[Lamim Rashid]

My coupler arrived today! An IEC60318-4 type E610A Occluded Ear Simulator I bought off aliexpress from "college shop store", now 72.68 USD for the next few days, the cheapest I could find on ali for a genuine iec711 coupler (link here). Just waiting on them to send me the calibration file. I have around 10~20 IEMs (depending on how many I feel like doing) that I already own slated to get re-reviewed more formally, this time with measurements.

Well guys I was bored, so I bring to you guys two new head to heads comparing offerings from BGVP to GS Audio's ST line IEMs. Why? Cause they both use all Knowles and Sonion drivers, so it will be easy for me to find aliexpress costs. The two models I will be comparing the are the DM7 to ST6(A/B) and DM8 to ST8B because they have similar prices, four way crossovers and driver counts. As for why I'm doing this? I was just curious which company used more expensive driver configurations because the common opinion is that GS Audio has closer to cost IEMs because they are an OEM/ODM company, so let's see how they stack up against an old and fairly well known brand like BGVP and their newest BA offerings. I will be using soundlink again for price sourcing, pls note that these manufacturers probably get these drivers a bit cheaper in bulk.

The first comparison is the closest one, both these 6 BA iems cost around $290. The difference between the ST6A and ST6B seems to be that the B model uses another Sonion 23 series driver for high frequencies instead of the Knowles TWFK driver.

GS Audio ST6A/B
2 * Sonion 38 Series for Lows - around $24-45 per dual (source)
2 * Sonion 37 Series for Lows - around $23 per dual (source)
1 * Sonion 23 Series for Mids- $19 for dual, $11 for a single (source)
1 * Knowles TWFK Series for Highs - 3 different models available ranging from $22-26 (source)
ST6A Estimated BA cost (per ear): $80-$105
ST6B Estimated BA cost (per ear): $66-$87

BGVP DM7
1 * Knowles CI-22955 for Lows - around $12 each (source)
2 * Sonion 33AP007 for Mid-Low - around $16 per dual (source)
1 * Knowles ED-29689 for Mid-High - around $8 each (source)
2 * Knowles SWFK-31376 for Highs - around $19 per dual (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $55

It does look like the use of a TWFK driver for high range drives up the ST6A driver cost more than the ST6B but I could only find pricing for dual twfk drivers, I assume the singles cost a bit less, probably around 30-40% less than a dual. This would put the estimated costs ST6A costs closer to the ST6B by not by much, and this still puts both models above the DM7 cost by a bit. ST6A also looks like it has much better treble extension in the manufacturer provided graphs.

Now we compare the $350 DM8 to the $330 ST8B.

GS Audio ST8B
2 * Sonion 38 Series for Lows - around $24-45 per dual (source)
2 * Sonion 37 Series for Lows - around $23 per dual (source)
4 * Knowles TWFK Series for Highs - 3 different dual models available ranging from $22-26 (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $91-$120

BGVP DM8
2 * Sonion 38D1XJ007 for Lows - around $45 per dual (source)
1 * Sonion 2354 for Mids - around $12 each (source)
1 * Knowles RAF-32873 for Mids - around $5 each (source)
2 * Knowles TWFK-30017 for Highs - around $22 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles SWFK-31736 for Ultra High Frequency - around $19 per dual (source)

Estimated BA cost (per ear): $103

This one is a lot closer than I expected. Hard to tell which one is the better value proposition without knowing the exact drivers GS audio is using. I've asked them to provide me these details and they said they would get back to me about it but they seem to have forgotten. If they are using the same Sonion drivers for bass as the DM8 than the ST8B is a clearer winner here given the $20 cheaper price tag, but otherwise the DM8 might have a slight edge, depending on what TWFK drivers were used in the ST8B.

So far in all the comparisons I've tried here the GS Audio has more or less been close to other similarly priced IEMs, guesstimated value wise at least, with perhaps a slight edge overall but it's too close within margin of error to know for sure.

On another note.. did you guys miss these comparisons? No, probably not, these are pretty pointless and not really that useful. But still, it's fun getting a glimpse at what the manufacturing costs might be for some of these iems (minus the cost of R&D, skilled labor, and the other unknown components that make up an iem which is why this isnt that useful). So here's yet another driver configuration value comparison that nobody asked for. Today I will be revisiting the ST8B because it has in my opinion the most attractive looking graph next to the GT12X (which would be too hard to compare to anything since I have no idea how much those off brand twfk drivers cost). So I noticed there were a lot of very expensive IEMs in the couple hundred dollar to kilobuck range with similar all knowles/sonion 8 BA configurations. I wanted to see if I could find similarly configured iems and see how much their BA setups cost to put into perspective how much more (or less) other companies charge vs their driver costs.

