[stinkytofus]

Why people say the amp is alright ? Whats different about the amp vs the amps from other brands at similar or higher price points

 

[PopZeus]

Of course the m9XX isn't going to be as fully-featured or powerful as a dedicated head amp. The amp it does have is a great expression of the DAC section, with some neat options in a classy, minimal interface. Unlike some other DAC/AMP combos, the line out and the headphone jack sound pretty similar (both great).

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

I'm starting to feel that I have to put forth extreme praises in each and every headfi thread I join. Please remember that each of us is enjoying the m9xx with different headphones and different purposes, and also we have different experiences with different stuffs. I don't think I'm expecting too much about the m9xx, but at the same price the idsd micro can drive practically any headphones on the planet and the ps sprout can drive speakers. They both have a solid dac section IMO.

That all said, I sold the other 2 to keep the m9xx. I just love its DAC section that much.

 

[PopZeus]

I'm starting to feel that I have to put forth extreme praises in each and every headfi thread I join. Please remember that each of us is enjoying the m9xx with different headphones and different purposes, and also we have different experiences with different stuffs. I don't think I'm expecting too much about the m9xx, but at the same price the idsd micro can drive practically any headphones on the planet and the ps sprout can drive speakers. They both have a solid dac section IMO.

That all said, I sold the other 2 to keep the m9xx. I just love its DAC section that much.

All good but you're kinda making my point for me. Hehehe. I mean, if the m9XX had such an amazing amp section, it'd be the ultimate "your-favorite-piece-of-gear" killer, but nobody's promising that as far as I'm aware.

 

[stinkytofus]

  Of course the m9XX isn't going to be as fully-featured or powerful as a dedicated head amp. The amp it does have is a great expression of the DAC section, with some neat options in a classy, minimal interface. Unlike some other DAC/AMP combos, the line out and the headphone jack sound pretty similar (both great).

so are you recommending a dedicated amp and a separate dac? which would they be? 
 
what other amp/dacs should i consider that is around 300-1000 range that offers better performance than m9xx?
 
the drop for the m9xx is ending in two days so id like to either pick one up or consider another

 

[PopZeus]

  so are you recommending a dedicated amp and a separate dac? which would they be? 
 
what other amp/dacs should i consider that is around 300-1000 range that offers better performance than m9xx?
 
the drop for the m9xx is ending in two days so id like to either pick one up or consider another

 
Oh, I wouldn't. Not unless you have need for a dedicated head amp. Since all my headphones are fairly easy to drive, the m9xx handles all of my needs. If I had super hard-to-drive headphones, I'd probably get a reasonably-priced tube amp and invest in some decent tubes. Something with a line out pass-thru so that I could still power a pair of speakers and keep the m9xx as a DAC source and to drive IEMs. 
 
I was thinking about checking out a Little Dot I+ tube amp for low impedance cans, just because I love a warm tube sound but even then I'd only use my DAP as a source (no pass-thru) and not connect it to my main set-up.
 
To be honest, I don't feel comfortable making recommendations for unfamiliar gear. I haven't heard much stuff other than what I've bought and have never had use for a dedicated head amp. Grace, who makes the m9xx, also makes the far more powerful m920, which looks like a real nice piece of gear, but it's a lot more than $1000. Schiit has a lot of options in your price range but I don't know the sound quality. Bottom line: You can't go wrong starting off with the m9xx. Even the poster above who thought the m9xx's amp section was underpowered decided to keep it over his other options. Later on, if you decide you need a dedicated head amp, options in your price range are wide open. 

 

[WindyCityCy]

I love the m9xx.  I have 3 other headphone amps and this is the one that gets used 90% of the time (HD800, D7000, LCD2v1, Powered Genelec speakers and sub).  The form factor, channel balance, volume range, integrated DAC, and ease of use are its real strengths.  I also have the iDSD Micro which I like because it's battery powered, easily transported, and can drive any headphone I have, but it doesn't work nearly as well as the centerpiece of a desktop setup where both headphones and powered speakers are used.  I use the iDSD micro for travelling and in the bedroom and the m9xx while sitting at my desk.  I'm glad I have both.  
 

 

[guitardave]

  It works great with a pair of headphones...
 
Seriously though, from what I've read the DAC in the m9xx is excellent, but the amp section is mediocre - so you could get a better standalone amp and put it in between your m9xx and your HPs.
That's what I have done, and the dual HP plugs on the M9XX are still handy when she and me want to watch something on netflix etc.

