[joseph69]

i think it's a difficult question for you as a headphone consumer to answer in a way that makes sense to the rest of us because your answer is so subjective

I agree, it's a difficult one for sure.

 

[up late]

^ apologies but i edited my previous post to express what i was trying to convey more clearly

 

[mortcola]

I agree, it's a difficult one for sure.

Hi joseph69. It sure is! (difficult, that is). I apologize for a long post - feel free to skip if you're not optimistic. But I've given lots of thought - and have written lots of "legit" and off-the-cuff pieces - about these issues over the years, and I'm happy to toss them into the mix and see if people get something from it, and give some back. What you refer to is the difficulty shared by every reviewer of every aesthetic object - art, or equipment involved in experiencing or making art. Unless we resign ourselves to the existence of some "objective" standards and a shared language that means the same to everyone, then what we're doing is sharing personal experiences of a thing that is, presumably created or built to achieve a goal or make a statement on the part of a creator (artist, engineer, company/manufacturer, some combination of all three, etc) who are qualified to do so, or consistent in a way that allows each of us to experience and respond to the same object (a symphony, a pair of headphones, a certain make of guitar, the bronzino at Grasso's Jazz/Ristorante). If all PS2Ke units are equal, and each of us, with our own ear/brain/preference/self-reflective awareness are unique but speak a common language so that we are not all completely alien to each other, then the fun and education of it is, like in any civilized dialogue, a chance to enter into the "subjective" (a word, along with "objective", has been dismantled in terms of being valid, or meaning what we think it does, over the last 90 or so years of philosophy, of science, aesthetics, and epistemology) world of other people. This hobby - sharing experience with other intelligent, discerning people about things we all value, with different standards but ways of meeting in the middle and stretching ourselves to "get" the other guy - along with the hobby of listening to music, and grooving on the ways different devices capture an event that happened somewhere else, at a different time, and was recorded for posterity and sale - is a big deal to lots of us. All of us here, I suspect, as I'm doing this instead of finishing up the planning for my workweek, and cuddling with my wife and daughter in the other room as the latter falls asleep, love doing these things. Think about what "recorded" even means. Something that, other than words used to describe the event, after the fact, didn't even exist until a few decades ago, in the whole history of humanity. And now, we have headphones for ten bucks, or 50K, or 2.695K, alll of which are at least good enough to satisfy the music-needs of some segment of the population, who are using either a record-playing device worth a few pizzas, or a good house in a good neighborhood. So I'm loving and finding IMMENSE value in hearing the listening impressions - I hope them to be VERY non-objective, as I am VERY uninterested in involving concepts like correctness if they have any more authority than the ability to say that the devices conveyed enough verisimilitude to keep me listening, and wanting to share my impressions, and hear about yours. Grado 'phones are consistently the most satisfying transducers of this kind at each price point, for my individual make-up, while I enjoy and find the worth and discern some of the characteristics typical of other brands. I've had a lot of audio gear over the years, and while lots of it was expensive, lots of my favorite stuff was not expensive at all, because there is a large mystery-zone in the correlation between expensive engineering, measurable accuracy, group consensus, and personal satisfaction. 99.999999999999999% of all heterosexual males, and a slightly smaller percentage of non-hetero, will find my wife to be disturbingly attractive. But everyone's results may vary, as car ads say. And I'm deeply biased. But there is a blunt fact out there (her aspect and her eyes - Lord Byron, She Walks In Beauty), and that blunt fact, the "thing in itself" - a piece of music, which conveys emotional ideas in a shared human medium, and the physicality of a woman, who has qualities culturally and evolutionarily developed to evoke a visceral response, such as my love for her, which has also been consensually validated by the love and envious wishes of others, and which I, like any human or even most Vulcans, am incapable of being objective about. My Grado phones do it for me the way the Grado folks intended. And the PS2Ke do so better, for my ear and dollar, than others. For reasons I've written in other posts. The fact that they are extremely popular, with a large consensus, but with a vocal minority who disagree, supports the value of discussing the complexity of our responses, and how purely measurable or positivist approaches do little to either convey an experience (which is the point of audio gear - while producing quantitative data is not), or to get a good discussion going. Love to hear if anything cool comes from my sharing of pet ideas about beauty, truth, and expensive audio equipment.