I choose the ST8B not only cause it has a nice looking graph but also because I'm under the assumption since this is their "flagship" S line up that they are using higher quality components and arent skimping out anywhere to cut corners since I'll be assuming the other iems I compare it to are the same way given their large price tags. This should hopefully keep quality and cost differences outside of driver choice to a minimum. I'll be using the same comparison format as last time, and some source for comparing BA pricing. So who are the contenders? Let me tell you, it was hard finding more high end expensive IEMs with the drivers used listed, surprise surprise. I guess they want to keep that information in a blackbox to not take away from their product's percieved value, I mean how would you feel knowing your $1000 iems has the same drivers in iems you can get for half or less that cost? It was either that or they were using more special custom drivers that you can't just look up on ali to find the value. Either way I really appreciate the companies that are actually transparent about these kinds of details, feels less like they're trying to market expensive marked up snake oil to you (which they may very well be doing). I was able to find at least a rough description of the drivers in use for the Fearless Audio S8z, Kinera Odin 2.0 and HiFi Boy OE8. I've also included a few bonus comparisons in the Fiio FA9, Fearless Audio HyperS, NF Audio NE4 and GT12X. I wanted to include the S8P/S8F but they dont list the actual models, but it does say that they use 4* sonion bass drivers and 4* knowles drivers for the rest of the range, a really similar configuration to the ST8B so I assume the cost might be around the same. The Fearless audio comparisons will be really interesting because it's been rumored that GS audio has manufactured some IEMs for them in the past, are we possibly getting fearless audio quality for a lower cost? (*I also included black friday/cyber monday sale prices in brackets where applicable)

GS Audio ST8B - 330 USD
2 * Sonion 38 Series for Lows - around $24-45 per dual (source)
2 * Sonion 37 Series for Lows - around $23 per dual (source)
4 * Knowles TWFK Series for Highs - 3 different dual models available ranging from $22-26 (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $91-$120

Fearless Audio S8Z - 590 USD (530 USD on sale)
2 * Sonion 37 Series for Lows - around $23 per dual (source)
4 * Sonion 23 Series for Mids - around $19 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles SWFK Series for Highs - 5 different dual models available ranging from $16-24 (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $77-$85
The S8Z configuration is a lot more similar to how GS audio configures their all BA iems. GS Audio also seems a lot more careful (compared to other manufacturers) not to skimp on the low frequency drivers when budgeting for their all BA configurations which is nice to see.

Kinera Odin 2.0 - 850 USD (730 USD on sale)
4 * Sonion 33AJ007J/9 for Lows - around $19 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles ED-29689 for Mids - around $8 per single (source) Fun fact: this driver is the same driver used in the Etymotics ER4P/B/S and Westone UM2
2 * Knowles SWFK-31736 for Highs - around $19 per dual (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $73

HiFi Boy OE8 - 900 USD
2 * Sonion 33AJ007J/9 for Lows - around $19 per dual (source)
2 * Sonion 37AP007 for Lows - around $23 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles ED-29689 for Mids - around $8 per single (source)
2 * Knowles SWFK-31736 for Highs - around $19 per dual (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $77
I find it funny that the Odin 2.0 and OE8 use almost the same configuration.

I won't lie, I wasn't expecting it to be this close. I expected the more expensive models here to have at least slightly more expensive configurations but I guess I was wrong. Unless the ST8B is using the more expensive 38 series BA drivers these are still pretty close enough in cost value for the driver choice not to matter outside of design and implementation reasons. However, considering how much these other IEMs cost to get new, the ST8B is starting to look like really good value. You're basically paying twice to thrice as much to get a similar quality configuration if you get any of these other IEMs.. and no I did not cherry pick them to make the ST8B look better, these (and the ones below) were literally the only ones I could find on linsoul in that upper price bracket that is A, not using custom drivers that I cant find on ali and B, actually had their BA driver models listed. I guess you're paying extra for the R&D, tuning, design, implementation, and skilled labor? Though I'm not sure if these IEMs are even worth those larger price tags since I would expect GS Audio's flagship line to be pretty decent in these categories too. I guess if any of GS Audio's offerings fit your taste tuning wise you've got yourself some very good bang for the buck options. I also find it funny that the Odin 2.0 and OE8 use almost the same configuration.

Here are some bonus comparisons. I managed to find a few other all BA sets with their actual drivers listed in the upper price bracket, thought they would be fun to investigate too.

Fiio FA9 - 500 USD (350 USD on sale)
2 * Knowles HODVTEC-31618 for lows - around $20 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles EJ-33877 - ???? couldn't find anything, these are custom made for Fiio, I bet somewhere around $20 per dual, or at most $40
2 * Knowles SWFK-31736 for Highs - around $19 per dual (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $60-$80?
Honestly, just completely ignore this one cause I have no idea what those custom drivers might cost.

NF Audio NE4 - 750 USD (674 USD on sale)
1 * Knowles CI-22955 for Lows - around $12 per single (source)
1 * Knowles ED-29689 for Mids - around $8 per single (source)
2 * Knowles SWFK-31736 for Highs - around $19 per dual (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $39
*The faceplates change the sound and impedance, I guess this is where all of the manufacturing budget went?

Fearless Audio HyperS12 - 900 USD (810 USD on sale)
4 * Sonion 33AJ007J/9 for Lows - around $19 per dual (source)
2 * Sonion 37AP007 for Lows - around $23 per dual (source)
4 * Knowles TWFK Series for Highs - 3 different dual models available ranging from $22-26 (source)
2 * Knowles PSWFK Series for Ultra Highs - 5 different dual models available ranging from $16-24 (source)?
Couldn't find anything called PSWFK, either a typo or custom driver I'm guessing
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $121-$137?

