GUSTARD DAC-R26 Balanced Decoder R2R+1Bit Dual Native Decoding Music Bridge

[winged creature]

Any news when firmware update will include tidal connect?

 

[camrector]

Thats a misleading way to look at the LSB processing accuracy for a R2R DAC.

Look at linearity if you want to understand the ladder processing ability.

I did say that this was a very big topic but Ok
So 103db we begin to lose linearity 1db=6bits 103/6=17.16bit

Yes I wasn’t getting into the MSB/LSB.
The resistors of any R2R dac limit resolution. To have a 24 bit R-2R DAC you are looking at 2 to the power of 24 possible output levels. You will need resistors matched to 0.00001%, and the voltages driving the resistors stable and matched to similar accuracy.
If we use a 5V reference(like our R26) the LSB would represent 1.16 nano-volt.
So that’s not happening anywhere.
The best resistors we have now are .005%. That gives at best 14bit resolution.
The DAC power supply is going to mask the LSB if the peak-to-peak noise is not less than the voltage of the LSB.
The best ultra low-noise power regulators have about 5uV of peak-to-peak noise.
20-bit LSB noise floor voltage is 4.75uV
24bit LSB noise floor voltage is 0.3uV


So yeah to sum it all up I don’t think any R2R Dac is capable of 16bit output resolution.

 

[rockcity007]

I've had a Gustard R26 burning in for a couple of months now on some temporary gear but haven't done any critical listening per se due to a major home remodel. I'm getting around to hooking up my more permanent gear this week with my speakers arriving on Wednesday. I have learned a lot here on this thread about the R26 but I am still pretty confused about streaming digital music in general. I will only be using the R26 as a steamer listening to Tidal via Bubble UPNP. No HQPlayer, no Roon (at this point), no mesh network, (hard wired LAN), no i2s and I just want to keep it relatively cheap & simple. With so many people on the site who really know what they are doing, I was wondering if you might help me better understand how to go about setting things up?

I can go into a little more detail of what I'm looking for help with (such as which route to go with fmc's, eg: Amazon generic, SGC offerings or the Finisair products that are spoken of here). I also have an older Netgear moden/router combo unit and my download speed is presently 200 Mbps, but some here speak of a minimum speed of 500 Mbps where I have read elsewhere that you only need speeds of 20 Mbps to listen to lossless music on-line. But I don't want to tie up this thread on my personal issues. Maybe another thread?

 

[BShaw]

Hey Rock -- 200mb is more than enough to stream hi rez.
If you're going the FMC route, you've probab;y already read up here enough to make you dizzy, and I'd also refer you to the sticky on the first post of this thread. FWIW, for me the Finisair ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/125418199525 ) at $24 for 10 meters was a no brainer and a definite step up from the previous multimode fiber I had before it. As for linear power supplies, if you want to go cheap, get a Jameco Reliapro for $25 for the DAC end and call it done. I bought a LHY and moved the Jameco to the dirty side. I'm still trying to get my CD collection to sound as magical as my streamer set up. Speaking of streaming, check out JPlay, it's a UPnP app that blows bubble out of the water. I use it with Qobuz, not 100% sure if it does Tidal, but very soon there will be an update to the R26 which will include Tidal Connect; they've been earnestly working on it for a few months at least.
Sorry if that's TMI. just had a few minutes and thought I'd barf a few things out.

 

[Odezra]

Another review

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Nice that Amos have shown the DSD Ladder component and talked about the streamer + FMC.

@Currawong Thank you for the thorough review. Nice of you to explain different things.

 

[cobrabucket]

Another review

Good review. Glad you explored LAN, DSD etc, @Currawong. Probably the most thorough YT review yet. I can't speak for anyone except myself, but I am very satisfied with the R26 so far. Cheers!

 

[rockcity007]

Hey Rock -- 200mb is more than enough to stream hi rez.
If you're going the FMC route, you've probab;y already read up here enough to make you dizzy, and I'd also refer you to the sticky on the first post of this thread. FWIW, for me the Finisair ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/125418199525 ) at $24 for 10 meters was a no brainer and a definite step up from the previous multimode fiber I had before it. As for linear power supplies, if you want to go cheap, get a Jameco Reliapro for $25 for the DAC end and call it done. I bought a LHY and moved the Jameco to the dirty side. I'm still trying to get my CD collection to sound as magical as my streamer set up. Speaking of streaming, check out JPlay, it's a UPnP app that blows bubble out of the water. I use it with Qobuz, not 100% sure if it does Tidal, but very soon there will be an update to the R26 which will include Tidal Connect; they've been earnestly working on it for a few months at least.
Sorry if that's TMI. just had a few minutes and thought I'd barf a few things out.

