Grado SR60 vs RS1. Ten times better? | Edit: BOUGHT RS1

[PrzemekDraheim]

Hello Everybody,

Before I get to the point let me write a little bit about my current headphone experience, Grado SR60. For two years I’ve been listening to Sennheiser HD590 through Creek OBH11 amp using Pioneer PD-S605 source. It was OK but some time ago I’ve noticed that listening through HD590 is not as pleasurable. It’s hard to explain but many times when I had time to listen to music I would look at them and decide I would rather take a nap than listen to my music. After a lot of reading I bought the SR60 and voila, I can’t stop listening to music now!

I don’t think I had this “wow, it’s awesome” factor going on when I first put them on. It was more like growing into their sound. Now I think they (my low end Grados) sound inviting and musical. I only listen to blues and classic soul and this music is all about vocals and feeling. Guitars sound super-sweet too. Grados seem to work great with this kind of music bringing the singer as close to my face as possible. And I love that. Plus, Grado SR60 are super-comfortable for me. If there ever was an “I forgot I was wearing them” comfort level with my headphones, this one has it.

I read a lot about modded Senn414 pads and tried them on with Grados. When they were “reversed” I didn’t like the new sound. Hights were a little bit too much for me but the main problem was that the music was further away from me. The singer was no longer singing in my face, I couldn’t feel the warmth of his breath on my face – I just love that close feeling. When I put those Senn414 pads not reversed but the regular way with the quarter hole directing my ear it was much nicer. More details but the same cool close feeling. I am into the process of getting a pair of flat pads to try but there is something else on my mind too…

As I like the Grado sound and it’s upfront warm presentation I am thinking of buying a pair of RS1. I found one pair that is gently used, about 7 years old . EDIT: MY MISTAKE, they are not 7 years old. They are 5 or 6. SORRY. , but in perfect cosmetic shape (dark wood with buttons) and according to their original owner they are the best sounding RS1 he ever had – and he had four pairs. They look so lovely and I would love to own them but they are not cheap. Plus, as they are located in another European country I can’t listen to them in person. They are more expensive than a new pair bought in USA but I am located in Poland/Europe so Grados are always more expensive here. Those used RS1 cost pretty much the same as new Grado GS1000 bought in USA. Anyway, this used new pair is still about $150 cheaper then the new bought from Polish distributor.

The point of this thread is… I did a lot of searching, went through about 20 threads containing “RS1” is the subject line and about 30 containing “RS-1” in the subject but I only found one very old thread comparing high end RS1 with low end SR60. RS1 are about 10 times more expensive than SR60. Are they really 10 times better, especially basing on what I have written above?

I don’t think I can call myself an audiophile but I love the blues and listen to a lot of records – I have about 6.000 blues & soul CDs. Some of them are audiophile releases and some of them have rather poor quality. I need phones to enjoy the music, accuracy or “monitoring” is not really my think. It’s hard for me to say what is wrong with my SR60 or what should be better as everything sounds cool. I think it’s more like placebo and this sensual need to own those beauties. Do you think it is worth to pay 10 times more for RS1?

Also, as they are used I am afraid that I will pay so much cash and they will get broken or die on me. However, my friend once said that if something won’t break during warranty period it want break at all. The original owner who had been using them for those 7 years said they are made to last a lifetime. Is that true?

If you could share your thoughts with me that would be much appreciated as those cans are SO BEAUTIFUL, but crap, so expensive.

Thank you,
Przemek Draheim
Przemek Draheim's official website

 

[Townyj]

I just recently went from the Alessandro MS-1 to the Grado RS2. I know its not an RS1 or SR-60 But its very close. You can definately tell the difference in sound. I had to sell my MS-1's since i know they wont get any head time at all now. Maybe sometime down the track ill jump on the RS1 bandwagon. Basically i see myself as a music lover and no a full on audiophile. Everything about the RS2 seems better, lows,mids and high's! The details are amazing. You honestly wont regret going to the RS1 i think. Yes i am new to this aswell, it is very addictive

Keep your eye out for a good quality second hand pair and you will save alot of cash.

 

[Lumient]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townyj /img/forum/go_quote.gif You honestly wont regret going to the RS1 i think. Yes i am new to this aswell, it is very addictive Keep your eye out for a good quality second hand pair and you will save alot of cash.

x2

I've gone from MS1 to HF1 to RS1. Every step was a step to the better. I wouldn't dare to say that RS1 is ten times better than MS1. The difference in sound quality is there but not everyone thinks it's worth the price difference. RS1 is IMO a musical headphone if there's one.