GS Audio GT12X - 252 USD (currently 242 USD cause of listing issues)
2 * Sonion 38 Series for Lows - around $24-45 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles 31 Series for Lows - around $20 per dual (source)
8 * Clone TWFK Series for Highs - **these were hard to find, but they're around $5 a dual on taobao (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $64-$85
**Estimated BA cost (per ear) if it had real Knowles TWFK: $132-$169

Nothing substantial enough to really be learned from these extra. The FA9 seems overpriced when it's not on sale, but who knows, maybe it's at least worth the sale price if the tuning and those custom drivers are good enough. The NE4.. well, straight up seems like a bad deal unless that NF tuning and those resistance plates are really worth it to you. The HyperS/S12 seems like the most expensive configuration of the bunch, but it's also $900 to buy, $810 on sale. The GT12X is one of the cheaper configurations here but only cause it uses clone drivers, using real knowles would have made it one of the most expensive configurations here, so we can see why they opted for the off brand stuff, would be interesting if it could deliver sound close to genuine knowles stuff, since that would make it punch way above it's weight.

My other comparisons:
Mangird tea, GS Audio SD7, ThieAudio Voyager 3, and GS Audio ST3 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gs-audio-impressions-thread.958443/page-62#post-16629922
GS Audio ST6A/B, BGVP DM7, GS Audio ST8B, BGVP DM8 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gs-audio-impressions-thread.958443/page-68#post-16645347

After all these comparisons, it doesnt make sense to me to spend so much for all BA iems (unless they have something unique maybe, like good custom drivers) when you have so many similar quality options for half or even a third of the price.. and not just from GS Audio. I think the mangird tea, DM8 and maybe the FA9 at sale price are good examples of this, especially when compared to the likes of the S8Z, Odin 2.0, OE8, NE4 and non-sale price FA9 (lol). There are probably a lot of way overpriced IEMs that are marked up and just as good as some of the cheaper options, so it's no wonder that a lot of these more expensive IEMs have their actual driver configuration kept secret. Of course tuning and implementation is very important, but you can find good tuning at any price range since it doesn't really cost extra to have a specific tuning, assuming the same drivers and components are used. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of us trick ourselves into thinking something sounds better just cause it is more expensive, myself and some popular reviewers included.

I think it's a matter of finding which iems are well tuned, fit your tuning preference/sound taste, and well designed without charging a ton more for the same drivers and componentry you can find in cheaper iems. Luckily it's becoming easier and easier to find potentially good iems for yourself year by year as more and more iems get pumped out, as technology advances, and becomes cheaper and as manufacturers become more experienced at designing iems and implementing them. It already blows my mind that you can get potentially as good as if not better IEMs at a third to half the price of those $600-$900 IEMs.. At this point I think we need to start killing the stigma that spending $300-$600 more than what you can get around $300 gets you way better IEMs. It's a silly notion, and you're more likely to end up buying over-hyped snake oil than not, possibly even paying more to get less than what's available in lower price brackets, though I do understand that there will be some outliers that might be worth their skin in the game. It's just becoming a matter of finding a tuning you like out of the best IEMs available to us at around $300, just gotta do your research. Ideally, just figure out what you like with cheaper iems then find something you like that fits the bill without breaking the bank unless you got money to blow.

Edit: Another bonus cause I'm bored. The Fiio FH3 vs GS Audio SD3, in light of the new eclipse version of the FH3 coming out soon (which should use the same drivers as the original). The SD3 is $30 less at $120, and both are 2+1 hybrid configs. No idea how much the DD costs in either, but beryllium plated dd in hybrids tend to be pretty cheap anyways and I doubt that the one gs audio uses is very expensive (though im sure it's decent enough since the same dd gets used even in their most premium iems).

GS Audio SD3
1 * DD for Lows
1 * Knowles CI-22955 for Lows - around $12 each (source)
1 * Sonion 23 Series for Mids/Highs- $11 for a single (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $23

Fiio FH3
1 * DD for Lows
1 * Knowles ED-30262 for Mids - around $15 (source / alt)
1 * Knowles RAD-33518 for Highs - around $5 each (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $20

Sadly the SD3 is tuned way too hot imo, so it's probably not worth the extra $30 saved unless you like a lot of gain in the presence region, and that's just compared to the regular FH3. The crin tuned one may be even better tuned.

GS audio.. please give us something like this:

A SD3B or SD3X variant or something like that with this kind of tuning would be amazing, especially if it gets the newer and supposedly better DD they're apparently going to have in some of their upcoming iems.

 

[RikudouGoku]

My coupler arrived today! An IEC60318-4 type E610A Occluded Ear Simulator I bought off aliexpress from "college shop store", now 72.68 USD for the next few days, the cheapest I could find on ali for a genuine iec711 coupler (link here). Just waiting on them to send me the calibration file. I have around 10~20 IEMs (depending on how many I feel like doing) that I already own slated to get re-reviewed more formally, this time with measurements.

That coupler is actually a clone. Not genuine. Thats the one most reviewers (including me) are using.

 

[mndless]

My coupler arrived today! An IEC60318-4 type E610A Occluded Ear Simulator I bought off aliexpress from "college shop store", now 72.68 USD for the next few days, the cheapest I could find on ali for a genuine iec711 coupler (link here). Just waiting on them to send me the calibration file. I have around 10~20 IEMs (depending on how many I feel like doing) that I already own slated to get re-reviewed more formally, this time with measurements.