Great advice BShaw, thanks for the advice and the link!

 

[duffer5]

Another review

Great review and super informative. In my humble opinion the R26 is the best "bang for the buck," on the market. I have tried Top tier Denafrips, Holo Audio and many $3k D/S DAC's in my system and while yes, when you get over $5k for a DAC there is superior audio differences from the sub $3k DAC's but the difference is so small with the R26 the I would rather spend the $1650(USD) on the R26 and invest the other monies in a high quality headphone amp, which I did with the Ferrum OOR / Hypsos. Simply, the R26 is not better than the Holo May / Spring, Denafrips Terminator but it is a VERY close second at a fraction of the cost.

 

[jake9_9]

Great review and super informative. In my humble opinion the R26 is the best "bang for the buck," on the market. I have tried Top tier Denafrips, Holo Audio and many $3k D/S DAC's in my system and while yes, when you get over $5k for a DAC there is superior audio differences from the sub $3k DAC's but the difference is so small with the R26 the I would rather spend the $1650(USD) on the R26 and invest the other monies in a high quality headphone amp, which I did with the Ferrum OOR / Hypsos. Simply, the R26 is not better than the Holo May / Spring, Denafrips Terminator but it is a VERY close second at a fraction of the cost.

Just the advice I was looking for. I can now comfortably look for a "used" R26 without worry for buyer's remorse regarding DAC performance. Thx!

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

I also have an older Netgear moden/router combo unit and my download speed is presently 200 Mbps, but some here speak of a minimum speed of 500 Mbps where I have read elsewhere that you only need speeds of 20 Mbps to listen to lossless music on-line.

Audio File Size Calculator

Even if you play a 5.1 channel 32bit PCM768 audio you're still below the 20MB/s mark.

 

[DeckHiFi]

Audio File Size Calculator

Even if you play a 5.1 channel 32bit PCM768 audio you're still below the 20MB/s mark.

Thanks! I just purchased some cat6 cables to go from my mesh unit, but I realize I didn't need the speed necessarily. I also chose the color I wanted, ha.

 

[Alenotta]

Love the detail @Currawong puts into his reviews. I weirdly prefer the USB with the Audioquest Carbon cable. The detail is a little less than streaming directly to Roon, but I've found streaming tidal via the Carbon warms things up and brings up the mid-bass. Not sure why, but I tend to enjoy it more that way.

 

[Nada]

I don’t think any R2R Dac is capable of 16bit output resolution.

Thats incorrect. You need to be a bit careful making a habit of coming out with definitive statements that are just wrong and can mislead beginners.

For anyone wanting to look into this check out the data. Linearity plots and 16bit to 24bit FFTs show the resolving power of a R2R.

Dan Lavry many decades ago worked out how to compensate for resistor drift so R2R are not limited by resistor specs.

 

[sajunky]

Thats incorrect. You need to be a bit careful making a habit of coming out with definitive statements that are just wrong and can mislead beginners.

For anyone wanting to look into this check out the data. Linearity plots and 16bit to 24bit FFTs show the resolving power of a R2R.

It was correct. You need to be more careful [...], especially when trying to correct others.

What you see on the FFT is an averaged result over thousands samples, not a repeated accuracy figure. Those who talk about ladder compensation use rather error randomisaton technique. A prime example is Holo Audio DAC. By adding a wide spectrum noise to a music, ladder errors are shifted up and down on every clock cycle. Analyser will record averaged result giving perfect plot.

It is not what we hear. Unfortunately our ears register temporary values. With ultrasonic scrambling (otherwise called dithering), details are blurred. Similar effect to the noise shaping in Delta-Sigma algorithm and it improves measurement results the exactly same way. Dithering is a known technique that helps removing quantisation errors following data processing. It must be applied wisely, but the amount that would linearize ladder errors far exceed optimum values that would bring improvements to the sound quality. Unfortunately some vendors use measurements for a marketing purpose, sound quality is a secondary target. It is why I use word 'scrambling'.