[evillamer]

Speaking of funny:
 
Announcing a Summit-fi DAC at a major electronics convention without any production sample/prototype units (no casing, no design sketches, no proper press materials). Just "specs" and a pair of empty hands. It has become a laughing stock for those who covers or buys the summit-fi gear industry.
 
Even Schitt had a production sample yggdrasil when they went to RMAF Canjam.
 
I think only Nvidia or Apple(with Steve Jobs alive) with their marketing clout can pull these kind of "vapour" stuns in the PC/Computer industry and get away with it.

 

[DiscoSmoke]

Paragraphs and Tesla had early production problems and delays.

 

[evillamer]

  Paragraphs and Tesla had early production problems and delays.

 
Difference is that when Tesla had production or design problems, they offered the users free design changes:
 
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/03/shields-up-tesla-model-s-gains-free-titanium-and-aluminum-armor-upgrade/

 

[kawaivpc1]

How does Geek Pulse sound compared to Geek Out, Oppo HA-1, Marantz DAC1, iDSD Micro???

It's retail price is going to be 3k. Does it worth that price?

 

[nudd]

How does Geek Pulse sound compared to Geek Out, Oppo HA-1, Marantz DAC1, iDSD Micro???

It's retail price is going to be 3k. Does it worth that price?

Nobody know what the $3k one sounds like because that's the X Infinity which hasn't been shipped yet?
 
I think Longbowbbs has reviewed the standard Geek Pulse ($999) favourably. As far as sound goes, as currently shipped most people think it is definitely worth the early bird pricing. At $999? I have no idea.
 
Same for the Pulse X infinite. It will probably be equal or better than anything else you could have gotten at the lowest early bird Geek Force price (around $900?), but at $3599? That's pretty crowded territory. I suspect at that price it will have very tough competition. For that sort of price (by the time the Pulse X infinite comes out), it will probably have the Schiit Yggdrasil as competition at 2/3rds the price, and you could plonk the spare change into a $1,000 HPA (maybe even Geek's own HPA!?). This will be a much much much tougher proposition.

 

[vnmslsrbms]

Thing is, at the 1000 mark, there are plenty of capable DACs out there based on the same chip, and yet also boasts a robust feature set.  See Oppo HA-1.  I have the Oppo, and am waiting on the Vi DAC Tube that I backed a few months ago.  The 3000 plus tier has lots of good products too.  It's a tough world out there, and right now Geek stuff is pretty set up to fail.  The expectations are so high (thanks to their hyperbolic marketing), and their initial products have been struggling out the gate.  Hopefully they iron everything out.  A very easy comparison for the SE version (which is too rich for my blood) is the W4S DAC2 DSD SE.  However it's been around for a little while already, and the Pulse SE well is still in the incubator.  

 

[evillamer]

I don't think a dac with dual es9018k2m or es9018aq2m with cheap op amp output stage can beat any single es9018S(stereo mode) with discrete analog output stage. Assuming both are using similar femto grade clocks.

ES9018s in stereo mode should be superior to dual ES9018AQ2M basing on internal diagram. 8 x dac(4 per channel) vs 2 per channel for aq2m.

 

[pedalhead]

I don't think a dac with dual es9018k2m or es9018aq2m with cheap op amp output stage can beat any single es9018S(stereo mode) with discrete analog output stage. Assuming both are using similar femto grade clocks.

ES9018s in stereo mode should be superior to dual ES9018AQ2M basing on internal diagram. 8 x dac(4 per channel) vs 2 per channel for aq2m.

 
I'm a bit of a dummy with this stuff, but was under the impression that the ES9018s was optimised for multi-channel audio. It appears to have a slightly better DNR (133) than the AQ2M (129), but THD is the same and the AQ2M is touted as their "Flagship Sabre Stereo DAC".  Is there something else in the ES9018s that makes it a better option?  Cheers.

 

[evillamer]

 

I don't think a dac with dual es9018k2m or es9018aq2m with cheap op amp output stage can beat any single es9018S(stereo mode) with discrete analog output stage. Assuming both are using similar femto grade clocks.

ES9018s in stereo mode should be superior to dual ES9018AQ2M basing on internal diagram. 8 x dac(4 per channel) vs 2 per channel for aq2m.

 
I'm a bit of a dummy with this stuff, but was under the impression that the ES9018s was optimised for multi-channel audio. It appears to have a slightly better DNR (133) than the AQ2M (129), but THD is the same and the AQ2M is touted as their "Flagship Sabre Stereo DAC".  Is there something else in the ES9018s that makes it a better option?  Cheers.