On another note.. did you guys miss these comparisons? No, probably not, these are pretty pointless and not really that useful. But still, it's fun getting a glimpse at what the manufacturing costs might be for some of these iems (minus the cost of R&D, skilled labor, and the other unknown components that make up an iem which is why this isnt that useful). So here's yet another driver configuration value comparison that nobody asked for. Today I will be revisiting the ST8B because it has in my opinion the most attractive looking graph next to the GT12X (which would be too hard to compare to anything since I have no idea how much those off brand twfk drivers cost). So I noticed there were a lot of very expensive IEMs in the couple hundred dollar to kilobuck range with similar all knowles/sonion 8 BA configurations. I wanted to see if I could find similarly configured iems and see how much their BA setups cost to put into perspective how much more (or less) other companies charge vs their driver costs.

I choose the ST8B not only cause it has a nice looking graph but also because I'm under the assumption since this is their "flagship" S line up that they are using higher quality components and arent skimping out anywhere to cut corners since I'll be assuming the other iems I compare it to are the same way given their large price tags. This should hopefully keep quality and cost differences outside of driver choice to a minimum. I'll be using the same comparison format as last time, and some source for comparing BA pricing. So who are the contenders? Let me tell you, it was hard finding more high end expensive IEMs with the drivers used listed, surprise surprise. I guess they want to keep that information in a blackbox to not take away from their product's percieved value, I mean how would you feel knowing your $1000 iems has the same drivers in iems you can get for half or less that cost? It was either that or they were using more special custom drivers that you can't just look up on ali to find the value. Either way I really appreciate the companies that are actually transparent about these kinds of details, feels less like they're trying to market expensive marked up snake oil to you (which they may very well be doing). I was able to find at least a rough description of the drivers in use for the Fearless Audio S8z, Kinera Odin 2.0 and HiFi Boy OE8. I've also included a few bonus comparisons in the Fiio FA9, Fearless Audio HyperS, NF Audio NE4 and GT12X. I wanted to include the S8P/S8F but they dont list the actual models, but it does say that they use 4* sonion bass drivers and 4* knowles drivers for the rest of the range, a really similar configuration to the ST8B so I assume the cost might be around the same. The Fearless audio comparisons will be really interesting because it's been rumored that GS audio has manufactured some IEMs for them in the past, are we possibly getting fearless audio quality for a lower cost? (*I also included black friday/cyber monday sale prices in brackets where applicable)

GS Audio ST8B - 330 USD
2 * Sonion 38 Series for Lows - around $24-45 per dual (source)
2 * Sonion 37 Series for Lows - around $23 per dual (source)
4 * Knowles TWFK Series for Highs - 3 different dual models available ranging from $22-26 (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $91-$120

Fearless Audio S8Z - 590 USD (530 USD on sale)
2 * Sonion 37 Series for Lows - around $23 per dual (source)
4 * Sonion 23 Series for Mids - around $19 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles SWFK Series for Highs - 5 different dual models available ranging from $16-24 (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $77-$85
The S8Z configuration is a lot more similar to how GS audio configures their all BA iems. GS Audio also seems a lot more careful (compared to other manufacturers) not to skimp on the low frequency drivers when budgeting for their all BA configurations which is nice to see.

Kinera Odin 2.0 - 850 USD (730 USD on sale)
4 * Sonion 33AJ007J/9 for Lows - around $19 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles ED-29689 for Mids - around $8 per single (source) Fun fact: this driver is the same driver used in the Etymotics ER4P/B/S and Westone UM2
2 * Knowles SWFK-31736 for Highs - around $19 per dual (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $73

HiFi Boy OE8 - 900 USD
2 * Sonion 33AJ007J/9 for Lows - around $19 per dual (source)
2 * Sonion 37AP007 for Lows - around $23 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles ED-29689 for Mids - around $8 per single (source)
2 * Knowles SWFK-31736 for Highs - around $19 per dual (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $77
I find it funny that the Odin 2.0 and OE8 use almost the same configuration.

I won't lie, I wasn't expecting it to be this close. I expected the more expensive models here to have at least slightly more expensive configurations but I guess I was wrong. Unless the ST8B is using the more expensive 38 series BA drivers these are still pretty close enough in cost value for the driver choice not to matter outside of design and implementation reasons. However, considering how much these other IEMs cost to get new, the ST8B is starting to look like really good value. You're basically paying twice to thrice as much to get a similar quality configuration if you get any of these other IEMs.. and no I did not cherry pick them to make the ST8B look better, these (and the ones below) were literally the only ones I could find on linsoul in that upper price bracket that is A, not using custom drivers that I cant find on ali and B, actually had their BA driver models listed. I guess you're paying extra for the R&D, tuning, design, implementation, and skilled labor? Though I'm not sure if these IEMs are even worth those larger price tags since I would expect GS Audio's flagship line to be pretty decent in these categories too. I guess if any of GS Audio's offerings fit your taste tuning wise you've got yourself some very good bang for the buck options. I also find it funny that the Odin 2.0 and OE8 use almost the same configuration.

Here are some bonus comparisons. I managed to find a few other all BA sets with their actual drivers listed in the upper price bracket, thought they would be fun to investigate too.

Fiio FA9 - 500 USD (350 USD on sale)
2 * Knowles HODVTEC-31618 for lows - around $20 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles EJ-33877 - ???? couldn't find anything, these are custom made for Fiio, I bet somewhere around $20 per dual, or at most $40
2 * Knowles SWFK-31736 for Highs - around $19 per dual (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $60-$80?
Honestly, just completely ignore this one cause I have no idea what those custom drivers might cost.

NF Audio NE4 - 750 USD (674 USD on sale)
1 * Knowles CI-22955 for Lows - around $12 per single (source)
1 * Knowles ED-29689 for Mids - around $8 per single (source)
2 * Knowles SWFK-31736 for Highs - around $19 per dual (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $39
*The faceplates change the sound and impedance, I guess this is where all of the manufacturing budget went?

Fearless Audio HyperS12 - 900 USD (810 USD on sale)
4 * Sonion 33AJ007J/9 for Lows - around $19 per dual (source)
2 * Sonion 37AP007 for Lows - around $23 per dual (source)
4 * Knowles TWFK Series for Highs - 3 different dual models available ranging from $22-26 (source)
2 * Knowles PSWFK Series for Ultra Highs - 5 different dual models available ranging from $16-24 (source)?
Couldn't find anything called PSWFK, either a typo or custom driver I'm guessing
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $121-$137?

GS Audio GT12X - 252 USD (currently 242 USD cause of listing issues)
2 * Sonion 38 Series for Lows - around $24-45 per dual (source)
2 * Knowles 31 Series for Lows - around $20 per dual (source)
8 * Clone TWFK Series for Highs - **these were hard to find, but they're around $5 a dual on taobao (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $64-$85
**Estimated BA cost (per ear) if it had real Knowles TWFK: $132-$169

Nothing substantial enough to really be learned from these extra. The FA9 seems overpriced when it's not on sale, but who knows, maybe it's at least worth the sale price if the tuning and those custom drivers are good enough. The NE4.. well, straight up seems like a bad deal unless that NF tuning and those resistance plates are really worth it to you. The HyperS/S12 seems like the most expensive configuration of the bunch, but it's also $900 to buy, $810 on sale. The GT12X is one of the cheaper configurations here but only cause it uses clone drivers, using real knowles would have made it one of the most expensive configurations here, so we can see why they opted for the off brand stuff, would be interesting if it could deliver sound close to genuine knowles stuff, since that would make it punch way above it's weight.

My other comparisons:
Mangird tea, GS Audio SD7, ThieAudio Voyager 3, and GS Audio ST3 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gs-audio-impressions-thread.958443/page-62#post-16629922
GS Audio ST6A/B, BGVP DM7, GS Audio ST8B, BGVP DM8 - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/gs-audio-impressions-thread.958443/page-68#post-16645347

After all these comparisons, it doesnt make sense to me to spend so much for all BA iems (unless they have something unique maybe, like good custom drivers) when you have so many similar quality options for half or even a third of the price.. and not just from GS Audio. I think the mangird tea, DM8 and maybe the FA9 at sale price are good examples of this, especially when compared to the likes of the S8Z, Odin 2.0, OE8, NE4 and non-sale price FA9 (lol). There are probably a lot of way overpriced IEMs that are marked up and just as good as some of the cheaper options, so it's no wonder that a lot of these more expensive IEMs have their actual driver configuration kept secret. Of course tuning and implementation is very important, but you can find good tuning at any price range since it doesn't really cost extra to have a specific tuning, assuming the same drivers and components are used. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of us trick ourselves into thinking something sounds better just cause it is more expensive, myself and some popular reviewers included.

I think it's a matter of finding which iems are well tuned, fit your tuning preference/sound taste, and well designed without charging a ton more for the same drivers and componentry you can find in cheaper iems. Luckily it's becoming easier and easier to find potentially good iems for yourself year by year as more and more iems get pumped out, as technology advances, and becomes cheaper and as manufacturers become more experienced at designing iems and implementing them. It already blows my mind that you can get potentially as good as if not better IEMs at a third to half the price of those $600-$900 IEMs.. At this point I think we need to start killing the stigma that spending $300-$600 more than what you can get around $300 gets you way better IEMs. It's a silly notion, and you're more likely to end up buying over-hyped snake oil than not, possibly even paying more to get less than what's available in lower price brackets, though I do understand that there will be some outliers that might be worth their skin in the game. It's just becoming a matter of finding a tuning you like out of the best IEMs available to us at around $300, just gotta do your research. Ideally, just figure out what you like with cheaper iems then find something you like that fits the bill without breaking the bank unless you got money to blow.

Edit: Another bonus cause I'm bored. The Fiio FH3 vs GS Audio SD3, in light of the new eclipse version of the FH3 coming out soon (which should use the same drivers as the original). The SD3 is $30 less at $120, and both are 2+1 hybrid configs. No idea how much the DD costs in either, but beryllium plated dd in hybrids tend to be pretty cheap anyways and I doubt that the one gs audio uses is very expensive (though im sure it's decent enough since the same dd gets used even in their most premium iems).

GS Audio SD3
1 * DD for Lows
1 * Knowles CI-22955 for Lows - around $12 each (source)
1 * Sonion 23 Series for Mids/Highs- $11 for a single (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $23

Fiio FH3
1 * DD for Lows
1 * Knowles ED-30262 for Mids - around $15 (source / alt)
1 * Knowles RAD-33518 for Highs - around $5 each (source)
Estimated BA cost (per ear): $20

Sadly the SD3 is tuned way too hot imo, so it's probably not worth the extra $30 saved unless you like a lot of gain in the presence region, and that's just compared to the regular FH3. The crin tuned one may be even better tuned.

