[Jake2]

Yeah, i used LAN and i2s before optical but after i watched a video from Rob Watts about the benefits of optical, i thought i give it a shot and what can i say, optical in my setup is better that LAN and i2s.
I must mention that my setup consists of:

SU-6 DDC -> optical -> R26
Roon Core -> sfp to optical -> SOTM sNH-10G
Internet Modem -> sfp to optical -> SOTM SNH-10G

LHY OCK 2-> Gustard C2 -> R26
LHY OCK 2 -> Gustard C2 -> SOTM sNH-10G

To summ up, all connections are full optical, from the internet modem into the SOTM switch and from DDC into the DAC, no copper wire at all besides the Gustard C2 50 Ohm BNC cables.

Optical into R26 makes a difference, it is not night and day but imo it is better than i2s and LAN.

Side note: i am doing only 2x oversampling because the mosfets of a R2R DAC can not keep up with the fast switching of a multitude of oversampling and can cause distortion.

Damn - you've gone full optical/fibre there. Nice setup, very cool and interesting to hear your results, including use of Toslink into the R26. I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of s/pdif coax vs I2S from my U18 but I'll be honest and say I've not tried Toslink for anything other than TV/Netflix into the R26.

A few questions:
- is your SU-6 connected to your Roon Core via USB?
- the connections for the R26 LAN/internal renderer opton you compared to - I presume that was largely as above sans the SU-6 but with ethernet from the SOTM to the R26?
- do you notice much difference with the connection of the OCK-2 to the SOTM?
- are you tempted to get a DDC with master clock in?

 

[mgsu]

Damn - you've gone full optical/fibre there. Nice setup, very cool and interesting to hear your results, including use of Toslink into the R26. I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of s/pdif coax vs I2S from my U18 but I'll be honest and say I've not tried Toslink for anything other than TV/Netflix into the R26.

A few questions:
- is your SU-6 connected to your Roon Core via USB?
- the connections for the R26 LAN/internal renderer opton you compared to - I presume that was largely as above sans the SU-6 but with ethernet from the SOTM to the R26?
- do you notice much difference with the connection of the OCK-2 to the SOTM?
- are you tempted to get a DDC with master clock in?

Su-6 -> roon core is a usb connection, there are no other possibilities

The connection into the R26 without the SU-6 in play was previously done from the SOTM via LAN cable into the R26. Keep in mind that the Sotm is a very good switch and the optical connection from SU-6 was still better whilst the SOTM was powered by a Hypsos and clocked by OCK-2

Tbh, LHY OCK2 makes not much difference in my setup because all my gear is plugged into a Niagara 3000 power filter. It is only a asumption because i haven't done any AB comparisons. I only came to this assumption because i red that the LHY makes a lot of difference in your setups because i didn't read from you that you have any power filtering in play.

 

[Jake2]

Su-6 -> roon core is a usb connection, there are no other possibilities

The connection into the R26 without the SU-6 in play was previously done from the SOTM via LAN cable into the R26. Keep in mind that the Sotm is a very good switch and the optical connection from SU-6 was still better

Tbh, LHY OCK2 makes not much difference in my setup because all my gear is plugged into a Niagara 3000 power filter. It is only a asumption because i haven't done any AB comparisons. I only came to this assumption because i red that the LHY makes a lot of difference in your setups because i didn't read from you that you have any power filtering in play.

Thanks for the clarifications. Re power filtration I've found improvements from small affordable grounding boxes to be independent from and additive to toggling the R26 external clock on/off. I have read a lot about the importance of quality power so have a Puritan PSM156 en route (shout out to @m-i-c-k-e-y ) which I am eagerly anticipating. It will be really interesting to hear its effect on different components.

 

[Odezra]

Thanks for the clarifications. Re power filtration I've found improvements from small affordable grounding boxes to be independent from and additive to toggling the R26 external clock on/off. I have read a lot about the importance of quality power so have a Puritan PSM156 en route (shout out to @m-i-c-k-e-y ) which I am eagerly anticipating. It will be really interesting to hear its effect on different components.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on that.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

On my setup indeed SU-6 DDC -> Optical -> DAC is a tad better than Lan.

Until Lan ->FMC -> DAC came in.

@Jake2 Welcome fellow Puritan user!

