most with the belief that they are low noise. All without measurements. It's just wishful thinking. Another audiophile myth.

Potential noise using an optical ethernet device is dependent on the quality of the final optical electrical conversion stage. If it's inherently high, then no LPS or Ethernet cable will make a difference. Depending on the model, it may be low or high. Past listening tests have not always favoured an optical LAN "filter". This supports the rationale of the final stage dominating the result. So an optical stage can make the sound worse.

Believing optical is inherently low noise is just wishful thinking. Its cool you like what you have done. It's cool that you are promoting something that is so cheap. It's clearly a great idea to electrically isolate the system from a wired Internet connection in case of a lightening strike. Either WIFI or optical could do that. Again, the final noise will depend on the final stage.

So what to do?

Without measurement data or listening tests the best choice maybe
A. just use the current LAN. Relax and enjoy the music
B. if you have to dabble
1. buy a WIFI bridge/low cost optical LAN/filters
2. Buy 5V models and run them on LPS
3. Compare the WIFI vs Optical
4. See if you can pick the difference with a friend pulling the cable

 

[camrector]

How do you know that Optical LAN noise is minimal? It might be very high noise and sound worse depending on the device.

Optical LANs have been used by audiophiles for over a decade. Most with the belief that they are low noise. All without measurements. It's just wishful thinking. Another audiophile myth.

Potential noise using an optical ethernet device is dependent on the quality of the final optical electrical conversion stage. If it's inherently high, then no LPS or Ethernet cable will make a difference. Depending on the model, it may be low or high. Past listening tests have not always favoured an optical LAN "filter". This supports the rationale of the final stage dominating the result. So an optical stage can make the sound worse.

Believing optical is inherently low noise is just wishful thinking. Its cool you like what you have done. It's cool that you are promoting something that is so cheap. It's clearly a great idea to electrically isolate the system from a wired Internet connection in case of a lightening strike. Either WIFI or optical could do that. Again, the final noise will depend on the final stage.

So what to do?

Without measurement data or listening tests the best choice maybe
A. just use the current LAN. Relax and enjoy the music
B. if you have to dabble
1. buy a WIFI bridge/low cost optical LAN/filters
2. Buy 5V models and run them on LPS
3. Compare the WIFI vs Optical
4. See if you can pick the difference with a friend pulling the cable

I would like to know where you are basing these opinions from.
1. Just to clarify we are talking about Fiber optical cable, not Toslink optical.
2. Every single article I’ve found (some I’ve posted here) speaks to the benefits of adding fiber media convertors to your network. Every single one says that noise measures lower, and sound quality is improved.

Can you show me any article showing otherwise?
Can you show me any listening test that shows fiber optic cable and media converters blamed for negative outcomes? Or where certain fiber media convertors models are more noisy than other models?
I can’t find any. I find the EXACT opposite.
Every white paper, every article, every network engineer interviewed, says pretty much the opposite of your above opinion.
Please share some findings then because all these scientists must be suffering from the same wishful thinking that I am.

 

[BShaw]

With no apparent measurements to be found to support pro or con, like I said earlier, echoed above, I found nothing but raves from those who HAD ACTUALLY TRIED IT. Sometimes all we have is our flawed senses and misleading beliefs I guess. Oh well, this little mod is fantastic to my ears, and at the end of the day that’s sufficient.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

My ears. My money. My benefit/loss. Continue to enjoy the music.



and equipment....

 

[comzee]

I talked on this subject early in the thread, but it was 100 pages back haha.

Essentially, by doing optical ethernet you're not reducing jitter per se, or not so much the point, as far as I understand it.
Any signal carried over copper (or whatever conductive material), always has electricity carried over it.

In the case of TCP/IP, one would think, TCP is error correcting. The data goes from router to R26 buffer, bit perfect.
You can't get more bitperfect over optical, and this is true.

The theory, or rather hypothesis, is that the minute amount of electricity carried over the TCP/IP signal over the catX cable can infiltrate the endpoint (R26), causing jitter at the buffers egress! Whoa! Mindblown.jpeg

This is exactly why people here doing the optical fiber route are using linear power supplies for the converter box, clean power.

Now, for some nervosa for everybody that's already done the optical route
As far as I'm aware, all consumer fiber -> copper boxes have "buck" converters.
Buck converters are very bad for clean power. Does a fiber to copper converter exist without a buck converter that one can buy? Not sure, haven't looked super hard.