 

[up late]

is the ps2ke extremely popular? i don't see anything approaching a large consensus about it at this headphone forum anyway, which makes the claim of a "vocal minority who disagree" an exaggeration. i value subjective impressions and objective headphone data. i regard these criteria as complementary when evaluating headphones rather than mutually exclusive. if this were a ps2ke appreciation thread then any critical comments would understandably be discouraged but thankfully it isn't, which means that we can have a diversity of views. i have no problem with folks extolling the virtues of their favourite headphone, but that doesn't make the opinions of those who aren't as enthusiastic about it any less valid.

 

[mortcola]

is the ps2ke extremely popular? i don't see anything approaching a large consensus about it at this headphone forum anyway, which makes the claim of a "vocal minority who disagree" an exaggeration. i value subjective impressions and objective headphone data. i regard these criteria as complementary when evaluating headphones rather than mutually exclusive. if this were a ps2ke appreciation thread then any critical comments would understandably be discouraged but thankfully it isn't, which means that we can have a diversity of views. i have no problem with folks extolling the virtues of their favourite headphone, but that doesn't make the opinions of those who aren't as enthusiastic about it any less valid.

I surveyed lots of higher-end Grado user and journalist reviews, and informally described a trend, regarding a somewhat passionate split in reactions to the "grado sound", as expressed in the range of the opinions expressed. I insinuated nothing about the validity of other opinions, except that they are wonderful, essential, and the very reason to have a dialog about things we value, such as gateways to music and communication with well-meaning others

 

[up late]

so to clarify, you were referring to the "grado sound" of the higher-end models and not to the ps2ke specifically? with regard to the "grado sound" more generally, i think it's fair to say that it has been polarising at head-fi at least but i can't think of many, if any headphones that aren't.

 

[mortcola]

so to clarify, you were referring to the "grado sound" of the higher-end models and not to the ps2ke specifically? with regard to the "grado sound" more generally, i think it's fair to say that it has been polarising at head-fi at least but i can't think of many, if any headphones that aren't.

My main point was to validate joseph69 regarding the difficulty in speaking of personal experience, especially the emotional and aesthetic aspects of musical experience - but that this is the universal challenge of "reviewing" audio gear in way that is valid, authoritative, acknowledges its personal nature but also communicates meaningfully to others - meeting all these criteria. this also involves the basic problem of what we mean by subjective and objective when talking about personal meaning and experience. As for the Grado bit, there is a particular sort of split in the language and valuation of their performance, which is somehow more pointed than other brands, I think - and that this trend, evident especially in reviews of the Statements and Professionals, appears to be manifesting again in reaction to the PS2Ke. This all grew from my answer to Joseph69 about the reviewer's difficulty.

 

[up late]

i did read your post before replying to it. have you read the grado ps2000e loaner program @ttvjaudio.com thread? there are some thoughtful and very detailed impressions of the ps2ke to be found there: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/grado-ps2000e-loaner-program-ttvjaudio-com.852728/

 

[figaro69]

I've had some time over the holidays to put some millage on the PS2Ke's. I've also been able to compare them to other headphones in my collection. Mind you, my observations here are specifically geared to classical music fans, which is almost exclusively what I listen to.

