[swapper]

  Great idea. Why not?   Maybe I could leave a 5V power-only output connector in the front and 12V DC in the back. Let them both have power on the same time.
The cost will somehow higher, but you are right. It will help Geek Out users! 
Let me think and plan more, but the possibility is 90% here.  
Larry

---
I love this idea!

 

[FraGGleR]

I wouldn't. The m8 sounds terrible.

A lot of folks would disagree with terrible.

 

[tomscy2000]

  Man alive the expectations on this thread are out of control.  
I'll admit that I was hoping to keep RCA output on the balanced option, but I understand the limitations of the design and the size. Even for the extra cost, the Pulse is still very cheap for a full dual mono balanced amplifier (with tons of power) based around a top line ESS Sabre chipset that can handle nearly every format out there.  

+2...
 

  A lot of folks would disagree with terrible.

 
+4... I'm not actually a big fan of the M8, but it definitely doesn't sound "terrible".

 

[FraGGleR]

BTW, for those who have single ended amps that they want to use with the fully balanced Pulse, here are some questions I asked with Larry's answers:
 
Larry,

I'm excited for the dual-mono, especially for the headphone out. For the balanced line out, I have two questions: 1) Will the gain control also effect these? 2) Will using an XLR-RCA adapter harm the DAC in any way?

I have some fairly sensitive desktop speakers that are single-ended only and would like to know if the balanced Pulse will work ok with them.

1) Yes. Gain control still works here! 

2) Nop. XLR-RCA adapter is fine.

3) Geek Pulse X will work with your desktop speakers.

Larry

 

[zerodeefex]

 
A lot of folks would disagree with terrible.

 
The DACport was a great price/performance item and, based off the 2 weeks I spent with one, I'm picking one up to do a direct comparison to the other competitors in the space. The M8 suffers from trying to appeal to all the random input from folks on HF. It definitely is not a priceerformance king.
 
Given how favorable the impressions are of the GEEK Out by some very very picky individuals, I suspect the balanced Pulse at the early adopter pricing will be a stellar deal.

 

[FraGGleR]

   
The DACport was a great price/performance item and, based off the 2 weeks I spent with one, I'm picking one up to do a direct comparison to the other competitors in the space. The M8 suffers from trying to appeal to all the random input from folks on HF. It definitely is not a priceerformance king.
 
Given how favorable the impressions are of the GEEK Out by some very very picky individuals, I suspect the balanced Pulse at the early adopter pricing will be a stellar deal.

A danger that the Pulse could succumb to if LH tries to please the folks in this thread.  Quasi-open source design is hard because once you ask everyone's opinion, you will get too many that aren't practical, and everyone is going to be insulted if their suggestion isn't taken.
 
Personally, I enjoy the M8 and think it provides good performance and flexibility for the money.  I don't expect every device to be some sort of giant killer.  I think that the Pulse has the chance to surpass the M8 on value in my anticipated setup, so I am excited.  

 

[zerodeefex]

  A danger that the Pulse could succumb to if LH tries to please the folks in this thread.  Quasi-open source design is hard because once you ask everyone's opinion, you will get too many that aren't practical, and everyone is going to be insulted if their suggestion isn't taken.
 
Personally, I enjoy the M8 and think it provides good performance and flexibility for the money.  I don't expect every device to be some sort of giant killer.  I think that the Pulse has the chance to surpass the M8 on value in my anticipated setup, so I am excited.  

 
Agreed with you on this point. I suspect that Larry will go the direction that he thinks is best. It's pretty clear so far that the LH team takes input but doesn't seem to stray very far from their initial vision. 

 

[NinjaHamster]

  A danger that the Pulse could succumb to if LH tries to please the folks in this thread.  Quasi-open source design is hard because once you ask everyone's opinion, you will get too many that aren't practical, and everyone is going to be insulted if their suggestion isn't taken.
 
Personally, I enjoy the M8 and think it provides good performance and flexibility for the money.  I don't expect every device to be some sort of giant killer.  I think that the Pulse has the chance to surpass the M8 on value in my anticipated setup, so I am excited.  

Yes, there is a danger that if LHLabs is stupid, that that stupidity could destroy the company. Do you REALLY think that this is a danger - that LHLabs will implement every suggestion, without performing some form of analysis ?  If so, they deserve to die as a company.  LHLabs will implement only those suggestions which are sensible and "doable" for the price. Some people will be happy, some won't. I'm pretty sure this is all understood.

 

[FraGGleR]

  Yes, there is a danger that if LHLabs is stupid, that that stupidity could destroy the company. Do you REALLY think that this is a danger - that LHLabs will implement every suggestion, without performing some form of analysis ?  If so, they deserve to die as a company.  LHLabs will implement only those suggestions which are sensible and "doable" for the price. Some people will be happy, some won't. I'm pretty sure this is all understood.

No, I don't think they are stupid at all, but you don't have to be stupid to make a mistake or miss something in the market if you have a really small team or are doing something for the first time (new product, new target market, different funding campaign, etc.)  I think LHlabs is doing very well right now and am happy with their decisions.  Mainly, I brought this up for consideration as a counterpoint to what Zerodeefex had said.  I personally don't think CEntrance screwed up with the M8 at all, and if he thought that they did, then it is certainly a possibility here since it is still early.
 
