GUSTARD DAC-R26 Balanced Decoder R2R+1Bit Dual Native Decoding Music Bridge

[Highfive99]

Can someone help me understand something. The R26 has a 1-bit DSD DAC for decoding DSD natively without having to convert to PCM. My question is, if I were to upsample/convert everything to DSD via software such as Roon, does that mean the DSD stream is being decoded only by the 1-bit DAC and doesn't go through the R2R ladders at all?

 

[mantraone]

Can someone help me understand something. The R26 has a 1-bit DSD DAC for decoding DSD natively without having to convert to PCM. My question is, if I were to upsample/convert everything to DSD via software such as Roon, does that mean the DSD stream is being decoded only by the 1-bit DAC and doesn't go through the R2R ladders at all?

let me cut & paste from wikipedia about Direct Stream Digital
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Stream_Digital

DSD compatible hardware[edit]​

"Native DSD" playback definition is somewhat a matter of philosophy. Generally speaking, it avoids the conversion of DSD data into multibit PCM at anywhere along the decoding/reproduction chain, as is common in digital volume control.[citation needed]

Many commercially available DACs now support 'native DSD', featuring off-the-shelf chips from ESS, AKM, Cirrus Logic, or Burr Brown.

Due to the minimalist appeal of 1-bit DSD, and its theoretical simplicity in decoding, there are also commercially available and DIY DACs that specialize in DSD decoding, avoiding the use of off-the-shelf DAC chips. These include RT Audio Design's Pure DSD Converter, and the STAR Pure DSD DAC.

Finally, Ed Meitner and Andreas Koch, who have historical ties with the development of DSD and SACD, have companies that produce DACs. Ed Meitner has affiliation with EMM Labs and Meitner Audio. Andreas Koch is affiliated with Playback Designs.

 

[Highfive99]

let me cut & paste from wikipedia about Direct Stream Digital
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Stream_Digital

DSD compatible hardware[edit]​

"Native DSD" playback definition is somewhat a matter of philosophy. Generally speaking, it avoids the conversion of DSD data into multibit PCM at anywhere along the decoding/reproduction chain, as is common in digital volume control.[citation needed]

Many commercially available DACs now support 'native DSD', featuring off-the-shelf chips from ESS, AKM, Cirrus Logic, or Burr Brown.

Due to the minimalist appeal of 1-bit DSD, and its theoretical simplicity in decoding, there are also commercially available and DIY DACs that specialize in DSD decoding, avoiding the use of off-the-shelf DAC chips. These include RT Audio Design's Pure DSD Converter, and the STAR Pure DSD DAC.

Finally, Ed Meitner and Andreas Koch, who have historical ties with the development of DSD and SACD, have companies that produce DACs. Ed Meitner has affiliation with EMM Labs and Meitner Audio. Andreas Koch is affiliated with Playback Designs.

So if I understand correctly, if I buy a R26 and feed it only DSD, I am essentially buying just a 1-bit DAC and the R2R ladders are useless. Seeing as I do convert to DSD in Roon and it sounds fantastic to me in my system, looks like a big pass for me on R2R as I am quite happy with the X26p and the 9038 Pro chips handling the decoding.

 

[EMINENT]

So if I understand correctly, if I buy a R26 and feed it only DSD, I am essentially buying just a 1-bit DAC and the R2R ladders are useless. Seeing as I do convert to DSD in Roon and it sounds fantastic to me in my system, looks like a big pass for me on R2R as I am quite happy with the X26p and the 9038 Pro chips handling the decoding.

No, in Native it goes to ladders from my understanding and the volume is fixed.

DSD DIRECT：

Default is OFF. Turn on to bypassing the internal interpolating FIR filter. The raw DSD stream is sent into the R-2R ladder directly.
*the volume adjustment is bypassed in this mode, so it is better to decrease the volume of amplifiers before enter this mode.
With the improvement of devices’ performance and algorithm diversity of playback software, audiophiles can use high-performance PC to carry out digital oversampling filtering. Through the ports support high sampling rate(USB, IIS, LAN), the processed signal is directly sent into R-2R decoding ladder. Different from the built-in algorithm, software digital filters may provide higher sound quality and different listening experience.

Read more: https://manuals.plus/gustard/r26-high-performance-audio-dac-manual#ixzz7f1DQuqf2

 

[Forgisound]

Do you think going from LKS 004 to R26 can bring SQ improvement? The LKS nominally has a much better dynamic range, but in the bass the dynamics does not follow the midrange and treble range.
Even with some amplifiers, it can have sharpness and sibilance.

Considering that R26 is more musical than Delta Sigma DACs according to reviews, and LKS has Sabre chips.

 

[Johnjc1]

The LKS sabre basd DAC I heard had issues in coherence where specific frequencies seemed to be overcooked. This might be sorted in later models.
For my personal taste I prefer R2R DAC's done well as they give me a coherent sound so I am hearing more into the whole rather than either more bass or treble

 

[Highfive99]

No, in Native it goes to ladders from my understanding and the volume is fixed.

Thanks for that. I understand much better now.