 

[mgsu]

Thanks for the clarifications. Re power filtration I've found improvements from small affordable grounding boxes to be independent from and additive to toggling the R26 external clock on/off. I have read a lot about the importance of quality power so have a Puritan PSM156 en route (shout out to @m-i-c-k-e-y ) which I am eagerly anticipating. It will be really interesting to hear its effect on different components.

Puritan PSM165 is also a very good power filter. Good buy!

 

[mgsu]

On my setup indeed SU-6 DDC -> Optical -> DAC is a tad better than Lan.

Until Lan ->FMC -> DAC came in.

@Jake2 Welcome fellow Puritan user!

Great to hear!

Just a side note to all: SU-6 needs about 20-30 min to stabilize the clocks. Dont expect wonders by doing a quick AB test.

 

[Deleeh]

Yeah, i used LAN and i2s before optical but after i watched a video from Rob Watts about the benefits of optical, i thought i give it a shot and what can i say, optical in my setup is better that LAN and i2s.
I must mention that my setup consists of:

SU-6 DDC -> optical -> R26
Roon Core -> sfp to optical -> SOTM sNH-10G
Internet Modem -> sfp to optical -> SOTM SNH-10G

LHY OCK 2-> Gustard C2 -> R26
LHY OCK 2 -> Gustard C2 -> SOTM sNH-10G

To summ up, all connections are full optical, from the internet modem into the SOTM switch and from DDC into the DAC, no copper wire at all besides the Gustard C2 50 Ohm BNC cables.

Optical into R26 makes a difference, it is not night and day but imo it is better than i2s and LAN.

Side note: i am doing only 2x oversampling because the mosfets of a R2R DAC can not keep up with the fast switching of a multitude of oversampling and can cause distortion.

16x oversampling has not benefits to me also from a logic standpoint. As an analogy imagine you have a picture with 48 pixels. By blowing the picture up to 768 pixels does not help with recognizing more details in the picture at all.

I looked at the SOTM sNH-10G and your setup is impressive.
Funny you mention the 3000 Niagara, I have the Powerquest 3 in the chain where it is considered a pre-stage to the Niagara.
Had indeed fixed one or the other thing on the power side.

The SOTM sNH-10G makes a solid impression which version did you buy back then?
I might keep that in mind if I ever have any money left over .

Unfortunately I don't have anything to test the optical output on the R26.
Otherwise I would have tried it.
If I had bought the Su6 instead of the Su2, it would have been possible.

I share the same opinion regarding oversampling.
I go to 32/96 via Lan or I2S and find there's another difference between 16/24 and 96 or more Khz.

It just stays soft as necessary and hard enough in the upper ends, and in general it sounds fuller and more resolving.
I can hardly hear any difference above 96 khz, not even between 24 and 32 bit.
Between 16 and 24 is more like it.

Fostex once did a study where they found that 32/96 offers the best resolution and imaging than anything below.
That's why they equipped the Hp A8 with 32/96.
Which raised quite a few questions from the trade press.

 

[mgsu]

I looked at the SOTM sNH-10G and your setup is impressive.
Funny you mention the 3000 Niagara, I have the Powerquest 3 in the chain where it is considered a pre-stage to the Niagara.
Had indeed fixed one or the other thing on the power side.

The SOTM sNH-10G makes a solid impression which version did you buy back then?
I might keep that in mind if I ever have any money left over .

Unfortunately I don't have anything to test the optical output on the R26.
Otherwise I would have tried it.
If I had bought the Su6 instead of the Su2, it would have been possible.

I share the same opinion regarding oversampling.
I go to 32/96 via Lan or I2S and find there's another difference between 16/24 and 96 or more Khz.

It just stays soft as necessary and hard enough in the upper ends, and in general it sounds fuller and more resolving.
I can hardly hear any difference above 96 khz, not even between 24 and 32 bit.
Between 16 and 24 is more like it.

Fostex once did a study where they found that 32/96 offers the best resolution and imaging than anything below.
That's why they equipped the Hp A8 with 32/96.
Which raised quite a few questions from the trade press.

I have the maxed out version of the Sotm with all possible upgrades and 50 Ohm clock input powered by a hypsos psu

On the topic of upsampling i agree and experienced the same as you mentioned while staying below 96 kHz, Music sounds rounder, more analog to me.
As mentioned in my previous post i am doing only 2x upsampling while using tidal, this means 88,2 kHz

Most people are using the wrong upsmapling settings in roon. You must select upsmapling "to the power of 2" in roon,
When u use max upsmapling then roon upsamples 44,1 to 96 kHz which not bitperfect.

