[MrGuzmanWhite]

And i bet it won't be for a long time

Yeap, agreed.
 
I would recommend to start away of any LH Audio products that are announced or to be very cautions and believe only half of what they tell.
 
I am a backer of the initial Geek Out and the Geek Pulse. After a long wait the Geek Out was delivered but after 18 months I am still waiting for the Geek Pulse. Think about it, this is a HeadPhone Amp with a DAC (no top tech these days) and they have delayed by close to 1 year from the time the promised to deliver the product. Moreover, the Geek Out was released with a faulty firmware that I have not been able to upgrade so the Geek Out is practically unusable for me. Still waiting for the Geek Pulse and meanwhile they announced thousands or perks and changes and products that I believe unfocused their ability to deliver the products they promised. 
 
What I learn is this. LH Audio will promised and promised and will delay and delay and then I am not assure that the quality of the products is noticeable better or cheaper than products you can buy in the market. For all the reasons I suggest caution to get too excited when they announce new products.

 

[soundblast75]

Yeap, agreed.

I would recommend to start away of any LH Audio products that are announced or to be very cautions and believe only half of what they tell.

I am a backer of the initial Geek Out and the Geek Pulse. After a long wait the Geek Out was delivered but after 18 months I am still waiting for the Geek Pulse. Think about it, this is a HeadPhone Amp with a DAC (no top tech these days) and they have delayed by close to 1 year from the time the promised to deliver the product. Moreover, the Geek Out was released with a faulty firmware that I have not been able to upgrade so the Geek Out is practically unusable for me. Still waiting for the Geek Pulse and meanwhile they announced thousands or perks and changes and products that I believe unfocused their ability to deliver the products they promised. 

What I learn is this. LH Audio will promised and promised and will delay and delay and then I am not assure that the quality of the products is noticeable better or cheaper than products you can buy in the market. For all the reasons I suggest caution to get too excited when they announce new products.

I could smell too much ********, lack of clarity and no deadline announced which is not how these things(kickstarter) are done!

 

[fp581]

that's y it's in indiegogo a site with no backbone for the backers,
 
Quote:

Bottom line is that no DAP being sold today can hold a candle to an iPod/iPhone/Android attached to a good DAC/amp.

 
i just cant say enough on how wrong can you be, just try any mp3 player really even the amazing for it's price sansa clip and you will hear the deference or if you want you can take a really high def player like the tera or the sony zx or many more crazy players out there are way way better then any phone with an amp nowdays   

 

[Earbones]

   
i just cant say enough on how wrong can you be, just try any mp3 player really even the amazing for it's price sansa clip and you will hear the deference or if you want you can take a really high def player like the tera or the sony zx or many more crazy players out there are way way better then any phone with an amp nowdays   

I agree, you can't say enough how wrong I am... Because I'm not.
 
Remember, we're talking about an iOS device with an external DAC/Amp. That means that all the iOS is doing is acting as a supply for the digital information (the ones and zeros). The DAC takes over the responsibility of turning that digital info into analog sound. The external amp amplifies it. Do you really believe a Sony ZX1 holds a candle to an iPod Touch pushing DSD via the Onkyo HF player app with, say, a Chord Hugo? Seriously? Or to bring the price even with the Sony, an iPod Touch with an IFI Micro iDSD? It's not even close, brother. Different stratosphere.
 
Secondly, although iOS devices are disparaged to the point that people believe any $29 Amazon special will be an improvement, the facts are a little different. Google Ken Rockwell's measurements... They are an eye-opener and a reality check. If you want to do better than the Apple internal DAC/amp, you'll have to choose your components wisely.
 
Not saying there aren't some serious DAPs out there. But with lossless streaming already here and DSD streaming on the horizon, I'm seeing fewer and fewer reasons for them, barring the convenience/slickness factor. 
 
That all said, LH Labs have knocked some stuff out the park in the past. If the Wave offers a wide selection of streaming services, I don't see why it couldn't be a real contender for an all-in-one solution...

 

[fp581]

oh man... it's down sampling the music info then sends it to the really high price amp you got there, and another downside is that it's a phone so the life expectancy of that is 1 year,
plus the battery will last way lass time, you are depended on the internet so no international support for that (unless you pay for a sim card with connection with limitless internet download).
 
and for the apple internal dec/amp, it's not only that that counts on a player it's how you implement it, and they are doing a really not so good job compered to a player, it's not isolated from any other electronics inside the phone and the welding is as bad as you can get with a cheap metal,  so the sound you get is not clear at all.
 
i can go on and on but the fact is you can't say that phones are better music players then music players, thats just plain wrong,
you can buy the bast amp with half the price of the phone player and get a way better sound then the iphone with the same amp, or you can just get a tera player, fiio x5 (or the upcoming x7), ak240, dx90, hm901s with no added amp and get an amazing sound with no need of an internet connection or extra amp with tons of memory built in (or sd cards for the tera) 

 

[miceblue]

The upcoming OPPO HA-2 allows native streaming of 24/384 music and DSD256 via DoP without using an Apple Camera Connection Kit and without downsampling when using the Onkyo app. I much prefer the HA-2 over the stock iPhone's headphone jack.