 

[LFC_SL]

Post 257 does not give the full picture. Look at the block diagram for AKM 4493 and ESS 9038 for example

https://www.akm.com/eu/en/products/audio/audio-dac/ak4493seq/

https://www.esstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ES9038PRO-Datasheet-v3.7.pdf

ESS converts DSD to PCM internally

There is though a good chance every site member has heard an album mastered on Prism Sound converters. Prism seem to think modern technology makes the DSD to PCM conversion process transparent with no loss

https://www.prismsound.com/hifi/dsdtech.php

DSD cannot be edited so it is likely your DSD files or SACD discs were converted to PCM then back to DSD during the mastering process

 

[12kurupt]

Just received U18 and am wondering if I’m not understanding the connection correctly. Usb from pc to ddc and then i2s to R26. I set clock to internal for u18 since I don’t have an external clock. R26 set to i2s and I set the clock to external (so it’ll use the clock inside the U18). The EXT on the r26 shows ERR. Pretty sure I’m not understanding the connection correctly.

 

[kumar402]

Just received U18 and am wondering if I’m not understanding the connection correctly. Usb from pc to ddc and then i2s to R26. I set clock to internal for u18 since I don’t have an external clock. R26 set to i2s and I set the clock to external (so it’ll use the clock inside the U18). The EXT on the r26 shows ERR. Pretty sure I’m not understanding the connection correctly.

I don’t think you should set clock to external in DAC unless you connect the DAC with any external clock. For eg. If U18 has clock output then connect DAC with U18 via BNC for clock out put and then I2S will feed signal.

 

[Giangi]

Just received U18 and am wondering if I’m not understanding the connection correctly. Usb from pc to ddc and then i2s to R26. I set clock to internal for u18 since I don’t have an external clock. R26 set to i2s and I set the clock to external (so it’ll use the clock inside the U18). The EXT on the r26 shows ERR. Pretty sure I’m not understanding the connection correctly.

U18 is a ddc not an external clock

 

[mantraone]

Just received U18 and am wondering if I’m not understanding the connection correctly. Usb from pc to ddc and then i2s to R26. I set clock to internal for u18 since I don’t have an external clock. R26 set to i2s and I set the clock to external (so it’ll use the clock inside the U18). The EXT on the r26 shows ERR. Pretty sure I’m not understanding the connection correctly.

Leave the internal clock set on both, DAC and U18, only with external master clock connected to the coaxial 10Mhz you can activate this options. In my experience, I tested also the C18 and Mutec Ref 10 have more Sound quality improvement on U18 than on DAC (X26 pro tested, but never on R26... yet...)

 

[roncal]

Post 257 does not give the full picture. Look at the block diagram for AKM 4493 and ESS 9038 for example

https://www.akm.com/eu/en/products/audio/audio-dac/ak4493seq/

https://www.esstech.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ES9038PRO-Datasheet-v3.7.pdf

ESS converts DSD to PCM internally

There is though a good chance every site member has heard an album mastered on Prism Sound converters. Prism seem to think modern technology makes the DSD to PCM conversion process transparent with no loss

https://www.prismsound.com/hifi/dsdtech.php

DSD cannot be edited so it is likely your DSD files or SACD discs were converted to PCM then back to DSD during the mastering process

ES9038PRO and AK449x are different in how they can optimize the DSD. AK449x has a preferential "DSD Direct" path which bypasses the sigma delta modulator inside the chip. ES9038PRO uses different optimizations for the DSD. Without going too far into the hardware specifications, the thing that appears evident is the quality of the overall implementation rather than the chip used. In fact, it would not explain why the HQPlayer software recommends explicitly using RME converters with the AKM chip only while there are no restrictions for exaSound converters that use only ESS chips.

Personally I can say that AK4490 (RME ADI-2) has a much more analog sound in DSD Direct but the quality depends a lot on the sigma delta algorithm that is used. Clearly the AK4490 chip doesn't have the same resources as a computer but even HQPlayer can degrade the sound if you don't choose the right settings.

Returning to Gustard X26PRO and R26 it seems more interesting to compare the DSD between ES9038PRO and the 1-bit discrete R26 DSD circuit which has nothing to do with PCM R2R. What are the differences between these two sigma delta DSD circuits in the presentation of the DSD sound?

 

[12kurupt]

U18 is a ddc not an external clock

I was under the impression you could use the clock inside the ddc instead of the internal clock of the dac.

Leave the internal clock set on both, DAC and U18, only with external master clock connected to the coaxial 10Mhz you can activate this options. In my experience, I tested also the C18 and Mutec Ref 10 have more Sound quality improvement on U18 than on DAC (X26 pro tested, but never on R26... yet...)

So upon receiving an external clock, I’d either connect it to the ddc or the dac and set that connected component to external?

Example: External clock to ddc, ddc i2s to dac. Ddc set to external / dac set to internal?

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

When using U18 only, set clock settings of both U18 and R26 to internal.
Internal clocks in U18 is used for reclocking. However it does sends some clocking info via WCLCK in I2S for correct playback.

When adding an external clock (such as C18) connect BNC to U18 AND R26 and set clock settings to EXTERNAL.

EX: External Clock connect to BOTH ddc AND dac, ddc i2s to dac, ddc AND dac set clock settings to EXTERNAL.