I brought this stuff up because many of the comments here and on the LHlabs site show that very few people understand all of this.  

 

[NinjaHamster]

  No, I don't think they are stupid at all, but you don't have to be stupid to make a mistake or miss something in the market if you have a really small team or are doing something for the first time (new product, new target market, different funding campaign, etc.)  I think LHlabs is doing very well right now and am happy with their decisions.  Mainly, I brought this up for consideration as a counterpoint to what Zerodeefex had said.  I personally don't think CEntrance screwed up with the M8 at all, and if he thought that they did, then it is certainly a possibility here since it is still early.
 
I brought this stuff up because many of the comments here and on the LHlabs site show that very few people understand all of this.  

I agree with you.  I think that LHLabs are failing a little in the "simple communication to existing/potential customers" at the moment.  I'm hoping they clear up all confusion shortly - as you said, they are a small team, and far from perfect. Provided their responses are direct, honest and forthcoming, I'm sure that few of us will have a problem.

 

[Zoo Animal]

I do wonder if this is what has happened with this upgrade. With all the requests for the desktop version of the Sabre chip/upgraded dac section and all of the sudden we have a cost upgrade that is affiliated with the balanced version. I am sure the dual dacs sound better and make more sense in a balanced design but it also sounds like the similar balanced output could have been achieved without upgrading the dacs. 

From my own work, when you start incorporating ideas that aren't your own/non-linear to your way of thinking, it's easy to get thrown a little off balance. Typically, a little break brings everything into perspective but then they have that Indiegogo clock ticking down and staring right at them. 

They have already implemented nearly everything off our poll list. That is quite a few new things to think about at once.

 

[Joamonte]

No.  Check the page on Indiegogo.  If you have already put money down for the Geek Pulse at $249, you need only add an extra $140 to convert this to a Geek Pulse X (balanced) - this info is not different from what they have on their Idiegogo page.  My info is the same as their info (although my info may actually be more clearly presented than theirs - communication skills are, unfortunately, not their "strong point" to say the least).  

No, you don't need to pay for the Geek Pulse X and then subtract the price you have already paid for the Geek Pulse. Just add $140 to your "Contribution amount" and I PROMISE you, you will be entitled to a Geek Pulse X (balanced).

As regards your other expression, yes - I share your discomfort and you absolutely have a valid point.  However, this will be a true balanced (dual mono) update, and the balanced output was never absolutely promised for the Geek Pulse (though they did state it may be an option).  I can understand your frustration at having this option cost so much more, but at least it will be done right.  Truly this is an exercise in how NOT to run a successful (other than money garnered) campaign, and it creates all sorts of "bad will" amongst the customers.  Sufficed to say though, that if you want, or need, balanced outputs and have already paid $249, you need only contribute $140 more to receive the Geek Pulse X (balanced).

I think you are a more better communicator than me , so I hope you don't mind help me to check with the LH lab directly what is the reason they unable to provide DSD DoP over SPDIF or AES/EBU, I have ask a few time but they don't seem to interested in answer me.

I need this function because my Soundaware D100 pro music server do not have USB out, and I need a DAC that able to receive the music server DSD by AES/EBU like the Mytek DAC.

TIA

 

[Joamonte]

The reason why some of us have a sour taste in our mouth is because all this while, we've been told that they have been saying stuff like, " we've been working on balanced / balanced is achievable / confident it can be done", and making it sound as if this feature was going to be included inside the vanilla geek pulse.

To quote Larry,

"Larry Ho said 22 hours ago
Hi, all

Balance output, we hear you. Actually our internal circuit is fully balance from beginning all the way before headphone driver. So line out could have balance output for sure.

So my plan for now is two configuration. One RCA version, one mini XLR version…

Give us few days. We will work it out.

Larry"



Larry said that quite some time back, during the early stages of the campaign. I don't think it's presumptous on my part to read what he said then and come to the conclusion that i don't need to top up to get balanced, because the original circuit design is already fully balanced.

There's been so many official messages from the LH team specifically about balanced. Yet none of these messages brought up the subject of extra cost. I think they could have communicated this aspect much, much better to everyone.

I'm not topping up for the balanced. It's not even an upgrade. I'm paying extra money to restrict myself to only balanced outputs. Sure, there are adapters, but then there's no point.

+100

Can't agree more.....LH lab, I hope you can hear us, $140 is really a huge different for a $249 Product, it is more than 50% so to say...

 

[jexby]

  A lot of folks would disagree with terrible.

 
Perhaps my request for some less-than-awe-inspiring reviews should be moved to the M8 thread instead of here,
as I too haven't seen many detractors of the CEntrance M8.
sure, nothing is perfect or giant killer.  but some balanced reviews of the M8 would be appreciated elsewhere if ya'll have the inclination.
thanks.

 

[Charnwood]

I've gone with the Geek Pulse X upgrade but I'm annoyed that we loose the USB input and the DSD functionality as a consequence. Why an AES input? Who are they targeting this at?