As for the Grado build quality... What I've gathered, it varies. Most Grados look a bit fragile, but are still pretty sturdy after all. And RS1s are made from sturdier materials than the plastic SR-series models and RS2. But I still wouldn't want to throw my RS1s around

 

[Stevtt]

I too have a set of 590's and have not been enthusiastic about them. I think "just not pleasurable" is a good term. I decided to take the leap and order order a set or RS-1's which should be here today. I do have a set of the Igrados, and they are fun and really do sound pretty good and I like listening to them a lot more than the 590's and that kind of influenced me to by the Rs-1. I will be glad to let you know what my initial impressions are with the Rs-1 although I probably won't be able to be as descriptive as you would like,

 

[NiceCans]

Unlike most others who have made the journey, I moved up the "Grado ladder" to the RS1's (as I was tempted by their beauty and legendary sound) but then I moved back down to sr225.

Yes the RS1 sounded better, but I just could not justify the expense vs the improvement in sound quality. The price is a huge jump, the sound IMO was nowhere near as huge.

Besides, I've got my K701

 

[glac1er]

The SR60 sounds intimate and sweet with vocals. I like it too. I've tried MS1, SR225, SR325, MSPro. They just do vocal differently from the SR60.

I once tried a SR60 with an RS1 side by side, the RS1 also have that very elusive sound on vocals. It is an upgrade from the SR60 and seems to match what you're looking for. But ten times better? No.

It is very important to have matching source and amplifier to go along with your RS1. Without a good matching equipment, IMO the RS1 won't even sound twice as good as the SR60.

I think you set your expectations to high, nothing is 10X better than the SR60. The RS1 at a price of a GS1000 is horribly overpriced IMO, even at the $700 brand new price I think it is overpriced. Buy used from the F/S forum here. And don't just look at the RS1, the RS1 is not an absolute winner for vocals, there are other headphones that are seriously good on these too.

 

[razer]

Precisely why this hobby is so screwed up. Look at the number of cans I got there and I can say non is technically superior over the other even when say the L3000 costs so much more than say a HD650....Its just different sound signatures.

IMO, this hobby cannot be measured in the Price Versus Perfomance ratio because sometimes, getting that much more sound gives us a sense of satisfaction that makes us forget how much we just dumped into getting a particular equipment. Its just like eating expensive steak at a steakhouse. That moment the meat touches ur mouth and brilliant smell of black and blue steak waffling through ur tastebuds up your nostrils makes u forget the $100 that you've just spent on it. Same goes for red wine....

 

[malldian]

That along with the fact that diminishing returns start kicking in at the KSC75 and SR60 level hard. It is however, part of the experience. I suggest seeing if you can demo them for a bit and make your decision based on that. There is no realistic way to score a headphone, therefore no way to qualify one as x times better than another.

PS: I wish I could afford to do what you are considering. Hope this helps and keep up informed.

 

[HiWire]

You hit the point of diminishing returns immediately after the SR-60 on the price scale. I don't think the Grado design increases in durability as you go up the product range, but the quality of materials is somewhat better.

 

[krmathis]

Don't expect a product costing 10 times as much to give you 10 times as much back. Be it sound quality, build quality, ...

At a certain price point you start getting smaller steps forward for each additional $$ put into the product. The same goes for any product out there (headphones, amplifiers, cars, clothing, food, ...).

 

[wae5]

I own the SR325i and have never heard the RS1. The thing to remember about Grados is they have a distinctive house sound based on a unique coloration and this special sound is very evident in the SR60. This sound is tweaked even further as you move through the SR series and culminates in the SR325i which some call the most Grado-like of all the Grados. I believe this is true so it's the Grado I bought and I am not disappointed. In the RS series this distinctive Grado sound is tweaked even further so it becomes even more refined and sublime. I live near a Grado dealer in San Francisco and one day I suggested to him that some people are seduced by the SR60 sound so they expect much more of it as they move up the Grado ladder. However, some may become disenchanted if they discover the SR series consists of modest tweaks of the essential SR60 sound and when they move up to the RS series Grados become slight variations on the sound of the Sennheiser HD600 without its larger sound stage. He agreed so I bought the SR325i and never looked back except once.

 

[SptsNaz]

If you are expecting them to sound 10 times better you will gravely disappointed.

The RS1's have a very lovely sound signature that you won't really find in any other headphone. What makes them great though is that they scale nicely with better equipment, whereas the lesser grado's tend to get only marginally better. I noticed that with a tube amp, the sound varies quite a bit with different tubes, not to mention different pads.

