[Damz87]

At $4k, Phonix is priced beyond it‘s capabilities.

The correct price-point is around $2k, and it would be a strong choice for that money… but even then, would still bend the knee to the 64 U12T, which wears the crown in that market segment, and is a superior IEM.

Basically, it’s an upgraded VE8. Which is a great IEM (one of my personal favorites), but overpriced in it’s own right ($1.5k would have been about right). I’d need a long listening session to determine if the whole of the Phonix delivers the same magic as the VE8… the latter is certainly not a perfect IEM, but it has some of the best mids in the business, and it’s signature is uniquely balanced to perfectly deliver that particular range.

I’m a fan of the brand, so I’ve bit my tongue, but at this point, I think I’m doing them a disservice by not voicing my opinion (and it is just that, my opinion, so nobody get too bent out of shape).

Frankly, Vision Ears needs to either rethink their prices or step up their game.

Someone compared the Phonix’s lack of bass extension and sub bass to the Odin’s upper mid-bump… both are faults, sure, but the Odin’s flaw is due to the difficulty of attaining perfect cohesion of a signature that easily hits the entire spectrum of audible sound. The Phonix literally can’t replicate frequencies that many $500 IEMs can. With respect, that‘s like comparing two multi-million dollar race cars, one of which has a jerky 3rd gear because the car’s gearing is balancing low-end torque for super acceleration with tall upper gears for those 250mph straight-aways … while the other car tops out at 85mph. The first car might require some patience at specific points in the race, but the other car… well, the other car isn’t really racing, is it?

With a $2k specialty mids machine like the VE8, an inability to hit bass frequencies that are taken for granted with other similarly priced IEMs can almost be forgiven as a quirk of the unique VE8 experience. I know I forgive them every time I listen to them, love them as I do.

But with the Phonix at $4k, we’re talking a price tag indicative of range-topping ultra-exotic flagships. We’re talking race cars… and it’s unacceptable. Bring the pain at every frequency, or you’re not in the conversation in that tier of IEM. Period, full stop.

I agree that U12t is an amazing sounding IEM, especially for its price point in today’s market. But I would disagree that U12t is an outright “superior” IEM to Phonix. From a technicalities standpoint, I would argue that Phonix is superior to U12t in a few (not all) aspects. I also don’t agree with the statement “The Phonix literally can’t replicate frequencies that many $500 IEMs can” - I can most definitely hear sub bass with Phonix, but it isn’t as pronounced compared to U12t with the m15/m20 modules for example. I believe this is a tuning choice rather than a limitation of the hardware.

Regarding the $4k price tag - Diminishing returns starts kicking in pretty hard basically past the $1k mark with IEM’s in terms of sound quality imo. You’re paying for design, build quality, brand/prestige/bragging rights, accessories and packaging. Phonix, imho, absolutely feels “worth the price” on those metrics compared to other IEM’s I’ve owned in this price category.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Quite a rant haha... Soooo.... what IEM's do you like?

Tristy, how does the EXT fair against your Odin?

 

[orifiel]

At $4k, Phonix is priced beyond it‘s capabilities.

The correct price-point is around $2k, and it would be a strong choice for that money… but even then, would still bend the knee to the 64 U12T, which wears the crown in that market segment, and is a superior IEM.

Basically, it’s an upgraded VE8. Which is a great IEM (one of my personal favorites), but overpriced in it’s own right ($1.5k would have been about right). I’d need a long listening session to determine if the whole of the Phonix delivers the same magic as the VE8… the latter is certainly not a perfect IEM, but it has some of the best mids in the business, and it’s signature is uniquely balanced to perfectly deliver that particular range.

I’m a fan of the brand, so I’ve bit my tongue, but at this point, I think I’m doing them a disservice by not voicing my opinion (and it is just that, my opinion, so nobody get too bent out of shape).

Frankly, Vision Ears needs to either rethink their prices or step up their game.

Someone compared the Phonix’s lack of bass extension and sub bass to the Odin’s upper mid-bump… both are faults, sure, but the Odin’s flaw is due to the difficulty of attaining perfect cohesion within a sound signature that easily hits the entire spectrum of audible sound. The Phonix literally can’t replicate frequencies that many $500 IEMs can. With respect, that’s like comparing two multi-million dollar race cars, one of which has a jerky 3rd gear because the car’s gearing must balance low-end torque for super acceleration with tall upper gears for those 250mph straight-aways … while the other car tops out at 85mph. The first car might require some patience at specific points in the race, but the other car… well, the other car isn’t really racing, is it?

With a $2k specialty mids machine like the VE8, an inability to hit bass frequencies that are taken for granted with other similarly priced IEMs can almost be forgiven as a quirk of the unique VE8 experience. I know I forgive them every time I listen to them, love them as I do.

