Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?

[Saraugie]

Take in to account Apple has a special Bluetooth chip called the W1 which allows compatible apple devices to have much higher quality then standard AAC.

Apple just cares that its accessories work well with their devices, for the rest of it they couldnt give a damn.

So expect your iphone to only work well and have high quality audio with your apple earpods/pro/max.

That may be your experience but it is not mine. My MTW4 and AZ~80 sound great using MBA and iPhone ..full stop. So much so, that on some songs I ask myself if I can hear a difference using aptX Adaptive and LDAC, rather than AAC.

This is one unarugable fact: With all this testing I've done, I have some CRAP recordings. Anyone remember Napster and Limewire? I found MP3s in my collection less than 100 kbps! A nostalgic look back at digital music piracy in the 2000s. It really was the Wild West back then!

 

[Sam L]

I have them since one month, i think the SQ is a bit better than my Bose QC II ultra. The microphone is far better, close to Aipods pro 2, but the active sound reduction is quite zero for me . Their are my choice when i'm not in a plane or a train, but the QC ultra stay in my other pocket for noisy places.

hmmm.... I'm always on the look out for for TWS earphones that have good quality mics, but I've got too many units to pull the trigger on this. Still, good to know.

 

[absolutnie]

Anyone able to distinct 990kbps from 660kbps (LDAC) in a crowded train station with constant announcements, people bumping into you and road works just next to the station, raise your hand

 

[absolutnie]

Anyone able to focus on a micro dynamic details in a gym pushing yourself?

 

[stacey]

I don’t think the W1 chip offers any sound quality improvements. My understanding of the W1 is that it does other things. Do you have a cite for that? It is true that apples implementation of AAC is considered to be very good but it’s definitely not lossless. To answer OPs question, there have been some rumors going around that Apple will eventually upgrade AAC to a lossless format either via WiFi of Bluetooth but my guess is Apple doesn’t view this as a priority. We are in the 1 percent minority who care and Apple doesn’t cater to us. The masses think AAC is just fine. It’s a sore spot for sure.

Any sources on whether Apple may/will eventually adopt a more useful bluetooth audio codec? Without having use a dongle, I'd only just recently realised there wasn't much point over investing on a Bluetooth solution if my iPhone 15 Pro isn't going to transmit the best sound to the TWS.

…Qualcomm just got high fidelity lossless (aptx lossless) this year. Unless y’all actually consider aptX and LDAC lossless. Those codecs aren’t lossless at all. Aside from that each phone/chip manufacturer likes to put their own spin.
Qualcomm has aptx
Sony has LDAC
Huawei LHDC
Apple is AAC

Apple's main goal is to keep people in the Apple ecosystem. Giving support to codecs that would make non-apple devices look good goes against their total walled garden lock users into their system at all costs approach.

Honestly, the goal of all companies is to lock you in and keep you as an ongoing customer, that said you're starting to see certain features getting locked out of competing products (the unavailability of aptx lossless for one). What exactly do you think Qualcomm is doing with their new chipsets? Same exact thing, requires a Snapdragon chip on both sides to enable WiFi streaming. So my Linux build, or Mac that I run Parallels, or Exynos powered Galaxy, or Google Pixel is just as unable to play as my iPhone. And Qualcomm/Sony/etc is on something if they think I'm buying a device just for a damn codec lol.

Anyone able to distinct 990kbps from 660kbps (LDAC) in a crowded train station with constant announcements, people bumping into you and road works just next to the station, raise your hand

Most people can't even distinguish between FLAC and 196kbhs....

 

[PixelSquish]

…Qualcomm just got high fidelity lossless (aptx lossless) this year. Unless y’all actually consider aptX and LDAC lossless. Those codecs aren’t lossless at all. Aside from that each phone/chip manufacturer likes to put their own spin.
Qualcomm has aptx
Sony has LDAC
Huawei LHDC
Apple is AAC



Honestly, the goal of all companies is to lock you in and keep you as an ongoing customer, that said you're starting to see certain features getting locked out of competing products (the unavailability of aptx lossless for one). What exactly do you think Qualcomm is doing with their new chipsets? Same exact thing, requires a Snapdragon chip on both sides to enable WiFi streaming. So my Linux build, or Mac that I run Parallels, or Exynos powered Galaxy, or Google Pixel is just as unable to play as my iPhone. And Qualcomm/Sony/etc is on something if they think I'm buying a device just for a damn codec lol.

I'm not really sure what your point is? I never said other companies don't do it. I never said they shouldn't do it ever either. But also, I'm not a fan of qualcomm's latest moves either. They're all very anti-consumer. And by the way Apple does way more anti-consumer things than codecs, that's the absolute least of the things they do it with.

If you want to 'correct' me for pointing out anti-competitive and anti consumer corporate practices leveraging huge market power to implement very anti-consumer decisions, I mean go for it I guess.

I'm going to keep on speaking out against anti consumer practices by any company. We just happen to be talking about audio here.

 

[AudioJunki3]

For months, I've been listening to the Ultras using Snapdragon sound/aptX Adaptive. The only connection issue is the single-point connection. I don't know anyone who thinks it a good idea, me included.

If you could go back, would you buy the ultras again or go for something else?

 

[Saraugie]

If you could go back, would you buy the ultras again or go for something else?

Something else. For ANC, it is the King....for the sound quality it is not. 12th in line?

Those are the most important features I want. Phone calls/Ambient modes, etc...I won't be using so I have no opinion on those.

 

[Ghisy]

Take in to account Apple has a special Bluetooth chip called the W1 which allows compatible apple devices to have much higher quality then standard AAC.

Yeah, I don't think this chip delivers a superior audio quality than regular AAC. It's probably only for latency/Bluetooth stability and stuff like that.

 

[scubaphish]

I don’t think the W1 chip offers any sound quality improvements. My understanding of the W1 is that it does other things. Do you have a cite for that? It is true that apples implementation of AAC is considered to be very good but it’s definitely not lossless. To answer OPs question, there have been some rumors going around that Apple will eventually upgrade AAC to a lossless format either via WiFi of Bluetooth but my guess is Apple doesn’t view this as a priority. We are in the 1 percent minority who care and Apple doesn’t cater to us. The masses think AAC is just fine. It’s a sore spot for sure.

It’s limited to the Vision Pro, but the AirPods Pro 2 with USBC offer wireless lossless audio. Check it.

Edit: so you don’t have to click a link:

The H2 chip in the latest AirPods Pro and Apple Vision Pro, combined with a groundbreaking wireless audio protocol, unlocks powerful 20-bit, 48 kHz Lossless Audio with a massive reduction in audio latency.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023...rpods-pro-2nd-generation-with-usb-c-charging/

 

[helmutcheese]

Yeah, I don't think this chip delivers a superior audio quality than regular AAC. It's probably only for latency/Bluetooth stability and stuff like that.

Correct and it has been replaced by the H1:

https://www.macworld.com/article/673991/apple-w1-vs-h1-chip.html

 

[SynaestheticA]

Anyone able to focus on a micro dynamic details in a gym pushing yourself?

Haha. I get annoyed by micro detail when I'm focusing on another task or in the gym as it makes it harder to focus on the task at hand.

Edit* Running hypnotically to trance tho, I'll take all the MD ( micro detail ) I can get

 

[SynaestheticA]

If you want to 'correct' me for pointing out anti-competitive and anti consumer corporate practices leveraging huge market power to implement very anti-consumer decisions, I mean go for it I guess.

I'm going to keep on speaking out against anti consumer practices by any company. We just happen to be talking about audio here

Just pointing out as an innocent bystander offering his perspective in order to bring peace to the realm. But Stacey wasn't correcting you, just carrying the convo forward with other examples and perspectives. Defs wasn't calling you wrong, just saying (I think) the practices that make you dislike Apple are industry wide.

I still dislike Apple the most, but mainly because with all the money of a medium sized nation, they still have the shittest messaging keyboard, auto correction and phone/contact system of any device.

I can't spot a point of difference with them except for the inability to remove files from your device to your computer without a 3rd party app (so safe and secure Apple well done)

 

[Juturna]

Got my Moondrop Golden Ages in the mail just now.

First impression:
Don't fall for any hype.
Connecting them with my phone took awhile, they didn't show up in the pairing list the first 10 times I tried to connect them, but just repeating the same dumb thing over and over again, I finally got them to pair.

At least on LDAC the sound seem to lag and stutter a shitton, but I will not judge that completely, I just installed Android 14 on my OnePlus Open and it's NOT behaving normally.

Sound:
Not great, barely "good".
The EQ settings in the app? Not sure they do anything at all.
Can't hear a difference. But on the other hand trying to switch from ANC to Transparency to off is just not doing anything in the app either, so fudge knows if it IS changing anything.

Eartips included are all too small, switched to Bose Quietcomfort Tips. Better.
Sound still sounds very mediocre though. It's anemic and sounds kinda fuzzy around the edges, not clear at all.
Barely any bass either. In a bad way.

Expectations were low, but so far they managed to make me disappointed anyway.

 

[dweaver]

That is because LE-audio (longer battery use) using the LC3 Codec is a replacement for SBC and not to compete with the aptX Family or LDAC for SQ.

FYI I get longer out of the JLab Epic Edition using Windows AD2P Driver (to get 16/44.1 AAC instead of native 16/48 AAC) than with the LE JLab Dongle and the claims of 9+hour with ANC at 50% Vol is BS I get 8 hours +/- few mins at 20% volume but I found the same on their older earbuds (had 3 sets).

Still thinking hard about getting these. How are you liking now after having them a while?

When I listen to Aaron's samples I really like the signature but worry I might find it a bit shouty at times.

Any annoying faults?