Some people will put on the RS1's and say "ahhh, that's what I've been looking for all this time", and other will say "700 bucks for these, give a break". You'll know which one you are once you've tried them

By the way, get them used if you're going to buy them. They typically go for around 500-550 on Audiogon and eBay

 

[PrzemekDraheim]

Thank you guys for taking the time to share your thoughts with me.

The first thing that many of you, like glac1er, have mentioned are costs. Those RS1 I am thinking of are used, 7 years old. EDIT: MY MISTAKE, they are not 7 years old. They are 5 or 6. SORRY. They are expensive but a bit cheaper then new Grados bought from the official distributor here in Poland. Grados seem to be overpriced in Europe in general. I was thinking about getting them used from USA but if I get “caught” by customs I will be “taxed” and “VATed” and end up with the distributor price. This RS1 (pictured in my thread) is located in Europe so tax free.

I also understand that it is hard to expect RS1 to sound 10 times better than SR60. What I meant is: what is getting better with those expensive headphones? And what, as an owner of SR60, can I expect when I put these on? This is the main question

About the quality/durability… Is it reasonable to think that if a headphone is 7 years old and there was never a problem with it, it will last a lifetime?

One of you compared RS1 to a steak in an expensive restaurant and I agree with that. Human brain works in mysterious ways, at least mine does, and I know that if I keep my thinking on a positive side I like certain things better. With RS1 I know I am buying myself a piece of a dream/legend. I am just looking at them and love them so my brain and ears won’t admit that they sound bad.

**Stevtt** I’d love to hear your comments after you listen to RS1.

PD

 

[M0T0XGUY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrzemekDraheim /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you guys for taking the time to share your thoughts with me. The first thing that many of you, like glac1er, have mentioned are costs. Those RS1 I am thinking of are used, 7 years old. EDIT: MY MISTAKE, they are not 7 years old. They are 5 or 6. SORRY. They are expensive but a bit cheaper then new Grados bought from the official distributor here in Poland. Grados seem to be overpriced in Europe in general. I was thinking about getting them used from USA but if I get “caught” by customs I will be “taxed” and “VATed” and end up with the distributor price. This RS1 (pictured in my thread) is located in Europe so tax free. I also understand that it is hard to expect RS1 to sound 10 times better than SR60. What I meant is: what is getting better with those expensive headphones? And what, as an owner of SR60, can I expect when I put these on? This is the main question About the quality/durability… Is it reasonable to think that if a headphone is 7 years old and there was never a problem with it, it will last a lifetime? One of you compared RS1 to a steak in an expensive restaurant and I agree with that. Human brain works in mysterious ways, at least mine does, and I know that if I keep my thinking on a positive side I like certain things better. With RS1 I know I am buying myself a piece of a dream/legend. I am just looking at them and love them so my brain and ears won’t admit that they sound bad. **Stevtt** I’d love to hear your comments after you listen to RS1. PD

The RS-1's greatest selling point, in my opinion, is its refinement. To an extent, all Grado models excluding the GS-1000 carry that same, punchy sound signature: forward mids, accentuated highs, tight bass, and an extremely upfront presentation. Your SR-60's have these qualities, and the RS-1's have these qualities.

The difference, however, is in the subtleties of the sound. Yes, the RS-1's midrange is still forward, but it's lusher, smoother, warmer; the true definition of liquid as far as I know. Also, the treble is toned down ever so slightly: the detail is still there, but notes seem to flow from one to another, rather than stand out starkly as separate events. The bass, unfortunately, is the only unwieldy part of the RS-1's sound signature. Indeed, depending on the aptness of your amp, the lower range of this Grado can either be a defining quality or a bit of a letdown; tubes, in this case, yield the most benefit, as they tighten the bass and accentuate it without the "boom boom" effect of other phones.

Anyway, in my opinion, I think you should go for an RS-1 - they're absolutely fantastic with blues and jazz, and that one you linked to us looks quite nice in terms of condition and age.

 

[Dash]

The RS-1s sounds different from the rest of the family, especially with a synergistic amp (ie EC/SS, MAD Ear). Based on your location and the fact that they are my favorite, the MS2i should not be discounted. The are the best value and all rounders in the family. If I owned another pair of Grado/Alessandro it would be MS2i with flats. I have owned the SR60 through the RS1 plus MS1 and MS2i. They are the best value to my ears. The wood on the RS series does flavor the sound but it is not worth the premium to me. But whether they are 10x's better, that's very subjective. I say no.

2 cents.