But the Phonix… at $4k, we’re talking a price tag indicative of range-topping ultra-exotic flagships. We’re talking race cars… and it’s unacceptable. Bring the pain at every frequency, or you’re not in the conversation in that tier of IEM. Period, full stop.

Maybe you have fit problems with Phönix?
This IEM has a good BA bass, enough to me at least, but i recognize that the fit it’s not the best in some VE IEMs like Elysium…that it was difficult to me to fit…
And the bad fit means no sub-bass…

 

[Tristy]

Tristy, how does the EXT fair against your Odin?

Very very different IEM's. What aspects do you specifically want to know about?

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Very very different IEM's. What aspects do you specifically want to know about?

Well... they both are implemented similarly. I'm not gonna ask for technical details... to much too type. Which one sounds better to your ears?

 

[Tristy]

Well... they both are implemented similarly. I'm not gonna ask for technical details... to much too type. Which one sounds better to your ears?

Honestly, I crave listening to both depending on my mood. The EXT is getting most of my ear time lately, whether that be due to new toy syndrome (not so new now) or a preference for it over Odin. I don't know. I enjoy Odin and crave its energetic, concise signature a lot, EXT cannot hold a candle to its detail retrieval and pin sharp imaging and layering. However, EXT just does nothing wrong and it sounds so natural, tangible and fun. It's great at all aspects in the FR and it's really easy to listen to while not feeling like a technical step down from Odin, more like a different flavour of TOTL tuning.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Honestly, I crave listening to both depending on my mood. The EXT is getting most of my ear time lately, whether that be due to new toy syndrome (not so new now) or a preference for it over Odin. I don't know. I enjoy Odin and crave its energetic, concise signature a lot, EXT cannot hold a candle to its detail retrieval and pin sharp imaging and layering. However, EXT just does nothing wrong and it sounds so natural, tangible and fun. It's great at all aspects in the FR and it's really easy to listen to while not feeling like a technical step down from Odin, more like a different flavour of TOTL tuning.

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I loved the Odin when I owned it. My favorite so far.

 

[Earbones]

I agree that U12t is an amazing sounding IEM, especially for its price point in today’s market. But I would disagree that U12t is an outright “superior” IEM to Phonix. From a technicalities standpoint, I would argue that Phonix is superior to U12t in a few (not all) aspects. I also don’t agree with the statement “The Phonix literally can’t replicate frequencies that many $500 IEMs can” - I can most definitely hear sub bass with Phonix, but it isn’t as pronounced compared to U12t with the m15/m20 modules for example. I believe this is a tuning choice rather than a limitation of the hardware.

Regarding the $4k price tag - Diminishing returns starts kicking in pretty hard basically past the $1k mark with IEM’s in terms of sound quality imo. You’re paying for design, build quality, brand/prestige/bragging rights, accessories and packaging. Phonix, imho, absolutely feels “worth the price” on those metrics compared to other IEM’s I’ve owned in this price category.

The U12T/A is perhaps the best all-rounder available. It does everything very, very well… but not one particular aspect of the sound is class-leading. I would flipping hope that a $4,000 IEM would be technically more proficient in one or two aspects. And I would agree with you that the Phonix boasts superior resolution in the mids.

However, with respect, you seem to be suffering from a very old and very misguided notion regarding high-end IEMs/cans. Truthfully, I used to as well. And the number of likes your post received suggests that a few others on here may be as well… so you’re in good company, ha ha.

But let’s dispense with this right away… the idea that top-end IEMs are about “design, build quality, brand/prestige/bragging rights, accessories and packaging” is an old trope, and a seductive one. Often, it’s difficult to ascertain exactly what makes a really good $500 IEM different from a really good $3k one. And often, one falls into the trap of comparing the IEMs piecemeal… bass to bass, mids to mids, etc.

This is a mistake.

You are correct when you state that diminishing returns kick in after a certain price point is hit, particularly when the discussion is about comparing specific aspects of the sound. But that’s not what ultra high-end IEMs are about. As I stated, to play at that level, it is taken for granted that an IEM will feature world-class performance from the lows through the highs.

The trick… and what that makes one honest-to-God $4k IEM better than another honest-to-God $4k IEM (and worlds above IEMs that don’t punch at that level) is balance. It’s that word again… cohesion. It’s the balancing of all those amazing distinct aspects of sound to create a cohesive, sublime signature… hopefully with a personality and point of view. Class-leading bass can often bleed into the lower mids. How do you keep detail and resolution in the mids? Put them forward? That can make the upper mids shouty, and in return, diminish the highs. It’s a balancing act.

Somebody touched on it with the Odin’s mid-bass bump. That is a great example. An honest-to-God $4k IEM struggling to balance world-class bass, world-class mids, and world-class treble. It does a fantastic job, but no, it’s not perfect. Spoiler… nothing is. This hobby is all about finding the signature with the strengths you love and the flaws you can tolerate.

My issue with the Phonix is that it is not an honest-to-God $4k IEM. It doesn’t feature world-class bass. Don’t give me the “it’s pretty great for BA” excuse… There’s a reason I brought up the U12T, ha ha. But the other reason, and why I stand by my statement that the U12T is the superior IEM, is that it’s beautifully balanced. It takes what it has (and again, what is has is very, very, good, but not world-class), and creates a beautiful balanced, cohesive signature. The U12T/A beats the Phonix in the same way a basketball team featuring talented journeymen players working well together as a unit might beat a disorganized team that features a couple of super-star players.

The Phonix objectively does not. And it objectively does not have world-class sound across the board, from bottom to top. And that’s unacceptable for a $4k IEM.

Listen. I like Vision Ears. As I said, the VE8 is a favorite, I own it, and I enjoy it, flaws and all. I like it so much, I bought a fancy custom Plussound cable for it, for entirely too much money, and as some of the regulars on here know, that’s saying something for me…. because I hate fancy cables.

I think Vision Ears has a very special sound… that idea of personality and point of view again. They’ve got that in spades. And dammit, I want their technicalities to catch up with that, so I can hear an honest-to-God $4k IEM from them. If they made one, I’d buy it in a second. But the Phonix ain’t it.

 

[Damz87]

The U12T/A is perhaps the best all-rounder available. It does everything very, very well… but not one particular aspect of the sound is class-leading. I would flipping hope that a $4,000 IEM would be technically more proficient in one or two aspects. And I would agree with you that the Phonix boasts superior resolution in the mids.

However, with respect, you seem to be suffering from a very old and very misguided notion regarding high-end IEMs/cans. Truthfully, I used to as well. And the number of likes your post received suggests that a few others on here may be as well… so you’re in good company, ha ha.

But let’s dispense with this right away… the idea that top-end IEMs are about “design, build quality, brand/prestige/bragging rights, accessories and packaging” is an old trope, and a seductive one. Often, it’s difficult to ascertain exactly what makes a really good $500 IEM different from a really good $3k one. And often, one falls into the trap of comparing the IEMs piecemeal… bass to bass, mids to mids, etc.

This is a mistake.

You are correct when you state that diminishing returns kick in after a certain price point is hit, particularly when the discussion is about comparing specific aspects of the sound. But that’s not what ultra high-end IEMs are about. As I stated, to play at that level, it is taken for granted that an IEM will have class-leading performance in each of these categories.

The trick… and what that makes one honest-to-God $4k IEM better than another honest-to-God $4k IEM (and worlds above IEMs that don’t punch at that level) is balance. It’s that word again… cohesion. It’s the balancing of all those amazing distinct aspects of sound to create a cohesive, sublime signature… hopefully with a personality and point of view. Class-leading bass can often bleed into the lower mids. How do you keep detail and resolution in the mids? Put them forward? That can make the upper mids shouty, and in return, diminish the highs. It’s a balancing act.

Somebody touched on it with the Odin’s mid-bass bump. That is a great example. An honest-to-God $4k IEM struggling to balance world-class bass, mids, and treble. It does a fantastic job, but no, it’s not perfect. Spoiler… nothing is. This hobby is all about finding the signature with the strengths you love and the flaws you can tolerate.

My issue with the Phonix is that it is not an honest-to-God $4k IEM. It doesn’t feature world-class bass. Don’t give me the “it’s pretty great for BA” excuse… There’s a reason I brought up the U12T, ha ha. But the other reason, and why I stand by my statement that the U12T is the superior IEM, is that it’s beautifully balanced. It takes what it has (and again, what is has is very, very, good, but not world-class), and creates a beautiful balanced, cohesive signature.

The Phonix objectively does not. And it objectively does not have world-class sound across the board, from bottom to top. And that’s unacceptable for a $4k IEM.

I get what you’re saying, and I think it’s completely fair to expect world-class sound across the board at such a high price point. It sounds like you’re pretty satisfied with U12t. If I were you, I would consider that a win, and perhaps consider sailing off into the sunset to enjoy the music

But the reality is, there are many that will not share your opinion, and not enjoy U12t anywhere near as much as you do. A common complaint about U12t is that it lacks engagement, is boring, and/or find the smoothed out transients too soft and unexciting. Some have even said that they find the bass quite textureless. I’m sure you will most likely disagree with those opinions and that’s totally fine (fwiw, I thoroughly enjoy U12t too). But the point I’m trying to make is, a U12t may not be worth it’s $2k price tag to these people at all, and these same people may absolutely love Phonix’s sound profile and find it much more valuable than U12t, even at $4k. So it’s all relative.

