[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjf WE NEED A DT880 SMILEY:

Naah... DT880 owners have the real thing while we're listening, what do we need an icon for?

.

 

[Steve999]

Thanks. Great link!! It's much quicker to browse through these and the graphs are much bigger. From what I've seen comparing the newer hearoom measurements to others' measurements, they're actually pretty good now, better than previous headroom FR measurements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjf http://graphs.headphone.com/ WE NEED A DT880 SMILEY:

 

[Steve999]

Well, this ends day five with my DT880s.

I've been taking a look at the HD595s, which seem to be the only other headphone approaching this degree of technical performance from the bass through the mids, with the Beyers seeming (by the headroom graphs) to hold a slight edge in bass extension and midgrange smoothness. What seems to distinguish the HD595s from the Beyers is that the Senns run about 10 db down compared to the Beyers in the low-to-mid treble. Even though the Beyers are a little in excess of neutral in the treble, I don't think I'd want to go 10 db down with the HD595s. They both seem to have a spike centered at about 9 khz... the Senns just shelve down very quickly after 4 khz to accomodate the spike. In short, both of these superb headphones are a little rough in the treble. The Senns just do it in a subdued way, while the Beyers keep everything else quite neutral but just let the spike at 9 khz stick out there. I think uneven treble is just part and parcel of over-the-ear headphones and how they interact with the surface of the ear. I don't think the state of the art has gotten past that.

Plus having tried the HD595 at meets I think the Beyer build quality is a little better than that of the Senns. The Beyer headband is metal and there are metal screws helping to keep things together. It's hard to imagine them falling apart. I have the Senn HD580s and HD280s and the build quality does not seem as good.

With my digital EQ I think I am getting very close to a neutral transducer with the DT880s, so I get to hear something pretty close to exactly what's on the recording. That's pretty exciting.

I wish there were a headphone with the DT880s level of performance from the bass through the mids but also with a treble performance to match it. I don't think there is.

I should emphasize that the Beyer DT880 "brightness" is not a midrange brightness but a treble brightness. The two are very different. Grado SR60s and Sony V6s by contrast have a midrange brightness, which can sound brash. I compared them today and the midrange on the V6s and the Grados is definitely brighter. Treble brightness (which the DT880s have) results in a brilliance or sheen and emphasis on instruments like triangles, drum cybals, etc. Listening to jazz, the DT880s remind me of being in a very small club (a situation I have been in many times). They are definitely going to reveal ambiance and detail in recordings in a way that is very exciting and engaging, as well as emhasize percussion instruments that involve the upper end of the audible spectrum. Also, the elevation in treble lessens the apparent level of the bass by comparison. If you wanted to go down to neutral without smoothing things out with more precise EQ, you could more or less get there by turning a conventional treble knob down about 4 to 6 db, I think.

So, in truth, I am a little disappointed by the treble emphasis in light of the absolutely brilliant bass and midrange performance of the DT880s. I think I have entirely compensated for it with digital EQ. The DT880s are basically linear transducers except for the audible spike in the treble. I just can't help but wish that there was some headphone that took things to the next level and got the treble exactly right, but I just don't know of any such headphone that exists right now. I thought closely about the HD595s but they seem to have a very similar problem in the treble but 10 db down... sort of shoving the problem under the carpet, if you will. Mind you, these are the two best technically performing headphones that I know of, in terms of what I am looking for in a headphone, bar none. You definitely get your 200+ dollars' worth with either one.

Thus ends my thoughts at the end of day 5....

 

[K2Grey]

Very good review so far

 

[Canman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve999 I just can't help but wish that there was some headphone that took things to the next level and got the treble exactly right, but I just don't know of any such headphone that exists right now.

Steve, I'm glad you are enjoying your new cans. Perhaps the AKG K701 would satisfy your treble requirements. I find the AKG to be a very neutral yet enjoyable can, but my experience with them is limited since I sent them out for another Head-Fier to test them out.

 

[NeilPeart]

The DT880 is an excellent headphone and my favorite Beyerdynamic. I'm giving them a second shot and they really benefit from a quality source/amp (perhaps that contributed to their early departure during our first tryst). It's very difficult to decide amongst the three 'phones at my reach, but the DT880 offers a certain perspective the HD650 and K701 cannot reproduce. I thought narrowing the applicants to one would be a simple task – enjoy the DT880.

 

[Steve999]

Thanks so much for your perspective, Neil. I really appreciate it. Since you have 3 really great headphones (including the DT880s) and very different headphones I'd be interested in any observations you have.

Thanks too, Canman. The AKG 701 is just not the kind of general sound I am after though:

http://www.headphone.com/headphonege...20FR%20Avg.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPeart The DT880 is an excellent headphone and my favorite Beyerdynamic. I'm giving them a second shot and they really benefit from a quality source/amp (perhaps that contributed to their early departure during our first tryst). It's very difficult to decide amongst the three 'phones at my reach, but the DT880 offers a certain perspective the HD650 and K701 cannot reproduce. I thought narrowing the applicants to one would be a simple task.