 

[Earbones]

  oh man... it's down sampling the music info then sends it to the really high price amp you got there, and another downside is that it's a phone so the life expectancy of that is 1 year,
plus the battery will last way lass time, you are depended on the internet so no international support for that (unless you pay for a sim card with connection with limitless internet download).
 
and for the apple internal dec/amp, it's not only that that counts on a player it's how you implement it, and they are doing a really not so good job compered to a player, it's not isolated from any other electronics inside the phone and the welding is as bad as you can get with a cheap metal,  so the sound you get is not clear at all.
 
i can go on and on but the fact is you can't say that phones are better music players then music players, thats just plain wrong,
you can buy the bast amp with half the price of the phone player and get a way better sound then the iphone with the same amp, or you can just get a tera player, fiio x5 (or the upcoming x7), ak240, dx90, hm901s with no added amp and get an amazing sound with no need of an internet connection or extra amp with tons of memory built in (or sd cards for the tera) 

iOS running Onkyo HF isn't down sampling. Ditto for the 44.1 being pushed by Tidal. I have never had a battery issue with an iOS device... One year? No way. And as for being dependent on the internet... How so? Plug it into your computer and download files onto it as you would any DAP. And the you don't need a SIM card... Use WiFi. Even the more connected DAPs like the Sony you mentioned use only Wifi...
 
And you are making some wild assumptions about external DAC/amps... You believe there is some "magic implementation" a DAP enjoys that an iOS device paired with a good DAC/amp can't achieve? Again, the iOS device is just acting as basically file storage. All the audio magic is happening within the DAC/amp... In fact, a DAP is just a DAC/amp with storage and an OS added. Put it this way... Do you believe the LH Geek 1000 is somehow less implemented in the sound-producing DAC/amp portion than the Geek Wave? That doesn't make any sense.  And as for the materials and construction issue... Come on. You don't really believe the IFI or the Chord I mentioned suffer from cheap metal and bad soldering, so let's not even debate it.
 
You can go on as long as you like, but if you post a thread with a poll asking for the best mobile sound possible with the best connectivity, almost everyone on Head-fi is going to say iOS/Android device paired with an external DAC/amp device. Even the AK240 is gonna lose to an iPod with a Hugo. The only winning hand it brings to that card game is form factor.
 
Again, not saying some DAPs don't have their place. DAPs with full function connectivity via wifi for streaming, particularly... Especially if you're not pushing planars or something else hard to drive... I'm really stoked to see what the Geek Wave is all about.

 

[doublea71]

What is the max storage of an ios device nowadays? I don't doubt that pairing with a great amp/dac can compete with the best totl daps, but I personally want an all-in-one device that will fit in my pocket and has enough storage to hold a fair amount of high-res files should I choose to go down that road. I went in on the Geek Wave, but it'll be awhile before it's in production. It's tough being a backer, but nobody put a gun to my head, either...

 

[jamor]

  What is the max storage of an ios device nowadays? I don't doubt that pairing with a great amp/dac can compete with the best totl daps, but I personally want an all-in-one device that will fit in my pocket and has enough storage to hold a fair amount of high-res files should I choose to go down that road. I went in on the Geek Wave, but it'll be awhile before it's in production. It's tough being a backer, but nobody put a gun to my head, either...

 
Was there a release date posted for the Geek Wave series?

 

[doublea71]

   
Was there a release date posted for the Geek Wave series?

They're saying July, but things are always in flux with crowdfunded products. My guess is September, but that's based on nothing but my own cynicism having closely watched the campaign up to the present.

 

[miceblue]

iOS running Onkyo HF isn't down sampling.

Actually it does if the DAC can't handle the higher resolution files. Apple's DACs can only decode up to 16/48 music.

 

[Earbones]

What is the max storage of an ios device nowadays? I don't doubt that pairing with a great amp/dac can compete with the best totl daps, but I personally want an all-in-one device that will fit in my pocket and has enough storage to hold a fair amount of high-res files should I choose to go down that road. I went in on the Geek Wave, but it'll be awhile before it's in production. It's tough being a backer, but nobody put a gun to my head, either...