 

[Tristy]

The U12T/A is perhaps the best all-rounder available. It does everything very, very well… but not one particular aspect of the sound is class-leading. I would flipping hope that a $4,000 IEM would be technically more proficient in one or two aspects. And I would agree with you that the Phonix boasts superior resolution in the mids.

However, with respect, you seem to be suffering from a very old and very misguided notion regarding high-end IEMs/cans. Truthfully, I used to as well. And the number of likes your post received suggests that a few others on here may be as well… so you’re in good company, ha ha.

But let’s dispense with this right away… the idea that top-end IEMs are about “design, build quality, brand/prestige/bragging rights, accessories and packaging” is an old trope, and a seductive one. Often, it’s difficult to ascertain exactly what makes a really good $500 IEM different from a really good $3k one. And often, one falls into the trap of comparing the IEMs piecemeal… bass to bass, mids to mids, etc.

This is a mistake.

You are correct when you state that diminishing returns kick in after a certain price point is hit, particularly when the discussion is about comparing specific aspects of the sound. But that’s not what ultra high-end IEMs are about. As I stated, to play at that level, it is taken for granted that an IEM will feature world-class performance from the lows through the highs.

The trick… and what that makes one honest-to-God $4k IEM better than another honest-to-God $4k IEM (and worlds above IEMs that don’t punch at that level) is balance. It’s that word again… cohesion. It’s the balancing of all those amazing distinct aspects of sound to create a cohesive, sublime signature… hopefully with a personality and point of view. Class-leading bass can often bleed into the lower mids. How do you keep detail and resolution in the mids? Put them forward? That can make the upper mids shouty, and in return, diminish the highs. It’s a balancing act.

Somebody touched on it with the Odin’s mid-bass bump. That is a great example. An honest-to-God $4k IEM struggling to balance world-class bass, world-class mids, and world-class treble. It does a fantastic job, but no, it’s not perfect. Spoiler… nothing is. This hobby is all about finding the signature with the strengths you love and the flaws you can tolerate.

My issue with the Phonix is that it is not an honest-to-God $4k IEM. It doesn’t feature world-class bass. Don’t give me the “it’s pretty great for BA” excuse… There’s a reason I brought up the U12T, ha ha. But the other reason, and why I stand by my statement that the U12T is the superior IEM, is that it’s beautifully balanced. It takes what it has (and again, what is has is very, very, good, but not world-class), and creates a beautiful balanced, cohesive signature. The U12T/A beats the Phonix in the same way a basketball team featuring talented journeymen players working well together as a unit might beat a disorganized team that features a couple of super-star players.

The Phonix objectively does not. And it objectively does not have world-class sound across the board, from bottom to top. And that’s unacceptable for a $4k IEM.

Listen. I like Vision Ears. As I said, the VE8 is a favorite, I own it, and I enjoy it, flaws and all. I like it so much, I bought a fancy custom Plussound cable for it, for entirely too much money, and as some of the regulars on here know, that’s saying something for me…. because I hate fancy cables.

I think Vision Ears has a very special sound… that idea of personality and point of view again. They’ve got that in spades. And dammit, I want their technicalities to catch up with that, so I can hear an honest-to-God $4k IEM from them. If they made one, I’d buy it in a second. But the Phonix ain’t it.

Honestly, you sound extremely pretentious. I find the U12t lacking in many areas and, for me, it is beaten by the likes of the Solaris SE in the metrics that I deem count. It was also $400 less than the U12t when it was on sale. So what makes your opinion or view of what should be considered summit fi sound reside over my own or someone else’s that feel that Phonix belongs in the 4K bracket?

 

[GiullianSN]

One can have a Range Rover for over $300k AUD or a Ferrari for $400k, both special cars. But for sure they are not the same and have different Values (price/feeling) for different people. Value is value, Hobby is a hobby, not matter how much you spend and where.

 

[Pascal3366]

One can have a Range Rover for over $300k AUD or a Ferrari for $400k, both special cars. But for sure they are not the same and have different Values (price/feeling) for different people. Value is value, Hobby is a hobby, not matter how much you spend and where.

I would rather buy a Camaro ZL1 1LE for 100k.

Much more fun.

 

[GiullianSN]

I would rather buy a Camaro ZL1 1LE for 100k.

Much more fun.

I almost mentioned the Mustang and Camaro that would be a quarter of the price with same horsepower as a Ferrari … but yeah, “fun” is also relative.

 

[normie610]

I almost mentioned the Mustang and Camaro that would be a quarter of the price with same horsepower as a Ferrari … but yeah, “fun” is also relative.

I’ll take the BMW M4

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

I’ll take the BMW M4

Pre rabbit tooth version? Lol