 
AQ2M is Flagship yes, but for MOBILE applications, notice the omission of highest performance for Sabre-2M
 
http://www.esstech.com/?p=products_DAC
 
ES9018AQ2M (Mobile SABRE-2M)
"targeted for audiophile-grade portable applications like HiFi mobile phones and digital music players, consumer applications like USB DACs and A/V receivers, computing applications like gaming PCs and motherboards, as well as professional applications like digital audio workstations."
 
ES9018S: (SABRE³²⁾
 
"the world’s highest performance 32-bit and 24-bit audio D/A converter solutions"
"targeted for consumer applications such as Blu-ray players, audio pre-amplifiers, A/V receivers and professional applications such as recording systems, mixer consoles and digital audio workstations."
"the industry’s highest performance level that will satisfy the most demanding audio enthusiasts."

 

[pedalhead]

Thanks yeah I saw all of that on their web site, but it's basically marketing guff which I think could be interpreted in different ways. I'm wondering if there's anything solid between the chips that could account for a real difference in sound quality (assuming similar implementations). I suspect the answer (if there is one) would be more technical than I could understand, but I do wonder whether one really is so much better than the other...

 

[evillamer]

ES9018S:
Hyperstream DAC x 8
Dynamic Matching x 8

ES9018K2M (AQ2M is similar except for separated power lines)
Hyperstream DAC x 2
Dynamic Matching x 2
 
 
In layman terms:
ES9018S is a 8 core processor in one chip
ES9018K2M(AQ2M) is a 2 core processor in one chip
so if you have dual ES9018K2M(or AQ2M), you have total of 4 core processor in two chips.
 
So in terms of processing power, one ES9018S has 4 times more calculation power than single es9018k2m. Sigma Delta dacs are essentially "powerful calculators".

 

[vnmslsrbms]

Earlier noted by Larry when making the decision between the two:  
 
Larry Ho wrote:
Es9018K2M actually has few advantage over 'desktop' version.

1. Consume less power and generate less noise around the digital power supply circuit
2. Focus on stereo output instead of let designer join 8 channels into 2 which involved external circuit.
3. Few tweaks that only available in ES9018K2M. (which I can not leak due to NDA)

 
Makes sense to me unless you're going to do different stuff with the 8 channels.  For stereo applications, it does seem like the mobile version is the same.  For Home theater like 7.1, the ES9018S would be the chip of choice right?

Edit: saw that the DNR for mono mode is better for ES9018S.  I don't know man, Larry seemed to like it better.  Partially could be due to cost too?

 

[evillamer]

  Earlier noted by Larry when making the decision between the two:  
 
Larry Ho wrote:
Es9018K2M actually has few advantage over 'desktop' version.

1. Consume less power and generate less noise around the digital power supply circuit
2. Focus on stereo output instead of let designer join 8 channels into 2 which involved external circuit.
3. Few tweaks that only available in ES9018K2M. (which I can not leak due to NDA)

 
Makes sense to me unless you're going to do different stuff with the 8 channels.  For stereo applications, it does seem like the mobile version is the same.  For Home theater like 7.1, the ES9018S would be the chip of choice right?

Edit: saw that the DNR for mono mode is better for ES9018S.  I don't know man, Larry seemed to like it better.  Partially could be due to cost too?

 
Makes sense from a cost sensitive point of view, not from a pure sound quality pov.
If you look at all the high end dacs(>$2K USD) that uses ESSTECH dacs, how many are based off ES9018S and how many are using ES9018K2M?
ES9018K2M = 0
 
and the joke is Vi dac MSRP is ~$4k USD?
 
at $4k USD MSRP, you do expect the use of TOTL components and discrete transistors.

 

[Verloren]

 
Nobody know what the $3k one sounds like because that's the X Infinity which hasn't been shipped yet?
 
I think Longbowbbs has reviewed the standard Geek Pulse ($999) favourably. As far as sound goes, as currently shipped most people think it is definitely worth the early bird pricing. At $999? I have no idea.
 
Same for the Pulse X infinite. It will probably be equal or better than anything else you could have gotten at the lowest early bird Geek Force price (around $900?), but at $3599? That's pretty crowded territory. I suspect at that price it will have very tough competition. For that sort of price (by the time the Pulse X infinite comes out), it will probably have the Schiit Yggdrasil as competition at 2/3rds the price, and you could plonk the spare change into a $1,000 HPA (maybe even Geek's own HPA!?). This will be a much much much tougher proposition.

 
Word from longbowbbs is that his review unit was a XFi.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/687851/geek-pulse-geek-desktop-dac-amp-by-light-harmonics/2685#post_11046893

 

[NinjaHamster]

Yes. It was an Xfi with LPS that he reviewed.