In addition to the PS2Ke's I listened to my HD800s (original version), Focal Utopias, Audeze LCD-Xs, AKG 701s, Beyerdynamic T1s, Mcintosh MHP-1000s, HD650s, Fostex TH900s, Audio technicas ATH3000 anniversary, and Audio Technica ATH-W5000 (Raffinato). I must say, all of these headphones are amazing in their own right. Moreover, I would have to say that the difference between the "lowly" (at least price-wise) AKG 701s and the more expensive headphones in my collection is, frankly, rather small. It's all a matter of flavor, really. My ears want to tell me that the best sounding closed headphones for classical music in my collection are the Mcintosh MHP-1000s driven by the Mcintosh headphone amp. My ears also want to tell me that the best open headphones for classical music are the PS2Ke's, followed by the HD800s, Utopias, T1s, and AKG 701s in that order. Still, the other headphones in my stable are not too shabby with classical music, including the darker-sounding HD650s and LCD-Xs (i.e., I love these with thinner-sounding older recordings).

I hate to say it, but It seems like I have wasted a lot of money searching for the Holy Grail of headphones. I should probably have called it a day after I got the AKG 701s, because they simply sound amazing for my taste in music... but hell, curiosity always got the best of me. As much as I love the PS2Ke's and Utopias, I have to say that my ears say that you get about 95% of what these have to offer if you stick with the AKG 701s.

 

[Beagle]

I hate to say it, but It seems like I have wasted a lot of money searching for the Holy Grail of headphones....but hell, curiosity always got the best of me.

You're not the only one..

 

[goodvibes]

On balance, it's the best phone I've ever heard, including Stax of which I've owned 1/2 dozen or so and current planars. Bass quantity is a preference thing but for me, any more would be a step in the wrong direction. I'm also familiar with earlier top Grado, Sennheiser, Beyer and AKGs. Preference and associated gear driven segment so ymmv.

 

[fzman]

Fresh out of the box, driven by my Luxman P-750u, these show great promise..... Big, bold, tonally dense, dynamic, and they can swing!

 

[ESL-1]

Freshly posted is a great review on The Headphone Guru site. Knowing of Frank's experience and knowledge makes this especially powerful. A great read, highly recommended, subscribe while you are there if you are not already.

Here is a link, enjoy: http://headphone.guru/sensational-new-dynamic-reference-headphone-john-grado-ps2000e/

 

[omniweltall]

Question is: is this headphone USD2,650 good?

Headphones pricing has gone to the stratosphere, of course helped by immense hype created by reviews sites. Companies seem to be racing to produce sky-high priced "statement" can. Some of them, though still way overpriced, truly sounds good (Utopia). Some of them, imo, are more fairly priced (HD800, ZMF) and still present good value. Others are just flat out overpriced.

I really doubt ADX5000 and this PS2000e have the design, build quality, or sonic quality that make them worth their tag prices.

And I doubt that this PS2000e can best HD800 for classical. Don't have good impressions on Grado cans. We'll see. Looking forward to try it.

 

[joseph69]

Question is: is this headphone USD2,650 good?

Headphones pricing has gone to the stratosphere, of course helped by immense hype created by reviews sites. Companies seem to be racing to produce sky-high priced "statement" can. Some of them, though still way overpriced, truly sounds good (Utopia). Some of them, imo, are more fairly priced (HD800, ZMF) and still present good value. Others are just flat out overpriced.

I really doubt ADX5000 and this PS2000e have the design, build quality, or sonic quality that make them worth their tag prices.

And I doubt that this PS2000e can best HD800 for classical. Don't have good impressions on Grado cans. We'll see. Looking forward to try it.

Before saying you have so many "doubts" about the PS2Ke try it first, then comment.
I've tried mostly all the current TOTL headphones costing $3-5K (in home) for at least 10 days each and I'd take the PS2Ke over any of them. I too was not impressed with it's price increase over the PS1K/e because I though the increase would have been along the lines of the GS1Ke to the GS2Ke (+/-$3-400.00 depending on the termination) so I had initial sticker shock and was very dissapointed at their price increase. Then I came to my senses and realized all the other TOTL headphones I demoed cost much more money and I didn't like any of them half as much as the PS2Ke.