 

[Jake2]

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on that.

Will do. It seems to be taking forever to get built in the UK with Aus/NZ sockets. I've decided to go all in and add a Puritan Ground Master to it to use with its own dedicated copper ground rod (or rods plural if I go really all in) for which I'll need to find a spot in the garden somewhere.

 

[mgsu]

Will do. It seems to be taking forever to get built in the UK with Aus/NZ sockets. I've decided to go all in and add a Puritan Ground Master to it to use with its own dedicated copper ground rod (or rods plural if I go really all in) for which I'll need to find a spot in the garden somewhere.

Does the ground rod not cause ground loops?

 

[Jake2]

Does the ground rod not cause ground loops?

I can't see how it would. Probably need to explain how the PSM Ground Master setup works. Appreciate this is a bit OT (to put it mildly) but hopefully of mild interest to some... will try to keep it short. The PSM conditioners have a ground connection (the green banana socket) you attach to the Ground Master which contains high pass filters to pass only high frequency noise above 50/60hz to its separate ground connection to ensure that dangerous high current AC mains frequency power is safely earthed only via the house's earthing system. If you plugged all your components into the PSM they'd effectively be 'star earthed' to the PSM with HF frequency noise on the house mains or earth lines (whether residual after the PSM's filtering for attached devices - or generated from other devices attached elsewhere to the house mains) grounded via the GM to its separate ground rod. (Yes that's me trying to keep it short! )

 

[Nada]

video from Rob Watts

Just be aware commercial factors can make for some highly biased and controversial views. Id suggest trusting your ears first and unbiased users and reviewers next.

mosfets of a R2R DAC can not keep up with the fast switching

What mosfets are you talking about?

16x oversampling has not benefits to me also from a logic standpoint.

There are different rationals that can be applied to NOS vs OS and OS rates. It depends on the OS filters and the DAC. It may be that rates around 96kHz offer the best compromise between filter slopes, impulse response and settling time/distortion for some DACs.

Optical into R26 makes a difference,

TOSLINK SPDIF optical gives total electrical isolation. If you use TOSLINK anything upstream becomes redundant if the DAC has good reclocking. So a $50 USB to TOSLINK from any old source is good to go. Or a WIFI to TOSLINK streamer.

You will get flack saying TOSLINK jitter is horrendous. But jitter is dependent on the DAC processing. A good PLL in a DAC is impervious to TOSLINK jitter as revealed by Stereophile data.

 

[Odezra]

Maybe I missed this in the english version but thought these two features on the R26 were interesting from the Chinese Manual

IIS Input format support: PCM 16-32bit/44.1-768kHz; DSD DOP64 -DOP256;

NATIVE DSD: DSD64-DSD512 . [DSD1024: @ DSD direct mode, theoretical
value ]

BT Bluetooth 5.0 Input format support: PCM LDAC, AAC, SBC, APTX, APTX LL, APTX HD
High-frequency encoding, LDAC can realize 24B/96K high-code
transmission

Has anyone attempted DSD1024 via I2S? Would be interesting to know whether the Holo Red or SU-6 can achieve this.

Also thought 24b/96k LDAC files was a nice fallback if ever needed.

 

[mgsu]

IIS Input format support: PCM 16-32bit/44.1-768kHz; DSD DOP64 -DOP256;

NATIVE DSD: DSD64-DSD512 . [DSD1024: @ DSD direct mode, theoretical
value ]

BT Bluetooth 5.0 Input format support: PCM LDAC, AAC, SBC, APTX, APTX LL, APTX HD
High-frequency encoding, LDAC can realize 24B/96K high-code
transmission

Has anyone attempted DSD1024 via I2S? Would be interesting to know whether the Holo Red or SU-6 can achieve this.

Also thought 24b/96k LDAC files was a nice fallback if ever needed.

Holo Red can support up to DSD512 and PCM768K by I2S. USB is limited by linux kernel and also support DSD512 and PCM768K right now, new kernel will support DSD1024 and PCM1536K in future release.

SU-6 can do DSD512 and PCM768 over I2S