[fjf]

Did you try with the foobar equalizer?. Can you share with us your eq. settings?.

BTW, WE NEED A DT880 SMILEY!.

 

[Steve999]

I didn't try it with the foobar equalizer, but I'll describe it and maybe that will help.

The settings were -8db centered at 9247 hertz and bw/oct = 1/3. I don't know how that translates into foobar equalizer settings, but if you eyeball it, it's an indentation (notch), v shaped, with concave sides running generally from about 8000 hertz to 1100 hertz. Reduce the db and/or width of the notch and the high frequencies get progressively brighter; suit to taste. I moved the notch side to side across the frequency spectrum in that area with the DEQ2496 parametric EQ to see what sounded the best. I don't know if you can do that with foobar or not. Once I saw that what I was doing correlate with the headroom graph, I used that to help me make my choices

If you look at the headroom graph you'll see a big old spike of about 10 db right there. The big surprise for me was that it made such a difference in the sound, because that's getting pretty high up there. The spike (before EQ) certainly adds a great deal of sparkle and brilliance, but it's well out of the midrange, so it's not a traditional upper midrange brightness... the mids stay nice and warm with or without the EQ.

And yes, WE NEED A DT880 SMILEY!

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjf Did you try with the foobar equalizer?. Can you share with us your eq. settings?. BTW, WE NEED A DT880 SMILEY!.

 

[YngwieJMalmsteen]

Welcome to the team beyerdynamic))))
///

\\\

 

[sionghchan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Congratulations! To my ears, the DT880 is damn close to the perfect headphone.

Hey Fewtch, I remember reading your thread when you first got your DT880 and you were not 100% sold on it back then. When did all these change for you? When did you start seeing DT880 as a "damn close to the perfect headphone" for you?

Personally, I am still finding it hard to find another headphone that I like better..
Now, with the Corda Aria coming to me in the post, I think this is going to be the PERFECT combination! Can't wait!

 

[Steve999]

Okay, I just downloaded foobar ver. 0.83. My first time using foobar. Definitely falls into the "massively cool" category. Thanks! Is this supposed to be free or what is the story? I honestly don't know. Wow is it nice!

Anyway, to get the general effect just slide the foobar EQ 10 khz slider down somewhere around -6 to -8 db, or really, just see what sounds good to you. I think it's a nice improvement. Your notch will be a little wider and a little higher up in frequency than mine with the DEQ2496, but it's pretty close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjf Did you try with the foobar equalizer?. Can you share with us your eq. settings?. BTW, WE NEED A DT880 SMILEY!.

 

[vcoheda]

I've had my DT880s for a few weeks now. They sound great. A good purchase.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sionghchan Hey Fewtch, I remember reading your thread when you first got your DT880 and you were not 100% sold on it back then. When did all these change for you? When did you start seeing DT880 as a "damn close to the perfect headphone" for you?

They just steadily grew on me, over the course of approximately one month.

 

[fjf]

The same here. Well, I tried to lower some dB in foobar's equalizer around 10KHz, and I don't like it. Violins sound muddy. I guess I got used to the bright trebble!. Without it they are less fun.

 

[Steve999]

Day four with my DT880s!

Yeah, the moderately tipped-up treble on the DT880 is definitely a fun and engaging sound.

You do increase the fidelity by toning it down just a bit though, I think. A friend of mine did some measurements on them yesterday. The six to 8 db spike around 9,000 hertz is apparently due to an ear / headphone interaction. He said what I figured out by ear was "surprisingly close to calculated and mesured phenomena." Which of course I was pretty psyched about.

The low treble on the DT880 is a little forward too (centered at about 5,200 hertz) and there's another peak at about 11,200 hertz. The mids and bass are nearly flawless, IMHO.

Here's my theory, a way to look at it: If you look at Senn phones, or really any over-the-ear headphones, they have the same kind of big rise at around 9,000 hertz due to the ear/headphone interaction. Sennhesier and AKG generally choose to keep things flat around 9,000 hertz (even taking into account the big rise there), which results in a sizeable dip (which depending on the exact response pattern could result in "the veil") somewhere between 5,000 and 9,000 hertz. Beyer (with the exception of the DT250) keeps it flatter (no dip) from 5,000 to 9,000 hertz, resulting in the audible spike at 9,000 hertz. The rise at around 9,000 hertz has to do with a 1/2 wavelngth "modal resonance" between the ear and headphone (no I don't know what that means -- it's just what my friend who did the measurements called it) and as I see it those are the two approaches to get around it -- either a dip before the 9,000 hertz spike so you're flat around 9,000 hertz, or get a more lively transducer that's flat up to 9,000 hertz, but then you get the spike at 9,000 hertz.

Check out all the headroom graphs and you'll see it over and over. Under my frame of reference, Grados and Beyers tend to be "spike" phones (though the DT250 is a dip phone), AKGs and Senns tend to be "dip" phones. I've got a Senn HD580 (dip) and a Beyer DT880 (spike) which are two superb examples of the design choices. It's a design choice, each with it's own audible drawbacks. Rough treble seems to be an inherent design problem with over-the-ear headphones because of the way they interact with the ear. Accurate measurements and precise digital EQ can resolve the problem and greatly increase the level of fidelity. All IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjf The same here. Well, I tried to lower some dB in foobar's equalizer around 10KHz, and I don't like it. Violins sound muddy. I guess I got used to the bright trebble!. Without it they are less fun.

 

[warpdriver]

Are the DT880's the perfect headphone? No.
But they are damn close.

All I know is that they are keepers. That says it all.

If the K701's displace my 880's as my reference, I'm still keeping the 880's as secondary full sized cans. The rest will have to go.

For mine, I think the break-in stopped around 50 hours. I did not notice any difference from 50-100-200 hours.

