[agisthos]

Not to mention they had to build and ship thousands of products, not hundreds. The profit margin always ends up being smaller than you think.
The failure of LHLabs is on who costed all these items, and what the expenditure over time was going to be to deliver them.
Selling 4 DaVinic DAC's per month to dealers is a totally different business than selling 1000 Geek Outs direct to consumer.

 

[bernardperu]

Hi everyone, I agree we should not resort to name-calling. I apologize if I have made the members of this forum uncomfortable in the past by putting some heavy pressure on LH Labs. I have not resorted to name-calling and everything I state are just observations.

Above all else, we should embrace disagreement on our quest to getting LH Labs to ship our stuff or refund our money.

We should observe the following facts:

1) LH Labs has raised approximately 6 million dollars of our money.
2) LH Labs refuses to provide deadlines of delivery.
3) LH Labs refuses to provide refunds (even to those who would settle just for a portion of their initial investment).
4) LH Labs refuses to provide updates on % of delivered items for all products (5-8 in total), except for the Pulse which they claim has a 94% successful delivery rate.
5) Most backers have not received their items and most items have not been delivered.
6) Larry Ho seems to be the Director of the company that has his initials (what a coincidence!).
7) We are unaware of how this company is actually formed and they refuse to provide data on their actual structure. The owner of LH Labs corporation is Yuan He (who is this person who is legally responsible for all this fiasco?)
8) Larry Ho aims on staying in the audio industry.

I really feel we backers are lost and we do not have any clear clues on whether our items will be ever delivered or not.

Anyone has any more facts to add?

 

[hotteen]

1) LH Labs has raised approximately 6 million dollars of our money.

Does your number include the "perks" that were pushed so shamelessly by LH Labs?

 

[bernardperu]

Does your number include the "perks" that were pushed so shamelessly by LH Labs?

It is an approximate number that does not include the little Geek Outs, but includes everything else I have found.

Last but not least, I was looking into Indiegogo campaigns and for the following products: Wave, Pulse, and Vi Dac they have raised 30 times more money than what they needed in order to fund the development of the products we purchased. 30 times more!

It is my opinion that LH Labs planned from the very beginning not to deliver most products, as the only possible alternative for miscalculating the crowdfunding goal by a % of 3,000% equals total business planning inefficiency. Looks like we bought the Brooklyn Bridge.

 

[m17xr2b]

I don't believe they were planning not to deliver, at least not from the beginning, but when I saw the headphone and power amp stuff it was pretty clear those will not be delivered.

 

[Zenifyx]

How did they burn through MILLIONS?....

Big fat bonuses maybe, that would explain it

 

[purk]

Yes, it cost $$$$ to run the business but it is illegal to not deliver the products. Plus many pulse units are not reliable and having issues.

 

[Hercules]

LH Labs also moved facilities and extra office in US and overseas after Crowdfunding, the fund partially used to their expansion but not delivering our products, using below-par PCBA instead of their trusted PCBA for Da Vinci, eventually can't save any money but scrapped a lot assembled PCB with components, manual re-works also proven fruitless, wasting time and more money.

It's totally 100% LH Labs sole responsibility how their collocate the fund and resource, and how to use it, none of our backers responsible, but we are the one suffered.

 

[bernardperu]

Many Hi End Audio manufacturers and publications are very angry at LH Labs and the owner with the LH initials. The reason of this anger is obvious: LH Labs has single handedly caused a large damage to the industry by crippling the level of trust and the industry's ability to find new venues of raising capital thru crowdfunding, not to mention the possibility of web sites such as Head-Fi to find advertisement thanks to these advertisement campaigns that will never happen. Everyone has to pay for this 6 million dollar fiasco. Sooner or later the media and the Federal Authorities will have no choice but to pay attention to this story.

Here is a very interesting quote by an angry "colleague" of Larry Ho:

"
Interesting that when asked about plans to exhibit at 2018 audio shows, LH Lab's rep Stuck Limo on Head-Fi replied:



CES, CanJam in RMAF. Three shows in Japan and two in Hong Kong. One in Singapore. And one in Bristol. Hopefully showing the Wave, Tesla, and something else LH hopes will excite people.

No guarantees on any of these, and Larry is still deciding on what best ones to visit. Right now the Asian market is absolutely exploding with headphone and audiophile gear, while the US market seems to be stagnating or shrinking, so obviously that's a consideration. CanJam is definitely being heavily eyed though for the States. CES is being debated.



Now, in a former role (as co-founder and VP Sales & Marketing for Hovland Company, 1999-2009) I did a lot of trade shows. Mostly CES, but also attended as guest with our overseas distributors in Japan and Germany.

Let's say LH Labs is going to be conservative and send just 3 people to each of these shows. Consider freight costs, the shows own drayage and exhibit fees, hotels, airfare, meals, entertaining, marketing materials, etc.

I would estimate that if they exhibited at all 9 of the above mentioned shows, they would be spending a total of between $375,000 to $475,000.

And he mentions they might preview another new product. It would be an understatement to say that there are a lot of folks waiting on long overdue products who would prefer that LH Labs put those funds and the time into producing and delivering the goods.



