[yourstruly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif How exactly are you defining "increasing satisfaction with increasingly expensive headphones"? Relative to their distribution, the more expensive phones appear in FS or eBay every bit as often as (if not more than) the cheaper phones. If people were satisfied, they wouldn't continue to buy and sell phones after reaching these "better" phones. The fact that most here continue to do so indicates that there's little correlation between price and contentment; whether you buy a $100 HD555 or a $10,000 Orpheus, if you don't stop wondering if your next purchase would make the music better, you're in the same boat. You can't buy satisfaction, no matter how good each purchase may feel in the two-hour/day/week honeymoon. It's got to come from inside.

Example:
The majority of people here would conclude after listening to both the px100 and the HD600, that the HD600 sounds better.

I know what you are saying, that the pleasure you get from each consecutive purchase may or may not be the same, but I don't think that's what the OP is asking for. When I say "satisfaction," I mean perceived quality of the product, not pleasure in the utilitarian sense.

 

[Epicfailman]

I don't think it was you lucky, cause the guy ran it out of his macbook directly and never amped the two. And tenzip, his conclusion was invalid. If you read what I said, based on his premise, his conclusion was invalid. Had his premise been something other than to see which was the best phone overall, then it might not have been invalid. But given that premise, his testing did not meet up to that premise (aka he did it wrong) therefore invalidating his conclusion.

 

[tvrboy]

Extreme high-end products will always seem TERRIBLE to people who first start using them. Take someone who has driven a Honda Accord for his entire life. The first time he drives a McLaren F1, he will think it is an awful car. Extremely hard ride, uncomfortable seat, no interior space, no visibility, hard-to-modulate clutch, no traction control, no GPS, no lane departure assistance systems, no seat warmers. But in the right environment, with the right training, most people "learn" to like these supercars. Maybe the same comparison can be made with headphones? I'm a total newbie, and sometimes when I demo high end phones, I can't see what the fuss is about. They sound bad to me, but that's probably because I just don't know anything about sound reproduction! Same with people who don't know anything about art....they walk into a modern art museum and say "what is this crap? why is a painting of a red square worth 50 grand?" I'm not saying anything about the OP personally, cause I don't know him. I'm just saying that most people think "better" either doesn't exist or is not worth the money in things they are not educated about (cars, motorcycles, art, musical instruments, radios, boats, model airplanes, etc).

 

[tenzip]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see how his conclusion can be invalidated by anything other than his coming to another conclusion at another time, regardless of method. Saying 'he did it wrong' is meaningless, as he reached the conclusion using that method, and it is correct for that method, to him.

I'm not saying you, I, or anyone else has to agree with him, just that his conclusion is self-evidently correct and valid for him.

(Either that, or he was a big, fat troll, looking to stir things up. Always a possibility on forums.)

 

[dcpoor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epicfailman /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think it was you lucky, cause the guy ran it out of his macbook directly and never amped the two. And tenzip, his conclusion was invalid. If you read what I said, based on his premise, his conclusion was invalid. Had his premise been something other than to see which was the best phone overall, then it might not have been invalid. But given that premise, his testing did not meet up to that premise (aka he did it wrong) therefore invalidating his conclusion.

you're thinking of lucky.
he ran the k701's out from his macbook and sometimes a behringer mixer with low quality opamps. i believe it was the UB802.

his conclusion was along the lines of preferring the AD700's, the AD700's being very comparable to the k701 in sound quality, and saying they were a better value than the k701's, which i agree they are in the monetary/cost sense. my issue was with him being extremely vocal about his conclusions without mentioning his source and the lack of good amping during his auditioning.

 

[lucky]

I'm not sure who you're talking about then, Epicfailman, but I've got to agree with tenzip; an opinion doesn't become "invalid" simply because you don't agree with it or the way it was reached.

 

[odigg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm just saying that most people think "better" either doesn't exist or is not worth the money in things they are not educated about (cars, motorcycles, art, musical instruments, radios, boats, model airplanes, etc).

Sure. But "Education" can also be used to convince people that something that his just slightly different is actually better. Marketing lives by this creedo, selling us tap water in fancy bottles. I'll bet marketers would love to "educate" you in how expensive bottled water is just better than regular water. They'd probably charge $5000 for a course on water education.

Education is great. But education is also used a lot to bring other people to your line of thinking, which is not always a pursuit of truth or some noble goal. It's sometimes little more than brain washing to sell products, kill somebody else, to promote bigotry, and a number of other things. Even the traditional educational system, the school we all attend, has many subtexts and controls built into it to teach us many lessons under the guise of making us better human beings, but which is actually just making us believe and support a larger system we may not have believed in if we lived in a different time/country/culture.

Anyway, too much philosophy. The point is sometimes education is just brain washing.

 

[Epicfailman]

You can't disagree with someone opinion. However, you can say that the way they formulated their opinion was incorrect and therefore their opinion is not based how it should be and therefore is invalid. If someone makes an opinion on something, but failed to look at everything that was necessary to look at to formulate said opinion, then their opinion does not have the proper basis and is invalid.

 

[lucky]

^ You're still trying to state that someone's subjective opinion is objectively wrong. Reality just doesn't work that way. You don't get to determine what "the proper basis" is for anyone else's personal opinion but yours.

 

[Epicfailman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^ You're still trying to state that someone's subjective opinion is objectively wrong. Reality just doesn't work that way.

Quite clearly I did not. However this is turning into an argument which is detracting from the original thread, so I think that we should "agree to disagree". If you do not understand my point, I do not wish to explain/justify it further. Perhaps it is the way I am explaining it, I don't know. But I never objectively said your opinion was wrong; I said it was invalid. Wrong and invalid are two very, very different things.

 

[tenzip]

And I still disagree. This person had everything necessary to form their opinion, the headphones and a source. Using an amp may very well have led to a different opinion, but maybe not. It's still valid, either way.

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epicfailman /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I never objectively said your opinion was wrong; I said it was invalid.

You don't even know what my opinion is; you mischaracterized it repeatedly when referring to it, and have yet to admit you were wrong there too.

And you still don't get to define what constitutes someone else's valid opinion.

 

[tenzip]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epicfailman /img/forum/go_quote.gif However this is turning into an argument which is detracting from the original thread, so I think that we should "agree to disagree".

I'll buy that, although I think it's perfectly on topic for this thread.

 

[Epicfailman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif You don't even know what my opinion is; you mischaracterized it repeatedly when referring to it, and have yet to admit you were wrong there too. And you still don't get to define what constitutes someone else's valid opinion.

I don't get to constitute someone's opinion; you are right, but I most certainly can argue its validity, so there you are wrong.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald North /img/forum/go_quote.gif From my experience, better does exist. A few examples: When I heard the Sennheiser Orpheus system, the Stax Omegas, and recently the AKG K1000s - these are profoundly better than anything I've heard from "traditional" headphones. Below them, it's more an issue of preference. Better models will provide greater inner resolution and micro dynamics of the musical performance and recording. Different models offer different presentations to the music: Do you want it close and intimate sounding or do you want it relaxed and a bit distant sounding? Each person has their preference and this may vary with music. Also don't forget the amplifier in the total equation: A lousy amplifier won't allow any headphone to sound its best. With loudspeakers and headphones, you do hear more of what the speakers/headphones are capable when powered by top amplifiers.

OP, better does exist. I've heard it. Donald North has it right. I own better gear than I've owned in the past. That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy my previous rigs. I've enjoyed them all, right down to the crappy headphones I owned 20 years ago. I've owned the 770/80s, had recabled K701s in my home for a few weeks and have heard them on multiple rigs since then, and I've auditioned stock and modded, balanced and single-ended D5000s (I think those were some of the headphones you mentioned). They're all nice headphones, and I've preferred one or another at different times, depending on the entire system and the type of music I was listening to. There are, however, headphones that are leagues above them, and I have preferences there, too. If I prefer R10s to K1000s, and O2 MK1s to HE90s (in the right setup), that doesn't mean I think R10s or O2s are better than the K1000 or HE90s. They're not. That's just about taste, but I can say without a doubt that any of those, and a few others, are far better than the headphones listed before. I have some pretty nice gear, and I've heard better than what I own. That's just the way it is. I don't need my gear to be the best. I just need to like it. It's good that there's something better out there. I like that. I like knowing that I might get to hear it from time to time. If I had to sell everything I own right now and go back to a minimal rig, I'd still enjoy it. That's something entirely different, and not about what's better. I hope you're enjoying whatever you're listening to now.