 

[konstantinos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve999 Here's my theory, a way to look at it: If you look at Senn phones, or really any over-the-ear headphones, they have the same kind of big rise at around 9,000 hertz due to the ear/headphone interaction. Sennhesier and AKG generally choose to keep things flat around 9,000 hertz (even taking into account the big rise there), which results in a sizeable dip (which depending on the exact response pattern could result in "the veil") somewhere between 5,000 and 9,000 hertz. Beyer (with the exception of the DT250) keeps it flatter (no dip) from 5,000 to 9,000 hertz, resulting in the audible spike at 9,000 hertz. The rise at around 9,000 hertz has to do with a 1/2 wavelngth "modal resonance" between the ear and headphone (no I don't know what that means -- it's just what my friend who did the measurements called it) and as I see it those are the two approaches to get around it -- either a dip before the 9,000 hertz spike so you're flat around 9,000 hertz, or get a more lively transducer that's flat up to 9,000 hertz, but then you get the spike at 9,000 hertz.

Hey there Steve! I really enjoy reading your observations regarding the DT880s.

However, considering I'm a bit dumb, would you mind explaining the quoted paragraph (and the one beneath it) some more? I think I know what you're trying to say, but something in the writing there confuses me!

By the way, for future reference:

DT 880 graph:

SR 225 graph:

PS: Didn't Headroom (before the redesign) used to give much larger versions of the graph? Any idea where we can find them?

 

[Steve999]

Thanks for your interest! The thing is, as many people can attest, I'm sure, I only half know what I'm talking about, to put it mildly. So what I wrote will have to do.

But as you can plainly see from the headroom graphs, both the SR225s and the DT880s are "spike" phones (spike at 9000 hertz). AKGs and Senns tend to be "dip" phones, if you check headroom (a dip somewhere between 5,000 and 9,000 hertz). AKGs and Senns also are known to use "diffuse field" equalization, which I have a feeling has to tie into the dip somehow. Diffuse field EQ is supposed to help the highs sound flat despite the ears' interactions with the headphones, which tends to accentuate the highs. In my view, due to the complexities of interactions with the ears, the state of the art in headphone design hasn't accomplished smooth-sounding treble like you would get from a reasonably good speaker.

I had a friend take the DT880 measurements for me last night. I was aware of the headroom graphs, but as I understand it they are not beyond criticism, though they are informative and helpful.

I should add that my friend who took the measurements does not buy into my theory and is much more knowledgeable than I am, but that never stopped me.

The DT880 graph looks a lot prettier than the SR225 graph, doesn't it. Check out the DT880 silky smoothness from low bass straight through the mids and the phenomenal bass extension. Awesome. At a minimum to make a fully informed purchase people should just know that the DT880s are moderately brighter than neutral in the treble, IMHO. The headroom written description of the DT880s is quite good, I think (and I'm not the biggest fan of headroom).

Quote:

Originally Posted by konstantinos Hey there Steve! I really enjoy reading your observations regarding the DT880s. However, considering I'm a bit dumb, would you mind explaining the quoted paragraph (and the one beneath it) some more? I think I know what you're trying to say, but something in the writing there confuses me! By the way, for future reference: DT 880 graph: SR 225 graph: PS: Didn't Headroom (before the redesign) used to give much larger versions of the graph? Any idea where we can find them?

 

[konstantinos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve999 But as you can plainly see from the headroom graphs, both the SR225s and the DT880s are "spike" phones (spike at 9000 hertz). AKGs and Senns tend to be "dip" phones, if you check headroom (a dip somewhere between 5,000 and 9,000 hertz). AKGs and Senns also are known to use "diffuse field" equalization, which I have a feeling has to tie into the dip somehow. Diffuse field EQ is supposed to help the highs sound flat despite the ears' interactions with the headphones, which tends to accentuate the highs. In my view, due to the complexities of interactions with the ears, the state of the art in headphone design hasn't accomplished smooth-sounding treble like you would get from a reasonably good speaker.

OK, if I just forget that paragraph from the previous post that confused me and simply focus on the graphs, I can certainly see what you're saying.

For reference, here's the HD 595's graph:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve999 The DT880 graph looks a lot prettier than the SR225 graph, doesn't it. Check out the DT880 silky smoothness from low bass straight through the mids and the phenomenal bass extension. Awesome. At a minimum to make a fully informed purchase people should just know that the DT880s are moderately brighter than neutral in the treble, IMHO. The headroom written description of the DT880s is quite good, I think (and I'm not the biggest fan of headroom).

I'm seconding everything here...

Thanks for the quick reply Steve! Have fun with you DT 880s!

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve999 The DT880 graph looks a lot prettier than the SR225 graph, doesn't it. Check out the DT880 silky smoothness from low bass straight through the mids and the phenomenal bass extension. Awesome. At a minimum to make a fully informed purchase people should just know that the DT880s are moderately brighter than neutral in the treble, IMHO. The headroom written description of the DT880s is quite good, I think (and I'm not the biggest fan of headroom).

Personally I would say they are "nominally" bright in the treble, rather than moderately. Grados are moderately bright, DT880 are only slightly bright to my ears... but everyone's ears differ, of course. I don't like bright treble but I love the DT880s... that should say something.

Also, with acoustic music like classical I don't get an impression that instruments sound tipped up or out of balance. If they were very bright, violins would sound awful but they don't.

I'm not an EQ person and don't particularly want that kind of crap in the signal path, but that's just me. Also, graphs only say so much and like you pointed out, Headroom's are open to question.

 

[fjf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by konstantinos PS: Didn't Headroom (before the redesign) used to give much larger versions of the graph? Any idea where we can find them?

http://graphs.headphone.com/

WE NEED A DT880 SMILEY: