[Forgisound]

This is exactly the claim of the external clock lovers. They claim they are SURE it is a huge improvement and answer the scientists by saying they do not know what to measure for, or are measuring at frequencies that don't cover the totality of the package, etc.....

IMHO after experimenting with a lot of high end equipment, these clocks make a HUGE difference for the positive to my ears- although I admit it could be placebo effect..... I have rejected many pieces of equipment that had broad support. When the yggy dac came out it was universally acclaimed as being something extraordinary. I bought it and never liked it. So if I am brainwashed- there is still a limit...

When the difference is clearly audible, when confirmed by several experienced audiophiles, there is no doubt that the difference objectively exists. I'm not sure if we know how to measure the sonic differences introduced by power cables, USB cables, etc. And cables definitely sound different. Like all other components.

 

[565321]

When the difference is clearly audible, when confirmed by several experienced audiophiles, there is no doubt that the difference objectively exists. I'm not sure if we know how to measure the sonic differences introduced by power cables, USB cables, etc. And cables definitely sound different. Like all other components.

Just because others experience expectation bias doesn't mean that they are right. It's a powerful force, especially when tinkering with all kinds of exotic cables and gadgets are a very important in having a music system. Most differences in digital stuff are marginal. It's confirmed time after time. It's not like the effects of room treatment.

 

[migo]

This debate is interesting but a bit off-topic now. Please can we stay with R26 please...

 

[snico]

NOS mode is crisper and better IMHO.

Hibiki. Not well known to people outside of China but an excellent clock. -113db at 1hz-- and only $1,300 including shipping.. I keep the clock on 24/7. I used to own a Mutec Ref10 SE-120 and it does essentially the same thing as the Hibiki- really adds solidity and base to the sound...

You should take the time to listen to it in OS mode (NOS off, mid filter), my feeling is the exact opposite . Everything becomes tighter and less in your face.

 

[VanHai]

I've been breaking in the dac for 3-4 days and it does sound reasonably good. I do find it perhaps- overly thick sounding at the cost of some detail and crispness.

I'm hopeful that break in will help; but I am a bit concerned. Actually, every piece of new equipment I have ever purchased is initially a bid muddy; but I find the muddiness usually breaks within 1-3 days... Using my high quality10mhz external clock definitely makes things worse in this area and really darkens things up. Hoping for the best...

Check your voltage switches, i did not pay attention when i plugged it in yesterday. Manufacture set at 220v, but it worked yesterday to 120v, i have no idea and i am not electrical engineer. This morning i flipped them down to 110v and the sound improves so much, only after 24 hours of burn in.

 

[ClicketEKlack]

I appreciate your correction. Let me say it this way. The D90 is one of the best measuring dacs ever made and "many" listeners do not like the way it reproduces sound.

The point however remains the same: Things that technically are better are very very often worse in our subjective minds or "ears", and many components which measure quite terribly, often have many loyal followers; External clocks are one of these examples... and there are so so many others.

Yes, that is completely accurate. There is a fair number of listeners and reviewers who have not enjoyed the D90. And I am one who added a tube/SS hybrid amp to the Topping stack which likely measures like garbage, but makes the hyper-detailed and "sterile" (to some) sound feel fuller and smoother. So I'm guilty of having a foot in both camps. I will say that paying attention to the measurements crowd has saved a LOT of money.

 

[565321]

Just add up to 1 % 2nd harmonics and you're in triode heaven. Can prob be done digitally.

 

[Forgisound]

Check your voltage switches, i did not pay attention when i plugged it in yesterday. Manufacture set at 220v, but it worked yesterday to 120v, i have no idea and i am not electrical engineer. This morning i flipped them down to 110v and the sound improves so much, only after 24 hours of burn in.

You're lucky it wasn't the other way around. Why didn't you release 220 V to the device set for 110 V

 

[VanHai]

You're lucky it wasn't the other way around. Why didn't you release 220 V to the device set for 110 V

You are right, could be the other way around. I thought manufacture supposes to set the correct voltage to what region or country they send it to. No harm done, enjoy your music

 

[stoicar]

I don’t understand way in here we discussed measurements. R26 is not a pc is a musical device. Or I’m wrong?