BTW, I can recall at least one year at Hovland when we cancelled our CES room (even forfeiting our deposits) to stay home and put all hands on deck to get promised amps and preamps out the door. It is called responsibility to ones' stakeholders.

"

 

[spyder1]

BTW, I can recall at least one year at Hovland when we cancelled our CES room (even forfeiting our deposits) to stay home and put all hands on deck to get promised amps and preamps out the door. It is called responsibility to ones' stakeholders.

LH Labs should generate profit through the sale of products, instead of living off the interest from our money in their bank accounts.IMO

 

[stuck limo]

LH Labs should generate profit through the sale of products

We do, but whenever we state that, we get bashed for supposedly too much time on those products. (I am sure LH will get bashed on this post as well)

 

[stuck limo]

Many Hi End Audio manufacturers and publications are very angry at LH Labs and the owner with the LH initials. The reason of this anger is obvious: LH Labs has single handedly caused a large damage to the industry by crippling the level of trust and the industry's ability to find new venues of raising capital thru crowdfunding, not to mention the possibility of web sites such as Head-Fi to find advertisement thanks to these advertisement campaigns that will never happen. Everyone has to pay for this 6 million dollar fiasco. Sooner or later the media and the Federal Authorities will have no choice but to pay attention to this story.

Here is a very interesting quote by an angry "colleague" of Larry Ho:

"
Interesting that when asked about plans to exhibit at 2018 audio shows, LH Lab's rep Stuck Limo on Head-Fi replied:



CES, CanJam in RMAF. Three shows in Japan and two in Hong Kong. One in Singapore. And one in Bristol. Hopefully showing the Wave, Tesla, and something else LH hopes will excite people.

No guarantees on any of these, and Larry is still deciding on what best ones to visit. Right now the Asian market is absolutely exploding with headphone and audiophile gear, while the US market seems to be stagnating or shrinking, so obviously that's a consideration. CanJam is definitely being heavily eyed though for the States. CES is being debated.



Now, in a former role (as co-founder and VP Sales & Marketing for Hovland Company, 1999-2009) I did a lot of trade shows. Mostly CES, but also attended as guest with our overseas distributors in Japan and Germany.

Let's say LH Labs is going to be conservative and send just 3 people to each of these shows. Consider freight costs, the shows own drayage and exhibit fees, hotels, airfare, meals, entertaining, marketing materials, etc.

I would estimate that if they exhibited at all 9 of the above mentioned shows, they would be spending a total of between $375,000 to $475,000.

And he mentions they might preview another new product. It would be an understatement to say that there are a lot of folks waiting on long overdue products who would prefer that LH Labs put those funds and the time into producing and delivering the goods.



BTW, I can recall at least one year at Hovland when we cancelled our CES room (even forfeiting our deposits) to stay home and put all hands on deck to get promised amps and preamps out the door. It is called responsibility to ones' stakeholders.

"

LH is unfamiliar with this person. If you can provide a name, a source for the quote, and any other information, that would be helpful.

The figures this person you quoted are not entirely accurate, as at many of the shows, only one person attends (not the "conservative" number of 3). As for the pricing of the exhibits, we don't have those prices yet, so we can't comment, and we haven't even locked down which events we are attending. On a third note, most or all of the exhibits are paid for with non-IGG money, from our other products we sell to generate income.

 

[stuck limo]

He's welcome to PM it to me. EDIT: I found out who it probably is, 99% sure. I'd still like to know the source.

 

[marflao]

We do, but whenever we state that, we get bashed for supposedly too much time on those products. (I am sure LH will get bashed on this post as well)

The problem i have is that Larry's putting in that" innoncent role unaware of certain things who gets bashed whenever he wrotes something".

Pretty lame excuse to hide and don't share Infos (and I don't mean Infos regarding the sale of products).

 

[MikeyFresh]

He's welcome to PM it to me.

But for what purpose? No one owes LH Labs any justifications, or the ability to vet the posts of others. Quite frankly, you aren't owed that level of respect with the way you've treated the IGG backers, your credibility is zero, no one cares what LH Labs' take is on that very accurate post referenced.

The fact is that post comes from a well respected industry veteran, one who certainly feels no real competitive pressures from the likes of unsuccessful ventures such as LH Labs. He speaks the truth, LH Labs should not be spending time and money on trade shows when so much of the IGG funded campaign products remain unfulfilled. There can be no debate on that, the time, money and other resources of LH Labs need at this point to be solely dedicated to making things right with the IGG backers. The author of that post has a long track record in delivering product, without any crowd funding, thats called proper business planning and execution.

Larry attending CES, yeah, right. CES is a trade oriented show that involves the choosing of importers, distributors, and dealers. There is no such business for LH Labs to conduct right now, maybe not ever again. Don't be delusional about this, no one will believe that LH Labs can actually attend CES and sign on dealers, distributors or importers with the absolutely horrendous track record you have in NOT delivering product. They wouldn't stake their name/reputation on your brand at this point, simple as that. Any opinion to the contrary is spin, or flat out delusional.

LH Labs name is mud, and no amount of trade show attendance, or forum spin, or anything else can do anything to alleviate that problem short of delivering the products promised in the IGG campaigns in short order. You know, those products for which LH Labs gladly received millions of dollars in crowd funding, and then delivered essentially nothing?