128gb. Storage is definitely the iOS devices Achilles' heal... That said, iOS with it's ecosystem of connectivity simplifies the problem of getting stuff on your device, so assuming one can get used to turning over their library a bit more often, it's not that big a deal. And of course with Android devices with SD card slots, it's a non-issue. I've focused mainly on iOS devices, but my points stand across the spectrum, Microsoft mobile devices included... The phone is just taking the place of the storage/OS portion of a DAP.

Actually it does if the DAC can't handle the higher resolution files. Apple's DACs can only decode up to 16/48 music.

Well, of course. This is assuming the external DAC/Amp device can handle higher resolution files. This has no bearing on the argument... Plenty of DAPs feature DACs that can't support DSD.

A DAP consists of four main parts: a storage drive, an OS interface, a DAC and an amp. A mobile device with an external DAC/amp device just divides the four functions into two devices... Storage and OS on the mobile device, DAC and amp on the external device. No storage drive can "handle" higher resolution audio files- either on a DAP or on a phone. All it does is store the ones and zeros. Transforming that digital data into analog sound ("handling it") is the DAC's job...

 

[Mannytorres]

 
Yeap, agreed.
 
I would recommend to start away of any LH Audio products that are announced or to be very cautions and believe only half of what they tell.
 
I am a backer of the initial Geek Out and the Geek Pulse. After a long wait the Geek Out was delivered but after 18 months I am still waiting for the Geek Pulse. Think about it, this is a HeadPhone Amp with a DAC (no top tech these days) and they have delayed by close to 1 year from the time the promised to deliver the product. Moreover, the Geek Out was released with a faulty firmware that I have not been able to upgrade so the Geek Out is practically unusable for me. Still waiting for the Geek Pulse and meanwhile they announced thousands or perks and changes and products that I believe unfocused their ability to deliver the products they promised. 
 
What I learn is this. LH Audio will promised and promised and will delay and delay and then I am not assure that the quality of the products is noticeable better or cheaper than products you can buy in the market. For all the reasons I suggest caution to get too excited when they announce new products.

We are shipping Pulse units as we speak, and will begin to get more Pulse X models out the door come next week, We are in the last quarter of getting the Pulse unit to the masses, when you include the development, production and fulfillment of the Pulse which by the way typically will take any other company much longer then two years to do. 

 

[Arturoo123]

  This is why I won't support you - and why I think your campaign is questionable.  If your product is good - let it speak for itself, don't try and besmirch the competition:
 

 
Lets look at the actual facts shall we:
 

• OK - you support 32bit over 24bit, but the difference is simply padding - and in actual audible terms means nothing.
• Have you actually listened to the difference between native DSD and PCM converted DSD?  Guess what - inaudible if converted properly
• What on earth is this marketing speak - "Audio Optimised AOS1" vs "Proprietary UI".  What does this even mean?  Both have a GUI.  Both work.  What does "Audio Optimised" have to do with anything.  You could argue the the X5's GUI is also "Audio Optimised".  More evidence of a poorly thought out marketing spiel targeting a particular brand - why are you scared of Fiio?
• Total possible storage - you show dual SDXC capable of up to 4TB (theoretically when the cards materialise in a few years), yet you only show Fiios as 256Gb "TF" card.  Their support is actually same as yours - dual SDXC.  Why lie about it?
• Battery life = >10 hours vs >10 hours "with fw adjustment".  Why add that?  Battery life has been consistently over 11 hours on my X5 from day 1.  FW can make it better - but again it's these little snide additions made with the express purpose of putting a single competitor down which have worried me from the start.
• Stand alone DAC - yes vs none.  I note you still haven't fixed this.  The X5 has a stand alone DAC.  It's had one from the beginning.  Blatant lie.
• THD performance - why not put up direct comparison @ 22.5 kHz with Fiio's?  And what has the noise at 90 kHz have to do with anything?

 
What I really want to know is why you singled out the X5 specifically in comparison to your Geek gear.  It even shows in this (laughable) diagram:
 

 
I personally find your marketing methods highly questionable, completely unethical, and because of this - I would never support your product.
 
Fiio works with the community here, have delivered on time, and only has good things to say about their competition.  I've never seen them run-down a competitor in public.  Why - because they don't have to.  They are confident in their own ability.  That is the sign of a classy company and honest campaign.
 
IMO - yours is not.

I'm not a Fiio fan, but I must agree with this.

 

[Jimmyf1312]

I think the IGG promotional video should have used more sad, slow piano music to get me to buy their product.