 

[Knobstler]

Can someone please tell how I can update from Mac? and which firmwares are available I find different ones on the Gustard page.

 

[barato]

It can be argued that if a DAC sounds better with an external clock it means
A. The DAC is very poorly designed and isnt worth trying to fix with an external clock

It is very simple but you seem to be struggling, it means the external clock is better than the internal clock.

Gustard clock are the real deal, extremely low jitter, you will not find any DAC with internal clock anywhere near the same level as the C18.
it is expensive.

More relevant I would say is if an ethernet isolator improves the sound dramatically and even has clearly audible 'break in' then the DAC is extremely poorly designed and isn't worth trying to fix, but a lot more likely the listener is caught in a cognitive bias trap.

 

[barato]

It goes further than this my friend. Google "10mhz clock" and "jitter" and you will find the scientific evidence is that every single external clock increases jitter over an internal clock. Meaning- these clocks make things worse. But then again, we all know that measurements and sonic likings have a poor correlation.

The only difference between external and internal clock in the case of the gustard R26 is that one is inside the DAC chassis and the other isn't.

If external clock is technical nightmare for the engineer they are incompetent so the DAC already probably sucks.
There is no inherent disadvantage to the clock being external with proper termination and design, rather there is the advantage of dedicated PSU and shielding for reduced crosstalk/contamination between the clock and DAC circuits.
To put things in perspective BNC connectors are rated for 3GHz and these clocks operate at only 10MHz, there is no nowhere near the same design considerations needed as for ultra high frequency applications.

Gustard have demonstrated their engineering prowess with design of C18 imo.

Nobody is crazy to think good clock is worthwhile, or at least still less crazy than those who spend thousands on R2R dacs over "theoretically" superior $100 chi-fi DAC or a $10 apple dongle.

 

[rsbrsvp]

The only difference between external and internal clock in the case of the gustard R26 is that one is inside the DAC chassis and the other isn't.

If external clock is technical nightmare for the engineer they are incompetent so the DAC already probably sucks.
There is no inherent disadvantage to the clock being external with proper termination and design, rather there is the advantage of dedicated PSU and shielding for reduced crosstalk/contamination between the clock and DAC circuits.
To put things in perspective BNC connectors are rated for 3GHz and these clocks operate at only 10MHz, there is no nowhere near the same design considerations needed as for ultra high frequency applications.

Gustard have demonstrated their engineering prowess with design of C18 imo.

Nobody is crazy to think good clock is worthwhile, or at least still less crazy than those who spend thousands on R2R dacs over "theoretically" superior $100 chi-fi DAC or a $10 apple dongle.

Like I said- IMHO a good external clock has a greater effect than ANY other component in my system. I would take a good dac with a great external clock over a great dac with no external clock. In fact- I'm going in that direction now. I bought the R26- a very good dac, but obviously not the last word out there and I just purchased the After Dark OXCO 10 mhz clock.

 

[barato]

Like I said- IMHO a good external clock has a greater effect than ANY other component in my system. I would take a good dac with a great external clock over a great dac with no external clock. In fact- I'm going in that direction now. I bought the R26- a very good dac, but obviously not the last word out there and I just purchased the After Dark OXCO 10 mhz clock.

Yes, just saying there is a real objective reason to explain to your experience.
It has been my experience too that clocks are a critical aspect of DA conversion, as important or possibly even more important than the converter itself.

If you are capable of DIY you might be interested in Well Audio stuff, they have design some very high performance audio rate clocks (5.6448 MHz and 6.144MHz) so no clock synthesis adding jitter, with a sophisticated interface and DAC designed to get best performance out of them.
I'm strongly considering investing but going to leave it for while till more people get their hands on it and any potential kinks are ironed out.
All in all it is a lot cheaper than commercial DACs, about €1500 for a full system, hopefully with better sound but a lot of DIY involved.

Check out Well Audio DRIXO (-155dB@10Hz,) compared to After Dark OCXO highest grade (-145dB@10Hz, higher noise floor), keeping in mind DRIXO finished board is about €400 or even less if you build yourself... The value is insane, I don't understand how more people are not talking about it, must be the DIY barrier