Not to beat a dead horse, but how do you separate the amp from the dac?  Aren't you always hearing the amp with the dac even if you play if through another amp?  Like the Mojo?
Are you saying the amp is not up to driving some headphones and another amp helps it in that regard?

 

[Spork67]

 
Not to beat a dead horse, but how do you separate the amp from the dac?  Aren't you always hearing the amp with the dac even if you play if through another amp?  Like the Mojo?
Are you saying the amp is not up to driving some headphones and another amp helps it in that regard?

 
You use the line out, and set the volume to 90. (I know this sounds like "double amping" - but it's what Grace say to do, and it works well).
 
The hardest to drive HPs I've tried with it so far were HE-400i's. It got them loud enough for me, but there wasn't much left on the volume dial. I will have some 600ohm HPs to try soon.
 
There are a few ppl. who, like me, bought the Grace as an all in one but who now use it as a DAC - some on some pretty high end systems - Stax etc. The M9XX sounds very good - but a $1000 amp will probably make it sound even better.

 

[guitardave]

So aren't you using the amp to a 90 setting? Just like the Mojo? The amp is not out of the circuit but at a line level voltage? Is ths correct?

 

[Spork67]

So aren't you using the amp to a 90 setting? Just like the Mojo? The amp is not out of the circuit but at a line level voltage? Is ths correct?

That sounds right.

 

[fjrabon]

So aren't you using the amp to a 90 setting? Just like the Mojo? The amp is not out of the circuit but at a line level voltage? Is ths correct?

up to 90 out of the RCA, the Grace uses digital attenuation of the DAC output.  There is some form of "amping" in that the DAC section itself has an output stage.  But all DACs have output stages.  So, no, if you are going out of the RCA on the m9XX and are 90 or below, you are in no way "double amping" int he way people mean double amping.  Think of it as a "pre-amp" if you must.  This is a capability of the AKM4490 chip, as my Cayin iDAC6 has this functionality too, with the DAC itself, I can put it in pre-amp mode and use the chips' built in 32 bit attenuation if I want.  You are getting pure signal out of the DAC.  Below 90 it's using 32 bit digitial attenuation, which is better than what most recording studios use, so don't worry about it.  At 90, it's a bit perfect signal from the DAC.  While if you want to be theoretically bit-erfect, 90 is preferred, there really is no practical difference below 90 given that 32 bit digital attenuation is so good.
 
Up to 90 out of the headphone jack, the m9XX essentially just transforms the output to a current feedback, 0.08 ohm signal through a class A op-amp that is always running at full gain, but the attenuation itself is done digitally.  After 90 the m9XX uses an additional op-amp based amplifier stage.

 

[m8o]

90 is "unity gain".

Please see this, from the source: http://www.head-fi.org/t/785553/grace-design-x-massdrop-m9xx-dac-amp-review-first-impressions/30#post_12020699

It seems to me, anything feeding an amp, be that dac, cd player, whathaveyou, to or bypassing a preamp, is that not in some way "double amping"?

Important point here is the quality of the output device, well described immediately above, into a -high- impedance load. And I'm confident in saying it's very high quality.

 

[mandrake50]

90 is "unity gain".

Please see this, from the source: http://www.head-fi.org/t/785553/grace-design-x-massdrop-m9xx-dac-amp-review-first-impressions/30#post_12020699

It seems to me, anything feeding an amp, be that dac, cd player, whathaveyou, to or bypassing a preamp, is that not in some way "double amping"?

Important point here is the quality of the output device, well described immediately above, into a -high- impedance load. And I'm confident in saying it's very high quality.

I think this "double amping" is bad comes from times where a headphone out is used to drive a line in to an amp. Often there is an impedance mismatch,,, and in many cases the reason for using an external amp is because the one in the source is inadequate. So you have a crappy headphone amp with a mismatch driving an input not designed for this.
 
If you have any kind of pre-amp, designed to drive a line level input on an amplifier, it by necessity has amplification built in to take the source and raise it to the 2 volt line level out. In other words, there is really no way to connect the devices without some level of  "double amping" 
Ok if a device is designed to take an input and output a line level signal, such as the M9 xx, there is no "double amping" beyond what is required to transfer the signal at the correct level to the next stage.  at level 90, it should act like a straight through device. As mentioned, it is at "unity gain"  from the DAC chip at that point.
 
BTW, I have used headphone outputs on a device to drive a portable amp and had no perceivable loss in quality. It is all about the quality of the source headphone amp, properly adjusting the output, and the quality of the amp. 

 

[ironpeg]

Does it have enough power to drive LCD-3?