Cookie for anybody that finds one!

 

[camrector]

I talked on this subject early in the thread, but it was 100 pages back haha.

Essentially, by doing optical ethernet you're not reducing jitter per se, or not so much the point, as far as I understand it.
Any signal carried over copper (or whatever conductive material), always has electricity carried over it.

In the case of TCP/IP, one would think, TCP is error correcting. The data goes from router to R26 buffer, bit perfect.
You can't get more bitperfect over optical, and this is true.

The theory, or rather hypothesis, is that the minute amount of electricity carried over the TCP/IP signal over the catX cable can infiltrate the endpoint (R26), causing jitter at the buffers egress! Whoa! Mindblown.jpeg

This is exactly why people here doing the optical fiber route are using linear power supplies for the converter box, clean power.

Now, for some nervosa for everybody that's already done the optical route
As far as I'm aware, all consumer fiber -> copper boxes have "buck" converters.
Buck converters are very bad for clean power. Does a fiber to copper converter exist without a buck converter that one can buy? Not sure, haven't looked super hard.

Cookie for anybody that finds one!

My approach in using fiber and media convertors is to reduce and eliminate as much emi/rfi noise as possible that has accumulated from outside my home to inside.
The fiber strips all that off. Any noise that might come from the second FBM convertor is minimized by an extremely low noise/ripple Linear power supply. Any noise possibly made by a dc/dc buck convertor, is minimized by a basic ceramic capacitor within the device. Noise is way lower with these than without.
These aren’t noisy devices to begin with and clean power on the input from the LPS takes care of any potential problem.


Here’s a look inside

 

[Nada]

I would like to know where you are basing these opinions from.

I've explained the rationale already. If you are embedded in a belief that optical Ethernet is magically always an improvement, it may take some effort to see the other side.

Just consider the basics. With ethernet protocol being so robust, data integrity and jitter are meaningless. What matters then is noise. Optical can isolate from the network. That should be a benefit. But if the network is clean and a cheap optical Ethernet convertor model is inherently noisy, the result could be worse.

Blindly believing that all optical is always better is naive. It depends on the actual optical to electrical design. It may be much better. It may be worse. It may be the same.

However, blind belief is a great way to model expectation bias and generate a placebo response. Strip that out and results might be rather disappointing.

all these scientists must be suffering from the same wishful thinking that I am.

With respect, what scientist would research the audio properties of Ethernet data feed? Scientists generally have more important questions to solve. Id be interested to see you listing "all these scientists" and their papers, because I'm highly sceptical of your unreferenced claims here.

Please be careful in your referencing. Be aware that commercial white papers marketing laser Ethernet transmission that you have listed have nothing to do with audio and nothing to do with science.

Misquoting science is one of the worst sins in audio.

To be honest I think if you have to buy more boxes spending a few dollars on an optical LAN "filter" with LPS is one of the better rational buys. Just dont expect it to always sound better.

 

[Pashmeister]

Well your pm to me yesterday was somewhat different then you claim here ,….however that’s not why I’m responding to you . All of your responses on this thread it’s obvious your just a troll with a chip on your shoulder, you lash out over tiny issues , what do you care what complete strangers buy with their own money ? are you some sort of Ralph Natter of home audio ? Wait don’t answer that I won’t be reading it …
Your recent joining here is suspect after going over your responses including other topics you have little to nothing to add , your ready to pounce on anyone for comments you don’t approve of ,,..

Me thinks a better place for you with like minded angry old men is ASR , there you can let it all out joining in with pounding fists , grit teeth and tears .

Is he still at it?! I’ve blocked this person many weeks ago and I’m sad to see his toxicity is still spreading around. Use the block function, it’s amazing!

 

[Forgisound]

I have optical internet to the router. The home network is wired. One 7 m long cable leads from the router to the network switch for HiFi. The Roon PC, NAS and R26 LAN cables are connected to the network switch with a length of 1 m, audiophile quality.
I'm not sure if I'm better off getting an audiophile network switch, or getting an optical cable and converters.
I agree that an optical connection would cut off the influence of other devices and their power supplies. On the other hand, optical switches introduce several more electronic circuits with their power supplies. The question of the quality of these cheap optical converters is also legitimate. I'm not sure.