 

[fewtch]

Glad you're enjoying Steve... I'm puzzled as to why the DT880's treble response seems so far overblown to you though... maybe this is something that varies depending on head/ear size and shape. After adapting to the sonic signature, I notice no treble brightness, only a tendency toward liveliness and energy in the treble. You must have mentioned the word "bright" or "brightness" about 20 times in your review, which puzzles me a bit. From the beginning, I've found them (subjectively speaking) only very slightly on the bright side of neutral and close enough that the could be called neutral compared to 99% of what's out there on the market.

Seems like you had some pretty strong expectations that were dashed... is that it? I much prefer to buy a pair of headphones and just enjoy rather than analyze and nitpick. Maybe that's why I don't use EQ

. The DT880s have repeatedly surprised and amazed (particularly with unamped acoustic music), and minor treble anomalies are just no big deal to me.

P.S. another thing that puzzles me -- if you can EQ to the point the headphones are neutral to your ears, why are you (seemingly) bothered by the need to do so?

 

[Steve999]

Hey Fewtch! From a normal person's perspective they are indeed only a little bright. It's not "overblown," it's just somewhat in excess of neutral. It just gets me that they are so incredibly perfect otherwise, they're just *that* close from being not only among the best but being the *ideal* headphone. I admit, I'm a little obsessive about it, especially since I have already learned (with some very expert help) how to EQ the sound to what really is the ideal headphone sound signature to me.

Additionally, structures of the outer ear will affect the brightness of some over-the-ear headphones from person to person, because of how they interact with high frequencies. As I understand it, it is quite certain that they don't sound exactly the same to me as to you, and quite possible they sound a little less bright to you, based on the relative shapes of our outer ears.

I admit, I was hoping for something just a little closer to perfection, as I see it. This is as close as I've heard to perfection, though, for what it's worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Glad you're enjoying Steve... I'm puzzled as to why the DT880's treble response seems so far overblown to you though... maybe this is something that varies depending on head/ear size. After adapting to the sonic signature, I notice no treble brightness, only a tendency toward liveliness and energy in the treble. You must have mentioned the word "bright" or "brightness" about 20 times in your review, which puzzles me a bit. From the beginning, I've found them (subjectively speaking) only very slightly on the bright side of neutral and close enough that the could be called neutral compared to 99% of what's out there on the market. Seems like you had some pretty strong expectations that were dashed... is that it? I much prefer to buy a pair of headphones and just enjoy rather than analyze and nitpick. Maybe that's why I don't use EQ . The DT880s have repeatedly surprised and amazed (particularly with unamped acoustic music), and minor treble anomalies are just no big deal to me.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve999 It just gets me that they are so incredibly perfect otherwise, they're just *that* close from being not only among the best but being the *ideal* headphone.

I can definitely relate to that... IMO the treble energy gives an incredible sense of air and ambience to live performances of classical music. To me, it's only a bit much when the recording itself is on the brighter side of neutral (uncommon with classical, a little more common with other genres).

Conversely, with the K501 I find them perfect unless a recording is bass-shy. It's an great combo of headphones... between the two I feel incredibly spoiled

. I think having both these around is actually the "ideal" combo for me, and there's nothing more I could want (particularly for jazz/classical, new age and pop, which comprises 90%+ of what I listen to).

Gotta admit, I'm curious to hear the K701 though... it would have to be pretty amazing to beat the DT880/K501 combo, but anything's possible.

 

[Seijang]

Nice discussion Steve!

In case any other possible DT880 owners were looking at this thread, I thought I'd interject that I feel closely to what Steve feels. However, I can't EQ my source, so I don't - the tiny bit of brightness is by no means a bad thing, but better if not there

. Also, I feel that the DT880s lack body in the bass - I dont want the bloated thump, though the DT880s definitely have a thump when the situation calls for it. It's just that for certain types of music (think mostly noisier types of music) it can't convey the sustained bass or the slam. I have difficulty describing what it's missing but since metal-type music is a small part of what I listen to, the DT880s might as well be sent from heaven

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seijang Nice discussion Steve! Also, I feel that the DT880s lack body in the bass - I dont want the bloated thump, though the DT880s definitely have a thump when the situation calls for it.

Ever since these discussions have been taking place concerning the 880's I've literally been changing between the 880's and the Senn 650's just as a contrast.

It is so difficult to make any decision which I actually prefer. Sometimes, the clean sounding Beyers really do it for me then later, the Senns give me that really rounded sound that I think may have been missing.

However, today, I'm on a Beyer day, listening to Bjork. The clarity of her voice and her backing vocalists is amazing. At one point, a group of female singers interject on one side. It was SO realistic, that I nearly jumped out of my chair!!

The other thing is that bass. On her albums, deep bass is enormous. So the cans do have plenty down below if you'll pardon the expression. Almost the feeling of having a sub woofer on your head!!!

Both the Senns and Beyers are amazing headphones which have such different strengths and weaknesses. So, is it just a case of preference because I think that they are both very revealing, but have a different bias in tone colour.

Ian

 

[gmbennett]

Interesting thread, and the B&H deal on the "old" DT-880s looks tempting...

Are the differences between the new and old models cosmetic only, or is there any acoustic difference as well?

 

[gmbennett]

Never mind!

Found this link: http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...&highlight=880and it appears that the differences between "old" and "new" are aesthetic only.

 

[wakked1]

If you're running this through Foobar or something similar, I recommend a little EQ fun... -6 @ 10Khz, +6 at 14Khz, 0 everywhere else. Try it for an album or two and you might never go back..