GS audio.. please give us something like this:

A SD3B or SD3X variant or something like that with this kind of tuning would be amazing, especially if it gets the newer and supposedly better DD they're apparently going to have in some of their upcoming iems.

This is a great series of driver cost analysis. It's exciting to see where you're getting a particularly good deal for a set based on raw driver cost alone. Looks like GS, at least for the handful of models you've been able to perform this analysis on, are at worst similarly priced for their driver build, and at best are a significantly better deal compared to their competition. Of course, the value proposition is of relatively minor significance if the sound for the cheaper set isn't what you're looking for, but when it is, then it's just so gratifying to know you've gotten good value for your money.

 

[Lamim Rashid]

hat coupler is actually a clone. Not genuine. Thats the one most reviewers (including me) are using.

Yup, it's a clone, or just a cheap chinese coupler built off the same specs/standard (IEC 60318-4). From what I understand these are still pretty accurate up to 8k, it's just the factory calibration is usually pretty bad. I think there was a thread where a group of people were sending around a few iems to help with manual calibration. The cheaper ones with the plug in microphones also measure THD pretty poorly, the ones that come with a ICP prepolarized microphone are much better for this and more accurate, however they also cost significant more (250 usd on taobao, around 400 usd on ali). Still more than good enough for hobbyist needs, and $75 is a pretty cheap entry price. If I had more money to blow I would have gotten the one with the better mic from taobao but for the 175 buck price difference.. I could get a nice iem set, and it's not like I need accurate THD measurements or anything like that.

This is a great series of driver cost analysis. It's exciting to see where you're getting a particularly good deal for a set based on raw driver cost alone. Looks like GS, at least for the handful of models you've been able to perform this analysis on, are at worst similarly priced for their driver build, and at best are a significantly better deal compared to their competition. Of course, the value proposition is of relatively minor significance if the sound for the cheaper set isn't what you're looking for, but when it is, then it's just so gratifying to know you've gotten good value for your money.

I 100% agree, and that's what I've been trying to say. There are some cheaper models out there that are just as high value (at least when subjective factors are not considered) as a lot of the much more expensive iems on the market. This here is right on the mark; "the value proposition is of relatively minor significance if the sound for the cheaper set isn't what you're looking for, but when it is, then [..] you've gotten good value for your money".

Also I got word back from gs audio on which 38 series BA drivers they're using in the ST8B.

GS Audio: in ST8B , we use the 38D , in GT12X we use the normal 38 series, both great BAs, but 38D is a little better

My in depth analysis? GS audio reps use a lot of emojis.
On another less important note, that would mean they probably use the more expensive 38D that costs around $45 per composite driver (dual driver), and that the one used in the GT12X around $25. I also asked about the 38 series drivers in the GT12X and ST8B but I'm guessing (so don't quote me on this) that most of the GT series uses the cheaper 38 series bass driver, and that most of the ST series uses the more expensive 38D driver. This makes the ST8B an even better value proposition than I initially thought, this puts the ST8B at $112-$120 per ear.. Let me list all the IEMs I've checked in a table with total cost in BA to put things into perspective.
PS - All prices are in USD. The Value % is just a ratio of DIY Min to Sale value, I imagine if I did it to MSRP values the differences would be even larger..

Image version:

Link to spreadsheet on google sheets if you want to play with the data (or for possible future updates): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uZGfhlsphU2rYDkYdakLX0RyrEU3o2j2mVBl3iUjwBY/edit?usp=sharing

Table version:

Model	DIY Min	DIY Max	MSRP	Sale	Value %	BA Count
GS Audio ST3	$ 68	$ 68	$ 152	$ 152	44.74%	3
ThieAudio Voyager 3	$ 64	$ 64	$ 160	$ 143	44.76%	3
NF Audio NE4	$ 78	$ 78	$ 750	$ 674	11.57%	4
Fiio FA9	$ 120	$ 160	$ 500	$ 350	34.29%	6
BGVP DM7	$ 110	$ 110	$ 290	$ 290	37.93%	6
GS Audio ST6B	$ 174	$ 174	$ 290	$ 290	60.00%	6
GS Audio ST6A	$ 202	$ 210	$ 290	$ 290	69.66%	6
HiFi Boy OE8	$ 154	$ 154	$ 900	$ 900	17.11%	8
Kinera Odin 2.0	$ 146	$ 146	$ 850	$ 730	20.00%	8
Fearless Audio S8Z	$ 154	$ 170	$ 590	$ 530	29.06%	8
BGVP DM8	$ 206	$ 206	$ 350	$ 314	65.61%	8
GS Audio ST8B	$ 224	$ 240	$ 330	$ 330	67.88%	8
Fearless Audio HyperS12	$ 242	$ 274	$ 900	$ 810	29.88%	12
GS Audio GT12X	$ 128	$ 128	$ 252	$ 242	52.89%	12

 

[Jerry-S]

Any GT12X impressions?

 

[Tonytex]

 

[Lamim Rashid]

Do you have a tldr? I like your videos but they are a little long haha

 

[Tonytex]

Here is the graph of the three beasts together

 

[RikudouGoku]

Here is the graph of the three beasts together

lol

Looks like ST4 = Fearless S4

 

[Lamim Rashid]

lol


Looks like ST4 = Fearless S4

I think you might be right lol. They look the same as well, and both have a three way crossover. I guess it's a fearless s4 for 63 USD less.

 

[darwin098]

Any GT12X impressions?

Hi all, new head fi-er here.
Been browsing this thread for some time and pulled the trigger for the gt12x.
Got it about a week ago and am currently using them with my shanling m3x balanced and radius deep mount tips, as per rikudou goku's reccs.

Keep in mind that I do not have the most experience, and the past iems I have had was the blessing 2 dusk, I tried the arias as well.

Fit and Isolation:
Fit was decent, except that stock cable's ear hooks weren't that good and dug into my ears, and I do have bigger than average ears. I hence used a Xinhs cable. Isolation was very good, compared to the blessing 2 dusk with a huge vent. I did not experience any pressure build up, and thus I believe that the vents where the 2 pin connector is works extremely well, and that it does not let much sound in at the same time. With the radius deep mount tips, but I found that I had to keep adjusting them frequently, which was probably due to me not knowing how to wear them properly. The occasional turning of the iem towards the back of my ear helped in the comfort. Waiting on my Dekoni tips coming soon to bump up the bass(Sound impressions coming soon) and improve the comfort.

Sound:
Bass:
The bass is tight, relatively punchy, and more sub-bassy than mid-bassy, with that BA timbre where it does not hit as hard as a dynamic, but is still nice. Bass extends deep and the mid bass does not intrude into the mids at all. I would call this a neutral bass all the way until the sub bass, where it then start picking up, but yet does not intrude into the other frequencies as well, such as during EDM tracks.
Detail and texture is there, even though it is bass light. Listening to G.O.A.T. by Polyphia, I can hear the bass guitars, and drums well with proper texture but due to the tuning, they were not boomy at all, but were tight and accurate. very satisfying.

Mids:
This is where I started to love this iem. The mids when I heard this, surprised me greatly with the texture and detail. Female vocals just sounded extremely accurate and not shouty, but properly energetic.
Listening to the carole and tuesday vocal collections was a great pleasure. The guitar in the track 'The loneliest girl' was full of detail and the sliding of the fingers on the string was not piercing at all. The female vocals were just incredible and I really loved them.
Male vocals on the other hand were a little less gritty. It did not have the warmth that I loved on my HD6XXs, but im sure that could be fixed with tubes, or hopefully, the dekoni tips where they boost the lower frequencies. If the dekoni tips work they way that I want them to, I would for sure keep this iem for life.
Listening to 'A cruel angel's thesis', which was recorded with a bit more sibilance than the average song, the sibilance did not bother me at all as it was not emphasized, but SLIGHTLY de-emphasized, leading to a phenomenal listening experience with that song. I would say I prefer it on the GT12X more than my HD6XX.

Treble:
This is a little underwhelming in my opinion, but it probably is due to my preferences.
Listening to G.O.A.T. by Polyphia again, The cymbal clashes did not have as much energy as I would prefer. At least, I would have preferred that during analytical listening. Listening to them in bed before sleeping for a relaxing session, this was an extremely welcome addition as it did not pierce my ears and yet it still had that detail, splash and decay that I was looking for, but just softer(lower in volume).

Soundstage and imaging:
Imaging is spot on. I tested them in valorant and footsteps were so much more noticeable compared to other open back headphones, like the Beyedynamic DT1990. This was probably due to me having a slightly noiser environment, but my performance did shoot up when using these iems.
Soundstage was not the widest, as expected of iems, and I'd say smaller than a HD6XX, but nothing too small as they did not feel lacking during music, but only during gaming. And even then, it was something that I could easily adjust to.

Timbre:
Timbre as I said in the bass section, the bass suffers a LITTLE from BA timbre, yet the mids are as accurate as can be, rivaling that of the Moondrop Aria's IMO. Treble timbre is perfect as well, and the cymbals sounding softer, I would think is of the tuning rather than the BA timbre.

Conclusion:
The GT12X is one of the best iems that I have heard. While the aria is a better value for money at its price point, the GT12X is objectively more detailed than it (better than the Dusk) better imaging, soundstage, fit and isolation. Thus it is a very good value for money as well. To put it inot perspective, crinacle rates the aria as 3 stars for value. In the GT12X's case, it would be 2.75 stars. I have a similar library to rikudou goku, ie anime soundtracks, albums, and hiroyuki sawano. This iem was tuned to his target and I daresay that his target will start being my new reference, even compared to crinacle's IEF neutral.

Edit:
Since GS audio gives the option of letting you tell them ur sonic preferences and adjusting the sound, if you are like me, im sure you can tell them to help create a smooth bass lift maybe just 2 decibels, and if u get a custom fit shell, this will be a phenomenal pick.

 

[Mr.HiAudio]

Hi all, new head fi-er here.
Been browsing this thread for some time and pulled the trigger for the gt12x.
Got it about a week ago and am currently using them with my shanling m3x balanced and radius deep mount tips, as per rikudou goku's reccs.

Keep in mind that I do not have the most experience, and the past iems I have had was the blessing 2 dusk, I tried the arias as well.

Fit and Isolation:
Fit was decent, except that stock cable's ear hooks weren't that good and dug into my ears, and I do have bigger than average ears. I hence used a Xinhs cable. Isolation was very good, compared to the blessing 2 dusk with a huge vent. I did not experience any pressure build up, and thus I believe that the vents where the 2 pin connector is works extremely well, and that it does not let much sound in at the same time. With the radius deep mount tips, but I found that I had to keep adjusting them frequently, which was probably due to me not knowing how to wear them properly. The occasional turning of the iem towards the back of my ear helped in the comfort. Waiting on my Dekoni tips coming soon to bump up the bass(Sound impressions coming soon) and improve the comfort.

Sound:
Bass:
The bass is tight, relatively punchy, and more sub-bassy than mid-bassy, with that BA timbre where it does not hit as hard as a dynamic, but is still nice. Bass extends deep and the mid bass does not intrude into the mids at all. I would call this a neutral bass all the way until the sub bass, where it then start picking up, but yet does not intrude into the other frequencies as well, such as during EDM tracks.
Detail and texture is there, even though it is bass light. Listening to G.O.A.T. by Polyphia, I can hear the bass guitars, and drums well with proper texture but due to the tuning, they were not boomy at all, but were tight and accurate. very satisfying.

Mids:
This is where I started to love this iem. The mids when I heard this, surprised me greatly with the texture and detail. Female vocals just sounded extremely accurate and not shouty, but properly energetic.
Listening to the carole and tuesday vocal collections was a great pleasure. The guitar in the track 'The loneliest girl' was full of detail and the sliding of the fingers on the string was not piercing at all. The female vocals were just incredible and I really loved them.
Male vocals on the other hand were a little less gritty. It did not have the warmth that I loved on my HD6XXs, but im sure that could be fixed with tubes, or hopefully, the dekoni tips where they boost the lower frequencies. If the dekoni tips work they way that I want them to, I would for sure keep this iem for life.
Listening to 'A cruel angel's thesis', which was recorded with a bit more sibilance than the average song, the sibilance did not bother me at all as it was not emphasized, but SLIGHTLY de-emphasized, leading to a phenomenal listening experience with that song. I would say I prefer it on the GT12X more than my HD6XX.

Treble:
This is a little underwhelming in my opinion, but it probably is due to my preferences.
Listening to G.O.A.T. by Polyphia again, The cymbal clashes did not have as much energy as I would prefer. At least, I would have preferred that during analytical listening. Listening to them in bed before sleeping for a relaxing session, this was an extremely welcome addition as it did not pierce my ears and yet it still had that detail, splash and decay that I was looking for, but just softer(lower in volume).

Soundstage and imaging:
Imaging is spot on. I tested them in valorant and footsteps were so much more noticeable compared to other open back headphones, like the Beyedynamic DT1990. This was probably due to me having a slightly noiser environment, but my performance did shoot up when using these iems.
Soundstage was not the widest, as expected of iems, and I'd say smaller than a HD6XX, but nothing too small as they did not feel lacking during music, but only during gaming. And even then, it was something that I could easily adjust to.

Timbre:
Timbre as I said in the bass section, the bass suffers a LITTLE from BA timbre, yet the mids are as accurate as can be, rivaling that of the Moondrop Aria's IMO. Treble timbre is perfect as well, and the cymbals sounding softer, I would think is of the tuning rather than the BA timbre.

Conclusion:
The GT12X is one of the best iems that I have heard. While the aria is a better value for money at its price point, the GT12X is objectively more detailed than it (better than the Dusk) better imaging, soundstage, fit and isolation. Thus it is a very good value for money as well. To put it inot perspective, crinacle rates the aria as 3 stars for value. In the GT12X's case, it would be 2.75 stars. I have a similar library to rikudou goku, ie anime soundtracks, albums, and hiroyuki sawano. This iem was tuned to his target and I daresay that his target will start being my new reference, even compared to crinacle's IEF neutral.

do you listenning with a stock cable? in my opinion, a stock cable worse in sound

 

[darwin098]

do you listenning with a stock cable? in my opinion, a stock cable worse in sound

Used a xinhs cable
Here's the link: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002042493770.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.51d44c4dcaEv9i

 

[RikudouGoku]

GS Audio GT12x Impressions:

Bass: sub-bass rumble and extension arent that good, but there is some texture. Mid-bass texture is pretty good, is actually still on the tighter/faster side despite the quantity.

Mids: Female vocals lack brightness and clarity and is a bit recessed. Male vocal tonality is good but does lack clarity and detail.

Treble: Dark treble, not sharp at all and non-fatiguing. Does lack clarity and detail to me.

Overall: I had pretty high expectations of it and this definitely doesnt meet them. I can see some people liking this but it will be a niche rec at best.

 

[Mr.HiAudio]

GS Audio GT12x Impressions:

Bass: sub-bass rumble and extension arent that good, but there is some texture. Mid-bass texture is pretty good, is actually still on the tighter/faster side despite the quantity.

Mids: Female vocals lack brightness and clarity and is a bit recessed. Male vocal tonality is good but does lack clarity and detail.

Treble: Dark treble, not sharp at all and non-fatiguing. Does lack clarity and detail to me.

Overall: I had pretty high expectations of it and this definitely doesnt meet them. I can see some people liking this but it will be a niche rec at best.

I just don't understand what the sound-tuner(engineer) expects to create such a sound.